• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Denver Electrician

Starboard M

NAXJA Member
NAXJA Member
Location
Lafayette, CA
I am finally at a spot where I would like my welder hooked up in my detached garage, and am in need of an electrician.


Garage is detached from the house, off the alley in the back of the house. Its about a 30' span from the panel to the garage.


I would have no issues running 120, but this will be 220 for the welder, and that much power scares me.




Is anyone here an electrician that wants to do some side work, or know a buddy who is? I would rather give my money and beer to someone on NAXJA than some random I find on google.

I live in Denver. I am willing to help, can do just about everything but hooking the wires up to the panel.
 
It probably doesn't matter but i'm on lunch and feel like sharing.

If you are ok doing a 120v feed then 240v is just as simple. This is simply for information and I am by no means a certified electrician, but have a fair amount of practical experience and, I did sleep at a holiday inn express last night :D

240 residential is nothing more than (2) 120v feeds from opposite sides of the breaker box and the common.

The lines coming from your meter to the breaker box has 3 parts; L1 (120v), L2 (120v), then a common return. Common and ground are, for all intents an purposes, one in the same. Common is the 3rd line coming from the pole, and ground, goes to ground usually through a water pipe or a rod driven in the ground. They are connected together in the breaker box to equalize everything.

The breaker box is usually set up one of 2 ways; Breakers on one side are L1 and breakers on the other are L2, OR, every other breaker is opposing lines. L1,L2,L1,L2 etc..

To wire 110 you connect the black wire to a breaker, the white to common right? So, to get 240 you are simply adding another hot from the opposing line.

Typical 30 amp 240v wiring is color coded black, red and green or white and sometimes a copper ground wire.
To get 240 you simply connect black to a L1 breaker, red to a L2 breaker and green or white to common, and copper to ground if required.

So easy a caveman...errr.. well you know. :jester:
 
That post by Digger is full of miss information (Though he is close in the concept). Please do not follow that advice if you will do this work yourself and do a little more research. With that said, I agree that if you are comfortable doing 120, 240 is no more difficult or dangerous tho the fact that such comments are being made may indicate that playing it safe is a good idea. I would be happy to answer any specif questions you have

This stuff does kill people and burn down structures and simply is not worth it if you are not knowledgeable/experienced
 
Last edited:
If you don't have a sub panel in your garage I would look into installing one now.Ask when you have a electrician come to look at doing your 220 for your welder.I ran a 100 amp service to my garage.This lets me run power for lights and other stuff like air compressor and cooling.Also put a frig in there.But you need to know if the main panel can handle this.So make sure you ask a PRO.My house was built with a 200 amp service just for this reason.
 
I agree with what appears to have been your 15,000th post, Scottmcneal. 240V Feeders from your main service panel to a small, 125A, 8-12 space Subpanel with at least a 60A Main breaker in it (depending on what your existing service panel will allow for). A 240V sub (and the breakers) should not be much more than $100ish to purchase and just about as much work as a single 240V branch circuit so it is the way to go and will provide protection at both ends. Plus you will be able to add lighting and 120V circuits to your garage if you want.
 
Last edited:
House was built in 1923, electrical panel was upgraded sometime in the last ten years.

Power comes from the alley, to the back of the house, and back to the garage which is off the alley.
Currently has a 15 amp breaker, which powers some small lights and the garage door opener.



Garage is a bit of a cluster ****. Its a single car garage, with a "single car" carport built off the side. Carport has a electric garage door opener.




I would love to tear down this terrible thing, and rebuild from scratch, so this power addition is, right now, a temporary fix for power.
Off the box, to the garage to power a single outlet in the garage. Simple, right?
 
Just ask all kinds of things about it.Ask him if it would be wise to maybe install a SMALL sub panel in that little garage.This would let you have more power out there if needed at a small extra cost one would think.

15 amp isn't much and you say it is 30' from the house too.Think heat in the winter when working on your cars and jeep.lol
 
I would love to tear down this terrible thing, and rebuild from scratch, so this power addition is, right now, a temporary fix for power.
Off the box, to the garage to power a single outlet in the garage. Simple, right?
Not zactly.

The Jursidiction Having Authority adopts and amends the electrical code of their choice, and makes it law. In your case, that would be the City of Denver. Looking for a licensed, bonded, and insured electrician is a good first step.

Past that, running a "small" 220V is false economy. It is likely you will still have to take out the 120V line, and install a sub panel in the garage. Depending on the JHA, you may be required to install GFCI protection for cord and plug equipment, while dedicated outlets may not need that protection.

In any case, electrical panels are like tires and engines, never big enough. :)
 
Ok. My bad. What I typed is what was briefly taught to me by who I was told was an electrician.


Mods, please delete it if it is incorrect. I'll stick to automotive advice.

My apologies.
 
Ok. My bad. What I typed is what was briefly taught to me by who I was told was an electrician..

Digger, I think my response may have been bit ass-ish. What you said was fairly correct in regards to expressing the difference between 120 and 240...there was just a few incorrect assertions that could have created an unsafe condition...then again, anybody installing an electrical circuit based off a single :NAXJA: post prolly gets whatever comes to 'em! :roll:
 
Agreed that it's pretty easy... your color codes and a few other things were off though.

Color codes:
white = always neutral. If you use it as a hot feed, you HAVE to permanently (tape, sharpie, paint) re-color-code it at the ends to some color off the hot feed list, usually black, red, or blue.
bare wire, green wire, green/yellow striped wire = always ground. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Almost anything else = hot. Typically black is a constant hot, red is a second phase or switched hot, anything past that that isn't on the neutral/ground list is fair game. Light colors are generally avoided, too similar to white. Often you'll see red and black as travelers (one or the other will always be hot, but not both) for a 3 way switch setup but that's not relevant in this case.

Breakers:
for a single phase 120v circuit, just use regular single breakers or those funky tandem breakers that let you install a second circuit if you don't have any spare slots in the panel. NEC is getting more stringent these days, almost everything in a house is going to end up being either AFCI or GFCI and almost everything in a garage will end up being GFCI.
for a dual phase (actually just both sides of a splitphase resi power feed) 240V circuit, you HAVE to use a special tandem breaker with the actuator handles tied together with a bar. What this does is cause an overload on either hot feed that trips its breaker to automatically trip the other hot feed breaker as well for safety. It also keeps you from turning off one breaker to work on the circuit, without realizing that the other goes the same place, and frying yourself.

Almost every (I can't think of any off the top of my head) breaker panel these days will have alternating feeds set up - so going down one side of the panel, breakers 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 etc will be on one phase, while breakers 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 etc will be on the other*. What this means is that when you plug in a tandem breaker for a 240V circuit, you automatically get the right setup with each breaker fed off a separate phase.

Other stuff -
- make sure you use low enough gauge wire. Look up the conductor ratings yourself, I forget what they are aside from the usual 15/20 amp stuff.
- cables are required to be fastened to something within 6" of every box, and every x feet (I forget, I usually go overboard and staple every foot or so) between that. Inside walls, stay as close to the center of the side of the studs as you can, if you're less than 1.25"-1.5" or so from either side you are required to put a nail blocking plate across the stud where the cable passes through. Going across open rafters or studs, you are supposed to put a furring strip down before stapling the cable down to avoid people hanging stuff on the cable itself.
- always fasten the box securely to the wall or framing, even if using conduit.
- always use proper knockout cable clamps.

I like to put a label over each outlet (at least in shops/basements/garages etc) that indicates which breaker or circuit name at the panel feeds it to make my life easier.

* some panels number the breakers on one column/side as odd numbers and the ones on the other side as even numbers. In this case breakers 1, 5, 9, 13 etc in one side are on one phase, breakers 3, 7, 11, etc are on the other phase, and in the other side of the panel, breakers 2, 6, 10, 14, etc are on one phase and breakers 4, 8, 12, etc are on the other. The same rule still applies that any breaker and the ones above/below it will automatically be on opposite phases, however, so you can just plug in a tandem breaker and expect to get 240V from its two hots.
 
Last edited:
Digger, I think my response may have been bit ass-ish. :roll:
nonsense.

I call out those who post bad info about auto repair. wrong is wrong, especially with electrical work.

The guy I speak of is questionable, though reliable. He, I'm sure, gave me abbreviated instruction enough not to kill myself.

I simply should not have posted what I did.
 
Back
Top