GM halts production on the Chevy Volt

[XJEEPER]

Government Motors announced today that they will temporarily halt the production of the Chevy Volt.

"We needed to maintain proper inventory and make sure that we continued to meet market demand," GM spokesman Chris Lee said in a telephone interview.

I will now interpet this statement........

"We took money from the US Government, screwed the shareholders out their GM stock and are now being forced to produce a car that the America consumer doesn't want, because it is functionally impractical and is not economically feasable to operate.

President Obama has forecasted gasoline prices above $5.00 per gallon in the near future and his energy policy is track to make his prediction come true, at which time, folks may be forced to take some interest in the Volt."

In related news, President Obama has pledged to purchase a Volt in 5 years.....when he is no longer POTUS, thus, doubling the projected 2017 Volt sales numbers.

I submit that he'll be able to take delivery of his new Volt in February, 2013.....if they are still being produced at that time.

 

[Boatwrench]

If I could afford the $40K for the Volt I'd have one.

Much better idea than the Nissan Leaf (sorry Mary).

 

[xcm]

What i dont understand, is why certain people are cheering at the failure of electric cars. I look forward to a future when gasoline isnt the only way to get to work... i obviously drive a jeep, and love my gasoline powered straight 6, BUT I would love an electronic motor that produces similar power, without causing smog and global climate change.

You have to be a moron to cheer when a promising venture into electric cars fail...

As far as the government bailout, etc, thats another extensive subject matter, i find your 'government motors' thing HILARIOUS, i totally see what you did there.

 

[iwannadie]

What i dont understand, is why certain people are cheering at the failure of electric cars. I look forward to a future when gasoline isnt the only way to get to work... i obviously drive a jeep, and love my gasoline powered straight 6, BUT I would love an electronic motor that produces similar power, without causing smog and global climate change.

You have to be a moron to cheer when a promising venture into electric cars fail...

As far as the government bailout, etc, thats another extensive subject matter, i find your 'government motors' thing HILARIOUS, i totally see what you did there.

I'd have to agree, why should we hope that the old school combustion engine is the only type of vehicle power we will ever have? People love to make fun of or hope for failure of any alternative power vehicles.

 

[souske]

No one is cheering the failure of electric cars as a concept. The issue is that battery technology just isnt viable in its current iteration. Also, due to a bass-ackwards energy policy in this country, your electric car will effectively be running on coal or natural gas. The only clean energy available to us is fission, and people are far too stupid to go for that.
Also, not many are fond of the Holier than thou attitude dealt out by prius owners. Despite the fact that the prius is probably the most ecologically destructive car released since the 70's. You really want to reduce your footprint? Get an 80's CRX.

 

[iwannadie]

No one is cheering the failure of electric cars as a concept. The issue is that battery technology just isnt viable in its current iteration. Also, due to a bass-ackwards energy policy in this country, your electric car will effectively be running on coal or natural gas. The only clean energy available to us is fission, and people are far too stupid to go for that.
Also, not many are fond of the Holier than thou attitude dealt out by prius owners. Despite the fact that the prius is probably the most ecologically destructive car released since the 70's. You really want to reduce your footprint? Get an 80's CRX.

How can we improve battery technology without going through the process of improving them?

Producing electricity on a larger scale then pumping that power into a vehicle seems like a more efficient way to do to me compared to self powered vehicles.

Why do people always assume prius drivers are holier than thou type of people? You did clearly say "prius owners" and not "some" or "most". I know a guy who drives a prius and is a total stoner bum, he drives it because he says it saves him money. People can and do drive a prius just for the savings(however perceived they are) and could careless about the environment or what anyone else is driving.

 

[souske]

Well, i guess your right. I didnt take a poll of all prius drivers nationwide. However, where I live, the damn things are everywhere. Always plastered with "coexist", and the depiction of their families as sea turtles, or pairs of sandals, and other such nonsense. The vast majority of their operators have a cell phone welded to one ear, and are deathly afraid of using their turn signals.

Simply producing vehicles does nothing for battery technology. When we finally do find the "magic bullet" for storing electricity, the current crop of hybrid vehicles will be obsolete haz-mat

 

[xcm]

Well, i guess your right. I didnt take a poll of all prius drivers nationwide. However, where I live, the damn things are everywhere. Always plastered with "coexist", and the depiction of their families as sea turtles, or pairs of sandals, and other such nonsense. The vast majority of their operators have a cell phone welded to one ear, and are deathly afraid of using their turn signals.

Simply producing vehicles does nothing for battery technology. When we finally do find the "magic bullet" for storing electricity, the current crop of hybrid vehicles will be obsolete haz-mat

Dont let them coax you into anti-enviromentalism.... environment, politics, etc, are all the same, 2 sides that are completely wrong, with the truth somewhere in between (usually NOT in the middle).

Some of those prius owners are complete liberal faggots, true... and some diesel truck owners are purpously dumping exhaust soot into mountain bikers, and some jeepers do donuts thru pristine meadows, wheel illegally, and leave their trash... you cant bunch people together unfairly like that....

I agree about the prius's being phoney, and ACTUALLY being pretty bad for the enviroment, wasnt the point of the volt that it WASNT a prius? Arent they full electric? ie, NOT A HYBRID? Yet somehow the prius gets dragged in?

Driving a pickup truck, or a suv, does absolutely nothing to curb global suv-ism, at THE VERY LEAST, prius owners are saying with their spending patterns 'we care about MPG'. So do something, or at least quit getting all agro cause someone in a prius's turtle collection rubs you the wrong way...

 

[Darky]

Well, i guess your right. I didnt take a poll of all prius drivers nationwide. However, where I live, the damn things are everywhere. Always plastered with "coexist", and the depiction of their families as sea turtles, or pairs of sandals, and other such nonsense. The vast majority of their operators have a cell phone welded to one ear, and are deathly afraid of using their turn signals.

Simply producing vehicles does nothing for battery technology. When we finally do find the "magic bullet" for storing electricity, the current crop of hybrid vehicles will be obsolete haz-mat

The Volt is actually a pretty nice car, and it make a lot of sense. I got to drive one at a car show and the guy told me to floor it up to the speed limit (50). If I had the cash and it sat 5 instead of 4, I would totally buy one. Good power and after getting beaten on all day, it was still on electric power. It'd done at least 25-30 miles with heavy footed testers behind the wheel.

And you do realize that your stereotype of Prius drivers applies to almost every "category" of driver out there, right? I almost hit a Marine in a Camry because he was too impatient to wait 8 seconds for my old 73 Ford to get past before he pulled out. People talk on the cell incessantly behind the wheel of whatever they're driving. I've seen middle aged women driving 88 Olds Cutlasses on the phone as much teenaged girls behind the wheel of daddy's BMW.

Face it, every other driver on the road is an idiot, they just choose different capsules to transport their idiocy.

 

[XJEEPER]

No one is cheering the failure of electric cars as a concept. The issue is that battery technology just isnt viable in its current iteration. Also, due to a bass-ackwards energy policy in this country, your electric car will effectively be running on coal or natural gas. The only clean energy available to us is fission, and people are far too stupid to go for that.
Also, not many are fond of the Holier than thou attitude dealt out by prius owners. Despite the fact that the prius is probably the most ecologically destructive car released since the 70's. You really want to reduce your footprint? Get an 80's CRX.

:thumbup:

Id love to have a rig that wasnt reliant on petroleum based fuel......and made equal or better power than gasoline and was economical to drive.

For the record, the Volt is rated at 40 miles range in pure electric mode, then the 1.4L gas engine kicks in to drive a generator that powers the drive motors.

 

[AIbandit]

Alternative fuels are great but they should not be forced or subsidized by the Gov.

 

[bjoehandley]

I'd love to have a Volt too, I could do all of my typical driving on just the battery and still have it be fully charged in the morning using the "slow charger" ! The only problem I would have besides price is interior space, it's just too tight on the inside for me. Now that Nissan Leaf is even worse for me, even with the wheel as high as it would go and the seat just as far back and I damn near looked like this

 

[slvmart]

Most EV Fanatics fail to realize how much "Oil" is used in the manufacturing of their vehicles, not to mention batteries. Also, how much power is used, and pollution is created, during the recycling of the same batteries. It's just a "inconvenient truth", to coin a phrase. You have "Leaf" zealots that like to claim that they only use power generated a Co-ops from Solar and Wind. This is all very nice, but delusional. Only about 3% of all power in the US is from Solar and Wind (EIA). Of course, a pure EV has very limited range and is impractical without some form of hydrocarbon based supplement.

I was in San Francisco about 2 weeks ago and they use a lot of Priuses as taxis out there. Problem is, not one of them (that I had the occasion to hire) was running off battery power, they were all running on gas. So what's the point, other than to hype how you use a Prius as a taxi cab ?

As M. Chricton said some time ago, Climate Change "at the time it was Global Warming" is a religion. This may sound remotely familiar, as something similar has been in the news recently. Chricton was a scientist and novelist who wrote The Andromeda Strain and Jurassic Park, amongst many other things. He graduated from Harvard with a MD and taught Anthropology at MIT.

You can go on sites like Yahoo Auto and read how distorted the reporting, by these (specifically Leaf but EV, in general) zealots, can be.

There is no doubt that we need to move towards other forms of fuel, but this needs to be determined by the market place. The market place can best determine what sources are viable and which are not.

The one thing you have to say for Obama, he has paid his supporters back handsomely, with taxpayer funds. Another thing that you can definitely say, that if Obama picks a market segment for investment, then run to a different alternative. He only knows how to pick losers, at the expense of the taxpayer.

 

[tudorXJ5sp]

there has been electric vehicles for close to 100 or so years, technology doesnt seem to be what it should considering the leaps the internal combustion did?

there were better conversions available in the 70's & 80's than now in my opinion. it had to be converted from an existing small car, but used a small engine to power a generator to boost power, or ran on battery power for aprox 20 to 30 miles. the small engines delivered around 100mpg+ in those days.

let me have some fun! why does the hybrid get such horrible fuel mileage? there has been gasoline cars available that got 40+mpg, & some 50+mpg. the old Chevrolet Sprint, had a3 cylinder, & they made an economy version, 57mpg, the standard Sprints got 52mpg or so. the Ford Fiesta got in the upper 40 mpg, the Chevrolet Chevette was close to 40, & the diesel Chevette was around 50mpg, along with the old VW rabbits, & diesel Rabbits, & jettas, lets not forget the Pontiac 6000 & Chevrolet Celebrity available with a diesel, the Renault LeCar, the Ford Fiesta made in the late 70's the Ford Pinto, for that matter, the old Corvair was a 35mpg car back in the early 1960's, also the 1950's Metropolitan got 40+mpg, in the 30's there were cars that delivered 30+ mpg, but these were inefficient cars, & better mileage than todays vehicles, but they polluted more...... I can go on...... for example the Dodge Plymouth Neons of the mid 90's depending on gearing could get 40mpg.

today the govt. tells us that newer cars pollute less, even though they use more gas? how can that be? the energy from 2 gallons to go the same distance as 1 gallon, but use more gas & I am doing better?

look to other countries, there are better cars, better mileage, without all the EPA mandated equipment, smaller more efficient engines & alot better mileage. search for them, they exist made by many different manufactors for other foreign markets.... the Govt just has people believing every thing they read, the cars basically do not exist in the communist state of America, nor do people know whats really out there. if you do not know how to search for something you dont know, look up a foreign country that interests you, then look for cars for sale, & start researching, then research the vehicles you find, good mileage vehicles still exist, just not here in the states.

I am not against other technology, but lets raise the bar, battery technology isnt where it needs to be, solar isnt either, & gas mileage is way off par, based on "economy" vehicles available the last 50 years.

today lead acid batteries have a life of say 5 to 6 years, where 50 years ago, they had batteries with 50-100 year life, they had to be rebuilt every 10 or so years, & didnt convert power as efficiently, but were very durable, look it up if you want, nickel-iron batteries, & I looked up a wiki for those interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93iron_battery they say 20+, but those that have been exposed around the alternative energy scene knows the vintage batteries made 50 to 80 years ago are still working, like the delco batteries, made with the delco light plants.

 

[zr2toxj]

Well my Dad bought one. He's 78 yrs old. He has driven it 3500+ miles and is averaging 115mpg. That would save me a least $80/week in gas. I would buy one. It's got a lot of nice features on it, good quality, good warranties and I like the way it handles. Very nice vehicle.

Chevy has been in contact with him on many occasions. He is corresponding with one of the lead engineers on a regular basis. I'm impressed.

 

[tbburg]

The Volt won't stay in production too long. At 1-2K sales a month(I'm assuming sales will double at some point) the volt won't generate the economies of scale GM would need to keep it in production, even with a government subsidy. Sale price is determined by volume. The fewer you sell, the more each one costs. They planned on 10K the first year, and 50K the second. They're on track to sell 12K. Plant tooling cost per unit will be through the roof. Plant capacity is sitting idle. When you can produce in 3 months all the cars you can sell in six, it's inefficient and, past a point, cost prohibitive to let the plant sit idle the rest of the time, even if you're not paying the workers. The fixed costs of the plant are still there, further raising the cost of each car.
GM might keep the car in production through to the end of it's first generation life cycle, but it's gone at the first re-tooling.

When I first heard about the Volt, I pictured car, electric powered, with a small gen set and a big battery. What ended up on the showroom floor is a Prius with a plug-in option.
Too bad they threw out all the work they did to develop the EV-1. If they had kept up along those lines, they might have something practical and marketable now.

If I could afford the $40K for the Volt I'd have one.

If I could afford 40K for a new car, and I was going to buy a Chevy(unlikely), I'd finance the other 10K and get a base corvette,.. That's just me though.

 

[Darky]

Most EV Fanatics fail to realize how much "Oil" is used in the manufacturing of their vehicles, not to mention batteries. Also, how much power is used, and pollution is created, during the recycling of the same batteries. It's just a "inconvenient truth", to coin a phrase. You have "Leaf" zealots that like to claim that they only use power generated a Co-ops from Solar and Wind. This is all very nice, but delusional. Only about 3% of all power in the US is from Solar and Wind (EIA). Of course, a pure EV has very limited range and is impractical without some form of hydrocarbon based supplement.

I was in San Francisco about 2 weeks ago and they use a lot of Priuses as taxis out there. Problem is, not one of them (that I had the occasion to hire) was running off battery power, they were all running on gas. So what's the point, other than to hype how you use a Prius as a taxi cab ?

As M. Chricton said some time ago, Climate Change "at the time it was Global Warming" is a religion. This may sound remotely familiar, as something similar has been in the news recently. Chricton was a scientist and novelist who wrote The Andromeda Strain and Jurassic Park, amongst many other things. He graduated from Harvard with a MD and taught Anthropology at MIT.

You can go on sites like Yahoo Auto and read how distorted the reporting, by these (specifically Leaf but EV, in general) zealots, can be.

There is no doubt that we need to move towards other forms of fuel, but this needs to be determined by the market place. The market place can best determine what sources are viable and which are not.

The one thing you have to say for Obama, he has paid his supporters back handsomely, with taxpayer funds. Another thing that you can definitely say, that if Obama picks a market segment for investment, then run to a different alternative. He only knows how to pick losers, at the expense of the taxpayer.

I believe you are talking about Michael Crichton, not Chricton. He was a good author.

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the "EV fanatics" simply like the better fuel mileage. My uncle bought a used Prius simply for the mpgs. 50 mpg is 50 mpg. If it used the same or more materials in production, it still saves him money, and that's why he bought it. The San Fran taxis probably use Priuses for the same reason, plus the fact that the more liberal clientele found up there get a warm fuzzy and are more likely to get in a Prius taxi than a Crown Vic. The marketplace is currently accepting of gas/electric hybrids. We get the range we need coupled with a boost to economy.

there has been electric vehicles for close to 100 or so years, technology doesnt seem to be what it should considering the leaps the internal combustion did?

there were better conversions available in the 70's & 80's than now in my opinion. it had to be converted from an existing small car, but used a small engine to power a generator to boost power, or ran on battery power for aprox 20 to 30 miles. the small engines delivered around 100mpg+ in those days.

let me have some fun! why does the hybrid get such horrible fuel mileage? there has been gasoline cars available that got 40+mpg, & some 50+mpg. the old Chevrolet Sprint, had a3 cylinder, & they made an economy version, 57mpg, the standard Sprints got 52mpg or so. the Ford Fiesta got in the upper 40 mpg, the Chevrolet Chevette was close to 40, & the diesel Chevette was around 50mpg, along with the old VW rabbits, & diesel Rabbits, & jettas, lets not forget the Pontiac 6000 & Chevrolet Celebrity available with a diesel, the Renault LeCar, the Ford Fiesta made in the late 70's the Ford Pinto, for that matter, the old Corvair was a 35mpg car back in the early 1960's, also the 1950's Metropolitan got 40+mpg, in the 30's there were cars that delivered 30+ mpg, but these were inefficient cars, & better mileage than todays vehicles, but they polluted more...... I can go on...... for example the Dodge Plymouth Neons of the mid 90's depending on gearing could get 40mpg.

today the govt. tells us that newer cars pollute less, even though they use more gas? how can that be? the energy from 2 gallons to go the same distance as 1 gallon, but use more gas & I am doing better?

look to other countries, there are better cars, better mileage, without all the EPA mandated equipment, smaller more efficient engines & alot better mileage. search for them, they exist made by many different manufactors for other foreign markets.... the Govt just has people believing every thing they read, the cars basically do not exist in the communist state of America, nor do people know whats really out there. if you do not know how to search for something you dont know, look up a foreign country that interests you, then look for cars for sale, & start researching, then research the vehicles you find, good mileage vehicles still exist, just not here in the states.

I am not against other technology, but lets raise the bar, battery technology isnt where it needs to be, solar isnt either, & gas mileage is way off par, based on "economy" vehicles available the last 50 years.

today lead acid batteries have a life of say 5 to 6 years, where 50 years ago, they had batteries with 50-100 year life, they had to be rebuilt every 10 or so years, & didnt convert power as efficiently, but were very durable, look it up if you want, nickel-iron batteries, & I looked up a wiki for those interested. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel–iron_battery they say 20+, but those that have been exposed around the alternative energy scene knows the vintage batteries made 50 to 80 years ago are still working, like the delco batteries, made with the delco light plants.

Yes, technology should be farther than it is, but, we're doing much better today than we were in the 70's and 80's. You say that they could run 20-30 miles on battery with a small motor getting 100mpg? Um, you just described the Volt. Big difference though, the Volt is considerably larger and heavier than the types of vehicles they used in the 70s. Why are our hybrids getting such "terrible" mileage? Weight. The marketplace demands a car that will comfortably fit the driver and a couple passengers, while being reasonably quiet and being able to easily do 75-80 mph. Now, look back at your list and tell me: which of those cars fit that bill. I'm 6'2", 270lbs, which of thoe vehicles would I be able to drive while hauling my wife and 3 kids? Which would I be comfortable driving and talking to my wife?

Also, where are you getting your numbers? EPA estimates change. Back in 82, Chevy marketed a standard cab short bed C10 with a small block V8 and claimed 31mpgs or so with it. Do we believe that number? I sure don't. The 100mpg carburetor doesn't exist.

Too bad they threw out all the work they did to develop the EV-1. If they had kept up along those lines, they might have something practical and marketable now.

If I could afford 40K for a new car, and I was going to buy a Chevy(unlikely), I'd finance the other 10K and get a base corvette,.. That's just me though.

The EV1 might've been able to evolve into something useful. Mix it with lithium ion batteries and it could've been highly efficient. But wasn't it also very small and only a 2 seater? That's the problem with so many earlier attempts at efficiency...the vehicles lost practicality.

As far as finding a $50k Vette....good luck. The Chevy dealer I used to work for didn't keep any around for less than 60-65...and that was the base model! . Convertibles ran around $70. $5k of that price was a non-negotiable dealer market adjustment. In the month I was there, I think I only saw one Vette sold, and it was a special ordered Z06.

 

[MT Mike]

As far as finding a $50k Vette....good luck. The Chevy dealer I used to work for didn't keep any around for less than 60-65...and that was the base model! . Convertibles ran around $70. $5k of that price was a non-negotiable dealer market adjustment. In the month I was there, I think I only saw one Vette sold, and it was a special ordered Z06.

Your wealth of dealership experience is simply staggering. :worship:

 

[Darky]

Your wealth of dealership experience is simply staggering. :worship:

I didn't claim expertise...The dealer I worked for was also kind of skeezy, hence the one month time frame. I did however learn a lot about the tricks they try to pull on people...

 

[tbburg]

The EV1 might've been able to evolve into something useful. Mix it with lithium ion batteries and it could've been highly efficient. But wasn't it also very small and only a 2 seater? That's the problem with so many earlier attempts at efficiency...the vehicles lost practicality.

Yeah, the EV-1 was a 2-seater, but so is a Miata. As limited as it was practicality wise, the people who got them liked them, even to the point of trying to sue GM into letting them keep the cars after the leases were up. Still:
First generation in 1996, 2nd gen in '99,.. leases up and cars returned in '02. If they kept at it, 3nd gen in '03/'05, 4th gen in 08/10, what would they have in the lineup today?

As far as finding a $50k Vette....good luck.

No idea what retail markup is,.. but:
50K Vette?