CRASH / GOATMAN: More Dana 44 questions

[cracker]

What kind of JJ's are you using on the axle UCA mounts? If they're Currie, it's going to be REALLY difficult to install them with the JJ case welded to the axle.

Paul

Paul you got me here. I am assuming by JJ you mean Johnny Joint. Yes they are Currie Enterprises items BUT I purchased them from Claytons. They come with the Clayton's brackets. When I discussed the details of the Johnny Joints with Claytons, I was informed that they will be perfect with my UCA BUT I would have to enlarge the UCA bolt holes to 7/16" so the Johnny Joint bolt would go through. Now I have not gone out to the back and verified that with my calipers by measuring the width of the Johnny Joint rotating portion and crawling under my Jeep and checking the inner width of my UCA.

Why are you saying it would be difficult? The Johnny Joint housing has to be welded to the axle first. You would never want to heat up the poly bushings from a weld.

On a completely other note, does someone other than Currie Make 'Johnny Joints'? I am sure there are copies out there but I thought it was a Currie item.

 

[Goatman]

I agree with Paul, it's going to be difficult to put the johnny joints together with them already welded to the housing. I take mine apart and put them together in a vice, and then it still isn't easy. I know I'm a sarcastic SOB, but those mounts give me one more reason to not like the Clayton stuff.

I think you're going to find that it would be much easier to use boxed tubing for the UCA mounts and make the arm with the JJ on the end of it, similar to the lower arms and mounts, than it's going to be to have to fight assembling those JJ's that are welded to the housing. It should be simple to mount the JJ to your existing upper arms, just cut off the U shaped axle side bracket and weld on the JJ sleeve. Look at the pic of Jes's upper arm mount earlier in this thread, or check mine out.

You've already done it, so it probably isn't a big enough deal to warrent doing over (even though I would), so see how it works. Definitely have a ball joint press to use to assemble those JJ's in the uppers.

Oh, and Rubicon Express also makes johnny joints, in fact I think they are a better design than the Curries.....especially doing what you're doing. The Currie joint uses a big washer and a snap ring to hold the joint together, and you have to squeeze it to get the preload on the bushing and then put in the snap ring. The RE joints are threaded, so the joint is assembled and the pre-load set by simply tightening the threaded washer. As the joint wears, the RE can be tightened more, while the Currie must be taken apart and reassembled using a thicker washer, which they can provide.

 

[Paul S]

Paul you got me here. I am assuming by JJ you mean Johnny Joint. Yes they are Currie Enterprises items BUT I purchased them from Claytons. They come with the Clayton's brackets. When I discussed the details of the Johnny Joints with Claytons, I was informed that they will be perfect with my UCA BUT I would have to enlarge the UCA bolt holes to 7/16" so the Johnny Joint bolt would go through. Now I have not gone out to the back and verified that with my calipers by measuring the width of the Johnny Joint rotating portion and crawling under my Jeep and checking the inner width of my UCA.

Why are you saying it would be difficult? The Johnny Joint housing has to be welded to the axle first. You would never want to heat up the poly bushings from a weld.

On a completely other note, does someone other than Currie Make 'Johnny Joints'? I am sure there are copies out there but I thought it was a Currie item.

My concern is simply trying to assemble the JJ (Johney Joint) on the axle. It takes some work to press the bushings in far enough to get the washer & snap ring on. My JJ's are welded to my control arms, which allows me to take them out put them together with a press. It's hard enough this way, I wouldn't want to try & put them together on the axle.
Rubicon has their own version of a JJ, which I believe would go together easier, but other than the difficulty of assembly, I prefer the Currie JJ's.

Paul

 

[TrailHunter]

Just use a bolt throught the eye of the ball with washers at each end pressing on large sockets leaving enough room to slide the snap ring in. It's not that big of a deal. It's just a matter of convenience or you can use a ball joint press like someone said. Waaa, $20 at HF.

 

[cracker]

Paul, now I understand what you are saying (I really need to wake up). You are referring to how difficult it is to assemble the Johnny Joint. I see now. YES it is a pain in the ass. I put one together already and it was doable but a pain. The C-Clip does not like to go in so easily.



Goat, now you tell me! J Just kidding. I didn’t realize that is what some of you did with the Johnny Joints (install them onto the UCA). It makes sense. I think I’ve gone a little too far to go back and change it now. I am freaking out because time is ticking and I need to be on the road next Thursday morning for the Rubicon so I am going to leave it for now.



I do like how beefy your track bar mount is. I need to redesign my idea I have in my head to make it beefier after looking at yours. You had mentioned the JKS bracket but your looks ten times stronger than the JKS.

Any chance the JKS design will be beffy enough or should I find a happy medium between your and the JKS?

 

[Paul S]

The JKS TB mount is plenty beefy, but it's fairly short. If you're using flat-top knuckles it's not going to line-up your TB & draglink (TB will be too steep), unless you drop the frame TB mount way down, which will cause other problems.

Paul

 

[Goatman]

Exactly. Mine is so high above the axle tube so it will line up with the drag link.

Another benefit of the track bar axle mount being raised up higher is that it raises the roll center, which can help handling on lifted rigs like ours.

 

[cracker]

I had already planned to make the trackbar bracket pretty high for the high steer and to make it parallel to the drag link. I just saw the 'overkill' beef on Goats brackets and the less beef on the JKS bracket and was wondering if the JKS was strong enough. I will fab something in between. It won't be pretty but it'll do the job (I hope). I am actually going to make a tower 'too' tall so when I install the axle I can find out where the track bar needs to be and I will cut off all the excess above it. I am fighting bump steer really bad now and completely understand how important the drag link and track bar alignment is. My Jeep handles like shi* now and I want it to get a lot better.

Thanks

Cracker

 

[cracker]

Well it is late Wed night and we have called it an evening. I've got most of the welding done (even though it is pretty ugly welds). I Do have all the major brackets on the axle now. Tomorrow I will install the knuckles and the shafts and start painting (after a little grinding).

I got the track bar bracket started. I am waiting to actually place it onto the vehicle before I complete it. I will line up my track bar with my drag link, drill a hole in my tower, and cut off all the excess above it and cap it with a plate. I know it looks cheesy but it is all out of 1/4" plate and has the crap welded out it. It is a tad close to the coil but I think it will be fine.

 

[cracker]

Well, after a really long weekend I actually have it under the vehicle. It seems to have gone on fine but I still have more work to do.

I've got three days until the the Rubicon and I still need stuff (proper high-steer brackets and a tie rod/drag link). Hopefully www.partsmikeparts.com will NEXT DAY the necessary parts and on Wed I can get an oil change and an alignment. With my luck there will be something wrong witht the ARB or the axle itself but I am on a mission to get there and be done with this project.

After putting the three Johnny Joints together, I can actually say, they are pretty easy to put together once I figured out a method. I used a C-Clamp and two sockets and by compressing the a very large socket (the outer shell diameter) and a smaller socket ( about a 19mm) on each side of the joint, one can compress the joint enough to get the c-clip to pop right in.

I still neet to lengthen my LCA about an inch (which will rotate my diff down to where it needs to be), hook the ARB airline up to the compressor, install the front driveshaft, put on my new Warn diff guard, drill a hole where I want my track bar to go and install (I already shortened my track bar and put a Johnny Joint on it), fill the diff with fluid, and brush paint the axle (if I have time). So far, moving it in the driveway, all my creaking in the front is gone and I can actually STOP! I know, it is the simple things in life that make us happy.

It is late and I know the picture sucks but here the Jeep sleeps. 8" Alcan's with 1" JKS boomerang shackles and long arm front suspension with 8" skyjacker coils with 3/4" spacer. Oh yeah, 35" BFG MTs.

It's late, I'm out.

-Cracker

 

[BrettM]

9" lift on 35s?! hope we don't have to flip you upright on the rubicon

 

[cracker]

9" lift on 35s?! hope we don't have to flip you upright on the rubicon

Me too!!! I might take out the 3/4" spacers in the front but otherwise I'll be where I am at. The coils haven't settled yet (never mind being driven on). I used to be at 7" with 33s (with really soft front coils). I think Gotaman has the same coils (Skyjacker 8") with one of his coils cut out. I am hoping I'll be okay, for everyone's sake. :|

 

[cracker]

Well. It is late and my project came to a halt over enlarging the tapered hole on the pitman arm. Becasue of it I cannot go to the Rubicon. It was supposed to come in with my steering stuff but it was mis picked. As I said on the SoCal post, this might be a blessing in disguise. I really need to figure our all the bugs before taking it out on a long trip. I definitly will get it aligned the second I get the reamer for the pitman arm.

Here is the latest pic (and again please excuse my horible paint job). My latest thoughts is to get a straight pipe for my track bar but I have no idea if it will hit the way it is. I will take it to my wifes warehouse later this week and flex the crap out of it with a fork lift. The vehicle does sit a little lower on the drivers side (any thoughts?).

-Cracker

 

[CRASH]

You can safely move the trackbar on the axle side down. It's too high, adding to the stress of the mount. The crossbolt should be directly behind the tie rod.

 

[Paul S]

Sunds like you're ok with missing the 'Con, but if you do still want to go, I could ream your pitman arm or loan you my spare.

Paul

 

[cracker]

Sunds like you're ok with missing the 'Con, but if you do still want to go, I could ream your pitman arm or loan you my spare.

Paul

Thank you for the offer. I have accepted that I cannot go. As I said earlier I want to do a small run somewhere (Rowher probably) and test it and get it aligned before I go on a long trip. I still need to get my steering stablizer installed (easy). I don't want to be the guy with the major SIMPLE mechanical that holds everyone up when I could have tested it. Instead, my wife wants to still 'spend time together' this weekend (she was going to go tho the 'Con) so we will be camping somewhere this weekend in central Cal.

Thank you again.
-Avery

 

[cracker]

You can safely move the trackbar on the axle side down. It's too high, adding to the stress of the mount. The crossbolt should be directly behind the tie rod.

It is pretty much parallel with the draglink the way it is. Remember I do not have a stock pitman arm (yet). When I get the stock pitman arm I will lower the trackbar a tad. I should have the reamer to install the drag link tomorrow. I know you guys will be on the 'Con but I will post a pic when it is done.

I noticed Goats is similar but his drag link mounts on top of his tie rod.

Anyone have an extra stock pitman arm in the area (Pasadena, CA)?

-Avery

 

[cracker]

Well, a couple of hours after everyone left for the Rubicon, I actually finished the axle project (except for some painting). I even had it aligned. It seems to drive fine. I tested it slowly and hit as many bumps as possible hopeing for the best and expecting the worst but it seemed fine. I even worked my way up to the freeway and hit 75 (I know, too fast for a lifted XJ ) and it was fine.


I do agree with BrettM that it is a little tall. I think the rear leafs are too much for my taste and I would like to get a 6" leaf pack that might not ride as stiff as my 8" Alcans. The only reason I put the 3/4" spacer in the front coils was to TRY to make it close to level with the rear. So with a 6" leaf pack and a strait 8" coil I think I will be happy. I never thought I would say this but I need to lower my xj 2" in the rear and 3/4" in the front.

I took it to my wife's office today to flex it out with a fork lift to make sure nothing touched and everything was okay. After checking it out I get about 30" of lift on one tire with the three others on the ground. (Is this about what others get?) I think I had one to two more inches of height (31 - 32") with the 7" Tera Flex front end with a 2.5" ProComp leaf pack, 2" of blocks and 1" lift shackle. I think it is the lack of flex from my leaf pack that causes the loss in articulation. The only real thing I had to do was re-locate and zip tie my axle breather and ARB air line.

Here are some pics. I know the steering stabilizer' set up is cheesy (and potentially defeats the purpose of high steer) but it is temporary until I get the final position of the drag link (a future new stock XJ pitman arm) and track bar (I will lower it when I get the new pitman arm). I am hoping to have a better approach with better clearance with the 'final' set up for the steering stabilizer.

Here are my results from my alignment. I would love someone (BrettM, Crash, Goat, Jes, PaulS, etc.) to look at these and let me know if I should change anything. The guy who did the alignment was really happy with the results but all I do is look at the piece of paper and scratch my nuts.

IF anyone is curious about my current angles (Crash, per your comment earlier) here is a pic with some lines to show the current set up.

I think it looks pretty good and I don't get any noticable bump steer.

-Cracker

 

[BrettM]

cool! I'll be heading for the Con in 6 hours

your caster is a bit low, most like it at 5-7 degrees, mine's at 6.

 

[Clean Racing]

Avery.

The alignment looks good, just like brett said i would try to get the caster back up to the 5~6* level... camber and toe look good..the high steer looks pretty good too...

Scott.