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Acting the fool pictures

Rev Den

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Plainfield, IL
Something is on my mind, recently a thread in the Colorado chapter pointed it out, and Dr Moab and I had a difference in opinion. I am curious what you all think about pictures that are posted up here where the subject is:

Illegally wheeling

"Posing" with a tire on a light post, snow plow pile etc.

Doing burnouts on a public road.

Anything else blatantly unsafe, etc.

My thought is that when these pictures are posted that we as a club should point out to the poster that what they are doing is frowned upon by us and that they really need to think a little more. Of course I always did not think that way, and when younger before I was shown the path, I used to do the same crap. I like to think that I am smarter now mainly due to people like us pointing out that what I was doing, and not thinking about, was wrong. Usually there is a long line of people (usually users) to slap the poster on the back and compliment them.

What do you all think?

BTW - I love the good Dr., lets keep this discussion civil and on track.

Rev
 
In blatant issues it should be dogged on. Posting stupid pics on a public forum will come back to bite this community in the butt.
 
Like I said over there, It was never my intention to attack you. It was more that what you said brought to light a problem that I feel has been building for a long time. Here is my take on things. Basically its this.

The Green jerks have basically turned all of us into a bunch of wussies.

Every time the pro-environment movement says "jump" the 4wd community says "how high" I think this is the wrong way to go about things. We should be stronger then that, stand up, take active rolls in keeping our sport they way it used to be.

In fact I see the invention of the modern 4wd, the extreme rigs, rock buggies and such as a response to trails getting harder and harder to find. There used to be so many places you could go in a bone stock 4x4 and so many of those places are gone that it has pushed people into more concentrated areas, more abuse of trails that are out there, 4x4 parks that have been developed which in turn has led to bigger and bigger rigs to handle tougher and tougher trails. If all 4x4 parks had to offer was a scenic tour down a dirt road no one would go.

If the 4x4, boat, ATV community would have stood up to the green movement with money, legal actions and activism like the green jerks did, driving on a light post wouldn't be an issue.

I guess what I am trying to say is I am sick and damn tired of walking, or driving on eggshells to keep some green group from looking down on me.

Whatever happened to a little harmless fun?
 
I have to agree with Rev. I doubt any of us were immune to doing stupid things when we were young. (or occasionally now) Fortunately somebody probably helped us to overcome our lack of experience.

I think we should bring things to peoples attention, it is part of our responsibility to premote responsible wheeling. The tone we do it in will make the difference. If we want to help someone outright bashing is not going to help. If they decide to get billegerant there is not much that can be done.

Glen

EDIT: Others posted while I was composing mine. Harmless fun is fine but guidance is still required.
 
Ben H said:
In blatant issues it should be dogged on. Posting stupid pics on a public forum will come back to bite this community in the butt.
See right there is what I am talking about. It SHOULDN'T have to come back and bite us in the butt. We need to stand up and take our sport back instead of bowing down to all the a$$holes who want to shut our sport down through rowdy activism of our own.
 
Acting the fool AND posting pics will eventually get you a spot on a wall of shame somewhere...

btw...

anyone know whatever happened to the tard in the WRX on the NASIOC forums?

The one that crashed into a house?

one the funniest net threads besides the Wenzel debacle...
 
One thing I should clarify how I feel about this.

I find a huge huge difference between a picture of a guy parked on a light post and a guy doing something stupid off-road somewhere.

If you are out tearing up some pristine meadow somewhere, take pictures of it and post that on the net, you should have your hooheys cut off and shoved down your throat.
 
DrMoab said:
See right there is what I am talking about. It SHOULDN'T have to come back and bite us in the butt. We need to stand up and take our sport back instead of bowing down to all the a$$holes who want to shut our sport down through rowdy activism of our own.

Unfortunately all of the prime wheeling spots are owned by someone. private or government, who doesn't want their land overly damaged. The private owners are attempting to protect the property values while providing use a location to enjoy our sport. The government is mandated to protect the land for all who wish to use it.

It comes down to this, perception is reality. If the environmentalists can use our own photos against us, we loose.

"Look at this, I can't imagine what they are doing when we cant see them."
 
I think maybe a bigger question. Did he have permission to be there and do that? If so looks great man. If not , then damnit go ask if the owner minds you guys posing. I agree with Dr that I hate pussy footing around, but bottom line is if you dont own it m find the guy that does. I personally get pretty tired of everyone trying to save us. I understand we need a collective voice to secure our future use of public lands, but man ask the guy before you dog the hell out of him for posing somewhere.
 
http://www.delalbright.com/Articles/quills.htm
Del Albright said:
No more Mr. Nice Guy. I've had it! Our recreation is in serous jeopardy, I don't care what you ride. Whether a dirt bike, buggy, 4wd, ATV, PWC, sled, or wake skates behind a boat, we are in trouble.

I am writing this as me, Del. This is from my guts telling me we had better change the way we're doing business, or we're gonna lose our motors. I am getting firmer and stauncher in my positions on land use and access. But we need an army of people getting in the game so our voice can be heard.

Now I'm not playing Chicken Little here, either. The sky is not falling. But from my experience around the continent, the atmosphere is sure shaky. Tune in here and see what I think we need to do before it's just any further down the road, too late.

To make a long, bring tears to your eyes, story short, this is the gist of the problem:

1. Our image is so tainted we're an easy target for bad press and closures due to the few yeh-hoos and dip-wads out there.

2. We deserve some of the bad press – we are not policing our own.


3. By not showing up and speaking out as much as our opponents, we are the vast minority, under dog, get stepped on groups.

4. We are a HUGE army waiting for the call to help manage our public lands, but we're not there in mass.

5. We wait until the gate is up before we ask for help or get involved.

Now with that in mind, I have some fixes. If you've read this far, I am HOPEFUL that you will do more than read. ACT. Act now. Get your friends to act. Do not take my gut instinct, based on 22 years in this business, lightly. Stand up and quit rolling over! Get aggressive and assertive about your recreation. Here's how in simple terms:

FIRST: Let's clean up our web sites and bulletin boards where some people think they can talk like inmates and make us look like idiots. Clean them up now. Change the rules of posts if you're a moderator. Get rid of the idiot behavior and let's start showing some responsibility towards shaping our image. If you're posting to BBS’s, then post like an adult. Get a private list somewhere if you need to launch out; but not where our opponents can see you.

SECOND: if you're not a member of EVERYTHING you can afford to be, then you're not in the game all the way. JOIN every local, state, and regional organization you can. And JOIN BlueRibbon Coalition. It is through membership that we build strength and find money to fight the battles.

THIRD: Be an advocate for your sport. Include others. Do ride alongs. Get political. Do not think you can let someone else do it for you. Get some training. Get some help. Do whatever it takes, but do it now, before YOUR gate goes up. Get a Trail Patrol or Neighborhood watch started on your trails. Advocate for responsible use; dump the dip-wads.

FOURTH: Set the example in everything you do in your sport. Ride responsibly. Camp responsibly. Drink responsibly. Behave like EVERYONE in the world is watching and evaluating your actions. Have fun, yes. But realize we are threatened like never before. I've never seen so many closures and potential closures on the horizon. I've been at this a long time. Please take heed and act now.

FIFTH: Pick up your pen. That's why I called this article a “Call To Quills” (pens). Pick it up and write a letter. I don't even care to whom you send it. Just start to write. Tell your congressman how you feel about multiple uses of public lands. Tell your Commissioner/Board of Supervisors how you feel about your right to ride responsibly. Tell somebody something. Get your voice out there. Be heard. Be in the game. Tell them you're tired of rolling over and compromising. Tell them you want no net loss of public land riding opportunities. Tell them no more unreasonable compromise that means loss for us.

We are not well-represented when the letters are counted at the end of the day. We have to change that, or just give up the effort. I for one am not ready to roll over or give up any more. I'm in there with teeth barred now.

On the other hand, continue to work with the great land managers who ARE working with us, trying to help us, and seem like they have a balanced approach to their job. Even if you don't get your way every time, do support those land managers who you know are trying and fair. Support those good politicians who believe in giving us a chance to recreate on public lands. And in both cases, where there are bad land managers, or bad politicians, put them in the dip-wad category and work to get them dumped!

Do it now. Do something. Please do not sit by and wait. We can't wait. Emergency closures should be reserved for when management fails. Well, if you're not in the game, then chances are, management will fail. Pick up that quill.

Quoted for truth.
Billy
 
DrMoab said:
I guess what I am trying to say is I am sick and damn tired of walking, or driving on eggshells to keep some green group from looking down on me.

Whatever happened to a little harmless fun?
The way I see it, if they see a pic of this then they take to the forest service and say look this is what they do on public property what do you think they are going to do on the trails, close them down. What the FS person going to think? Oh I know that group, they are fine? I doubt it unless you have a very good relationship with your local FS unit. Reason is cause there are enough idiots doing stupid stuff off-road and making a mess.

But I suppose that once everything is shut down (which is going to happen in the next few years) then you can do whatever you want cause it won't matter.

DrMoab said:
Every time the pro-environment movement says "jump" the 4wd community says "how high" I think this is the wrong way to go about things. We should be stronger then that, stand up, take active rolls in keeping our sport they way it used to be.

I find this interesting, our club hasn't jumped for the local greenie group for a long time. We took their fight to them and we have been very successful in getting the FS on our side and working with us. It didn't happen overnight though it took a long time for the FS to see us as a responsible group. And during that time we had to watch and still do all our activity so we keep our image clean. But cause we do is also why the FS approved and allowed us to open three brand new 5++ trails. It's also the reason they let us run trails in a closed burn area for our yearly event.

Flexing on a light pole? Cops can write tickets for that, not smart. Snowbanks, that a non issue.
 
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If I'm dong a poser pic I'm doing it on my own rocks in my own yard. However with the stupid stuff people post on Utube and myspace and then they are surprised when that lez pic comes back to haunt them at a beauty pageant I gotta wonder how many real brain cells they have.
 
While I'm in agreement that people shouldn't post evidence of themselves doing stupid things ("Videotaping this crime spree was the best idea we ever had!"), there's another side to this that relates to the enviroweenies: they record us.

I've run into exactly this on two separate occasions, and in both cases they were trying to gather evidence for closing areas that were either open- or paid-access. If we're giving them the ammo they want by being idiots when wheeling, then we really have nobody to blame but ourselves. And here's the rub: unless there are specific prohibitions on them recording in a given area, we can't stop them. Period. They're as much within their rights to record us being irresponsible as we are.

Policing our own is key, but every time someone does something stupid and isn't caught for it it only serves to reinforce the idea in the greenies' heads that we're all like them. As much as I hate to say it, there's a minority in this community who have no self-control or consideration for others and they're the ones who are doing more to get access closed down than anyone else. Until there's a behavioural change at a fundamental level in those responsible for this sort of thing, we're basically going to continue handing them the noose they want to put around our necks.
 
DrMoab said:
See right there is what I am talking about. It SHOULDN'T have to come back and bite us in the butt. We need to stand up and take our sport back instead of bowing down to all the a$$holes who want to shut our sport down through rowdy activism of our own.

I understand where you are coming from and agree, but we should not waste our time defending the actions of asshats. Usually their actions are not representative of our sport.
 
DrMoab said:
Like I said over there, It was never my intention to attack you.

And I did not take it as an attack.

posted here so everyone will know that we are all good.

Very good points on all sides here....keep'em coming.

Rev
 
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