Colorado B/S Thread

[DutchVDub]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

You had me until you said EBPV delete. I have a controller that locks up the torque converter and uses the EBPV as an exhaust brake.

I'm perfectly happy with the power output with just the +50 tune, that puts me around 300hp and 550 ft/lb (basically the same as a stock 6.0L, but way more reliable). I've towed significantly heavier than just my jeep on a car trailer and it was plenty. Your 6speed should have 25hp and tq above my auto from the factory. Although admittedly with surge and EGT under control I'd probably run my +75 tune just for the extra passing ability on hills. That would put me in stock 6.4L territory and have an even bigger reliability advantage than over the 6.0L, because quite frankly that 6.4L was a big POS. Part of my wonders if it was a FU to Ford from International for trying to sue them over the 6.0L.

And before the Cummins fan boys start trying to talk their smack, my buddy's 05 Cummins is getting a new turbo (he is going ATS) because his pooped the bed. He was having surging issues before he chipped it, and now its new turbo time. Oh yeah, and he needs a new transmission.

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I've got a PHP Hydra in mine, so I can throw all the tunes I want into it.

I drive it with the 80E setting, but I honestly don't feel any difference (and from what I'm told, should feel a night and day difference from stock).

I'm thinking my injectors, though not that many miles, might be a contributor.

I've pretty well gone through everything else and replaced them, ICP, PCM, etc.

I've thought about taking it to Rockin S, but the cost of the diagnosis might just be worth putting in new injectors and cups.

I buzz test doesn't tell you a whole lot other than if they're hitting. A cylinder contribution test would help, but even that might not fully tell.

 

[1-tonxj]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Anytime you want. I should be around this weekend and all day Monday. I'm home by 4:00 pm during the week. I can move them behind my gate so you can pretty much pick them up whenever.

As a last resort, I could try to load them into my baby truck and meet you on the south side of Denver during my lunch hour during the week.

I can grab them anytime over the weekend just let me know what time works for you ...You can pm the address .

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Hadn't heard of them but its a cool looking setup. I like that you can easily change tunes for each position from such a big library. I'm running a TS 6-Pos chip and I like it a lot. I keep meaning to get in touch with either Tony Wildman or Riffraff Diesel for some revised tunes but the TS tunes work well enough for me that I keep forgetting.

 

[trippled]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Swamps diesel makes junk injectors and has worse customer service. If I ever find that guy who runs their flowbench...

400 hp on a 7.3 would be cool, but dont expect it to last. 7.3s wear out fast on the chip. Most I've checked compression on at 200k that have had a good chip in them are only around 250-300 psi.

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Swamps diesel makes junk injectors and has worse customer service. If I ever find that guy who runs their flowbench...

400 hp on a 7.3 would be cool, but dont expect it to last. 7.3s wear out fast on the chip. Most I've checked compression on at 200k that have had a good chip in them are only around 250-300 psi.

Interesting.

I've heard/seen the exact opposite from many places and several people I've talked to in person.

There are plenty of 7.3's out there that have well over 100k on that exact same setup (though variation of injectors).

Running better injectors and a GTP38R is pretty well known for longevity, pretty much anywhere you look.

Now, once you start getting above 400HP (dual HPOPs, meth injection, T4 turbos, etc.) then things can start becoming issues (the PM pistons for example).

You mention chip. Are you talking chip or actual programmer? Apples and oranges there.

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I have a chip, not a programmer. However, there are a few places that can put reburn different tunes on it as needed. The TS Performance tunes are decent and get the job done but other companies offer better tunes that are more precisely set up for the specific truck. Its simple and it works, and that's how I like things.

400hp is manageable on the 7.3L without going crazy, but not while towing. You'll have no problems running 400hp empty. Once you put the trailer on it you're going to be fighting EGT's like crazy trying to keep it tuned to 400hp. You'll probably be looking at going to a 1.15 A/R turbine housing or even moving up to a T4 setup. You'll need to upgrade the intercooler too, and not just with a 6.0L one either. Luckily you don't have to worry about the torque convertor/transmission on your.

I personally see no need for that much power for my tow pig. If it wasn't for the EGT's and surging I could pull the Jeep up 285 from 470 to Conifer in OD no problem with just the +50 tune. The highest rated factory Cat C7's are only spec'd out for 300hp and they're put in trucks that GVWR a lot higher than our trucks.

 

[trippled]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Chip...programmer same but different. Any power adder really. I only say it tho because I've seen so many trucks plain wore out from programmers. The 7.3s pistons/rings are their weak link.

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I have a chip, not a programmer. However, there are a few places that can put reburn different tunes on it as needed. The TS Performance tunes are decent and get the job done but other companies offer better tunes that are more precisely set up for the specific truck. Its simple and it works, and that's how I like things.

400hp is manageable on the 7.3L without going crazy, but not while towing. You'll have no problems running 400hp empty. Once you put the trailer on it you're going to be fighting EGT's like crazy trying to keep it tuned to 400hp. You'll probably be looking at going to a 1.15 A/R turbine housing or even moving up to a T4 setup. You'll need to upgrade the intercooler too, and not just with a 6.0L one either. Luckily you don't have to worry about the torque convertor/transmission on your.

I personally see no need for that much power for my tow pig. If it wasn't for the EGT's and surging I could pull the Jeep up 285 from 470 to Conifer in OD no problem with just the +50 tune. The highest rated factory Cat C7's are only spec'd out for 300hp and they're put in trucks that GVWR a lot higher than our trucks.

I'd have no intent on setting the thing at a 125HP tune and towing. However, it's also the difference between topping out your stock end, and running normal and having that power when needed. One makes it more comfortable and allows you to relax and not worry about EGT's, surging, etc. It's pretty well seen that the aftermarket injectors help with a 1-3MPG gain as well, and they don't tax your HPOP like the stock AD injectors do.

I've very well aware of the OTR trucks and their specs (Mike and I have talked about this a bunch). I more want to be able to keep speed going up passes, and lower EGT's while doing so. At the top of Floyd hill, doing 55MPH, I can watch my engine temp start to get up there. Vail Pass, Eisienhower, no problem at 55MPH. That being said, I'd like to be able to keep speed at 65-70, and not have to make my engine scream at 2500RPM.

"If it wasn't for the EGT's and surging I could pull the Jeep up 285 from 470 to Conifer in OD no problem with just the +50 tune."

Crow hill or whatever it's called on 285 would kill my truck in 4th gear.

Once again, it comes down to:
- Better MPG (well known and proven with the non-AD injectors)
- Less taxing all around on the system
- Lower EGT's (I've seen quite a few report EGT's of 900-1000 max).

Go check out Euroford's thread on CO4x4 as well, pretty good read.

Chip...programmer same but different. Any power adder really. I only say it tho because I've seen so many trucks plain wore out from programmers. The 7.3s pistons/rings are their weak link.

Chip and programmer are going to work and react completely different.

Banks...chip

PHP Hydro...programmer.

One is a box setup that "works" with any model.

The other has tunes specifically built to your trucks VIN code.

The pistons might be weak...after 400HP.

Completely apples and oranges.

Most people with tuner's also beat on their trucks relentlessly.

A proper tuner =/= less longevity. A proper tune, just like with any performance enhancement, can add efficiencies lost through other means, and so on.

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Yep, same basic goals here. Its not that I need any more power, I just need to get the surging/egt's under control.

Your wicked wheel didn't take care of the surging? Did you just replace the outlet or the entire turbine housing?

The chips have to be burned specifically to your PCM, the only thing I've seen on tuners as far as the VIN goes is to lock it to a specific vehicle. It didn't have anything to do with the tunes themselves.

 

[trippled]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

The only thing they're really doing is adapting to your calibration for your pcm. Is it better? Yes. But you basically achieving the same thing.

And yes, when you've seen enough broken rings and missing ring lands on stock 7.3s I can tell you they are weak.

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Yep, same basic goals here. Its not that I need any more power, I just need to get the surging/egt's under control.

Your wicked wheel didn't take care of the surging? Did you just replace the outlet or the entire turbine housing?

The chips have to be burned specifically to your PCM, the only thing I've seen on tuners as far as the VIN goes is to lock it to a specific vehicle. It didn't have anything to do with the tunes themselves.

My Wicked Wheel 2 did take care of the surging. It would get pretty bad fluttering.

I replaced the outlet and the wheel. If I'm going to spend the money, I'm not going to dick around with the housing.

The chips are burned to your PCM. My programmer isn't. The VIN doesn't lock it to the specific vehicle, but makes sure that the tunes do work to the specific vehicle. When I go to pick out a tune and load it, there is a LOOOOONG list to choose from. They're the same tunes over and over, but you have to choose the one that applies to your VIN code, as not all trucks are the same.

The only thing specific to my programmer, is the registration I did. The PHP Hydra is a full board that connects to your PCM, is easily removable, and I have a USB cord that I can connect to with it. Some of their more advanced systems allow for you to go way above and beyond what I want to do, being able to build you own tunes, control every little aspect, etc.

The two big ones in programmers in the 7.3L PSD world, are PHP and DPTuner.

I can load anyone's tunes onto my Hydra, where as you can only load DPTuner's tunes on to theirs.

 

[1-tonxj]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

A semi truck is not the same as the little b series diesel trucks they are usually factory set from 425-550 give or take 50 hp ...BUT...TORQUE is night and day being 1500-1800 them and available between 1000-1500 rpm ...oh and that 2 speed gear box is a big difference . So comparing 900 CID class 8 truck motors to a pick-up is Apples and Oranges .

 

[freerider15]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

The only thing they're really doing is adapting to your calibration for your pcm. Is it better? Yes. But you basically achieving the same thing.

And yes, when you've seen enough broken rings and missing ring lands on stock 7.3s I can tell you they are weak.

Meh, fair enough, I'd still have to disagree.

"adapting to your calibration for your pcm"

Expand on this, as I one of my job duties as an engineer is calibration...and I would say that is not remotely close to what an actual programmer does. Calibration is a reference against a standard. Adjusting dwell time, ramp time, PID loop tuning, offset balance, etc...are far from calibration.

Your experience is pretty different than most I've known who done the exact route I'm talking about. There are hundreds, if not thousands (or more) people who run a GTP38R and non-stock injectors without fail for well over 100k. If it were causing that many issues, it would be far more prevalent in discussions (i.e. much like the 0331 XJ head).

Then again, how you use that power is all relative. Me using it to more normalize towing, it a hell of a lot different than someone who's using to to hotshot around, roll coal, etc. etc. On top of that, we all know there are lot's of other contributors to an engine's failure.

I'm also not towing 50k and trying to make my truck compete with an OTR rig, I'm just looking to more comfortably tow my rig, and maybe two every once in a while.

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

A semi truck is not the same as the little b series diesel trucks they are usually factory set from 425-550 give or take 50 hp ...BUT...TORQUE is night and day being 1500-1800 them and available between 1000-1500 rpm ...oh and that 2 speed gear box is a big difference . So comparing 900 CID class 8 truck motors to a pick-up is Apples and Oranges .

I said C7, which is a 7.2L medium Duty HEUI injected engine. It's not an engine used in OTR tractors, it's used in dump trucks and construction equipment. It's also the engine used in the FMTV 2.5T and 5T trucks the Army uses. It's actually pretty similar in role as the International built 7.3's. Those too never made as much HP as the Ford applications. They also don't rev as high and make more torque.

 

[1-tonxj]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

I said C7, which is a 7.2L medium Duty HEUI injected engine. It's not an engine used in OTR tractors, it's used in dump trucks and construction equipment. It's also the engine used in the FMTV 2.5T and 5T trucks the Army uses. It's actually pretty similar in role as the International built 7.3's. Those too never made as much HP as the Ford applications. They also don't rev as high and make more torque.

Was pointing my post at Justin in regards to spec discussion of otr conventional trucks .

I run stock power last trip to Chinamans I had about 800lbs in the bed between the tires and bagged scrap...another couple hundred in tools piled up in the back seat and the trailer axles out right at 7k with almost 1000 on the tongue, so about 9,000 total everything .The truck has stock 3.73 and heavy 35 muds it pulls the big hills easily at the speed of traffic and faster if you want to contribute a donation to state or local funds ...I never really use the Edge to bump power up I want the truck to last another 100k...lol...it's a tow rig not a race or chase truck ...now if I had the cash to throw at two toys , well that be different .

 

[in4aride]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

The Moreno see pickup prices go up to ridiculous levels, the more I'm accepting that if the burb doesn't pull what I need, I'll buy a semi. For what they are going for, I might as well have to option to pull whatever I want.

 

[DutchVDub]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Yeah, but don't you have a 6.7l Cummins? Those are stock making more power than our much older 7.3's are. Like I said before, with my +50 setting I'm barely in the range of a stock 6.0L PSD. The new 6.7L Scorpion PSD is making 400hp and has 2 extra gears in its automatic.

If I put my truck in stock mode (all 250hp) I don't get any surging or even have to think about EGT's. It's also a sluggish pig, but still gets the job done. Keep in mind my truck is a 2001 and the 7.3l PSD came out in 95/96. We're talking old tech. That said I paid 17,000 for my truck with only 105,000 miles on it.

 

[1-tonxj]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

The Moreno see pickup prices go up to ridiculous levels, the more I'm accepting that if the burb doesn't pull what I need, I'll buy a semi. For what they are going for, I might as well have to option to pull whatever I want.

And be subject to stopping at every DOT scale and POE and asked for the same credentials you do in your work truck plus full level 1 inspections vs the personal pickup pretty much getting a free pass .

 

[1-tonxj]

Re: The Colorado BS thread

Yeah, but don't you have a 6.7l Cummins? Those are stock making more power than our much older 7.3's are. Like I said before, with my +50 setting I'm barely in the range of a stock 6.0L PSD. The new 6.7L Scorpion PSD is making 400hp and has 2 extra gears in its automatic.

If I put my truck in stock mode (all 250hp) I don't get any surging or even have to think about EGT's. It's also a sluggish pig, but still gets the job done. Keep in mind my truck is a 2001 and the 7.3l PSD came out in 95/96. We're talking old tech. That said I paid 17,000 for my truck with only 105,000 miles on it.

If all you pull is a Jeep any 3/4 ton made the last Twenty years will do the job .