XJ steering dead spot - a different approach

[ephsixten]

First off, I'm a long time XJ owner (this is my third), long time lurker, first time poster. I have searched and read MANY steering dead spot related threads and like many others I still have steering issues. I have not taken any drastic steps to remedy the issue yet (READ - no parts replaced) as I am trying to find the problem and solve it instead of throwing aftermarket parts at it and crossing my fingers.

Preliminary inspection under the jeep, using the ol' buddy turning the steering wheel method, does not show any major play in the steering linkages however I do notice that when turning the wheel there seems to be some major deflection of the body before the wheels really begin to turn. This is one possible problem I have not seen discussed. Perhaps the added beef of 33" tires creates a new "week spot" in which it becomes easier, when turning the steering wheel, for the body to deflect parallel to the axle and opposite the direction of steer then it is to actually turn the wheels at the knuckle. Once the body deflects as much as possible then the wheels get moving, hence the dead spot.

Any thoughts on this hypothesis? Any ideas as far as a pan hard bar type linkage to solidify the body to axle relationship?

My XJ specs;
96 Cherokee sport
4.5" RE lift
RE sway bar quick disco's (currently sway bar is connected)
Stock D30 front axle w/4:10's
33" BFG A/T's
Ford 8.8 rear-end w/4:10's (not that it would have any steering effects)
RE SYE hack-n-tap
RE drive shaft

 

[SolarBell]

You are asking about steering but you don't mention what your steering setup currently is - stock or not. What is it? Also, do you have any kind of steering box brace installed?

 

[ktm racer 419]

plate the unibody between the steering box and trackbar. inside, outside, and underneath. its a pretty common weakness of the cherokee.

a front bumper that ties in nicely, or a beefed up front crossmember will also help.

 

[ephsixten]

You are asking about steering but you don't mention what your steering setup currently is - stock or not. What is it? Also, do you have any kind of steering box brace installed?

Sorry the steering setup is stock.

 

[techno1154]

Sorry the steering setup is stock.

If you still have the OEM trac bar you need to replace it. The ball joint on the body side usually have plenty of play in it. There is also the possibility of the bolt holes elongating at both ends adding to the amount of free play that allow the body to move over the axle before the wheels turn.

There are plenty of vendors here that manufacture and sell trac bars and body mounting bracket that are double sheer. It would not hurt to also upgrade to after market steering links or at the least replacing the tie rod with one from a ZJ.

 

[Original_MudButt]

I have a '98 with a BDS long arm lift (including track bar), Currie Correct Link tie rod, newly rebuilt steering box, 32" BFG A/T's, etc.

I had the tire shop check out the ball joints before the alignment was done and they say they are fine.

I also have the C-Rok steering box frame plates and the Moore steering box brace.

I also have about 4" of slop in the steering wheel and a bit of road wander.

If you figure it out let us know please......

 

[iwannadie]

I replaced my steering box with a NAPA reman a while back and right away I had a pretty bad dead spot. I took the box back for a replacement and it was perfect with the 2nd box and no other changes. I was surprised to get a bad box right out of the ... box.

 

[Vanimal]

I replaced my steering box with a NAPA reman a while back and right away I had a pretty bad dead spot. I took the box back for a replacement and it was perfect with the 2nd box and no other changes. I was surprised to get a bad box right out of the ... box.

this is a good point, i had a dead spot in my van, adjusted the steering gear box a hair and it went away.
different animal, but pretty much the same box and steering.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

I was amazed at how much better my steering was after the lift went in. I run the RE 1660 track bar 1665 track bar mount with the 1670 track bar brace. IMO. that brace is worth every dime.

FYI, the over-center adjustment should not be made unless the Worm Thrust Bearing Preload Adjustment is made first. This adjustment requires the steering gear to be removed from the Heep... The over-center adjustment alsoneeds to be made with the gear out and needs a bar type torque wrench to accomplish the task as the preload is set to 4-5inlbs for used gear and 4-8inlbs for new gear. The bar type is needed as you need to see what the existing resistance is prior to the adjustment as well as in making the adjustment itself.

The worm shaft bearing itself requires to be preloaded to 4-10inlbs for new gear.

So, to do the task correctly, the gear needs to be in a vice. The FSM also warns about not over tightening the vice as the case will get squeezed affecting the measurements. The effect of an over tight vice will be loose steering after the adjustments are made.

 

[sunburned]

plate the unibody between the steering box and trackbar. inside, outside, and underneath. its a pretty common weakness of the cherokee.

a front bumper that ties in nicely, or a beefed up front crossmember will also help.

I have a Rigidco bumper that has a 3/16" plate covering the entire cross member (secured with at least 10 bolts) and big frame plates going down the rails. My framerail still cracked under the steering box. Had to weld a plate across it and weld it to the bumper plates and I think that took care of it. I'm sure it's just a bandaid though.

I bought the JCR frame plates, but its pretty much impossible to get a welder to the inside of the frame rail without taking the damn engine out. Best thing to do would be plate each side with beefy sleeves for the steering box bolts. Starboard M did that on his I believe.

I have a '98 with a BDS long arm lift (including track bar), Currie Correct Link tie rod, newly rebuilt steering box, 32" BFG A/T's, etc.

I had the tire shop check out the ball joints before the alignment was done and they say they are fine.

I also have the C-Rok steering box frame plates and the Moore steering box brace.

I also have about 4" of slop in the steering wheel and a bit of road wander.

If you figure it out let us know please......

Have someone get under the front of your jeep and take a look. I found a good amount of slop in my RE double shear track bar brace. I had to weld it to the frame so it'd stay put, even when it was bolted down. And plate the mount on the axle if you are using the stock location. I had that hole wallow out when using the RE trackbar. TB bushings could be shot as well.

I also found the Currie steering to gain a bit of slop after a while. That could be an issue if you have a couple years on it.

 

[ephsixten]

Thanks for the suggestions. I definitely plan to reinforce the steering box/unibody area using some type of plate setup (have yet to decide on mfg.). I also appreciate the worm drive adjustment tips as that is something else I plan to do.

I crawled under the Jeep last night to do some more investigating and was almost immediately embarrased by what I found. Total rookie move I was so preoccupied with the steering linkages at the column, box, and tie rod that I hadn't checked the track bar. The body side mount had come loose and opened up the hole that was drilled to accept the RE track bar. I tightened it down as much as possible and had the wife move the wheel left to right. It is much better now. I will probably drill out the hole and insert a bushing that fits well with the bolt for a long term fix. Still haven't driven it yet (currently undergoing a few other repairs) but I imagine for how much movement there was in the tack bar mount it should be much better.

I guess overall my hypothesis was correct; the body was being allowed to move left to right with respect to the axle when moving the steering wheel. I was just making things much more complicated. That normally happens when you spend half the day thinking about working on the jeep while sitting in the office at work.

 

[iwannadie]

this is a good point, i had a dead spot in my van, adjusted the steering gear box a hair and it went away.
different animal, but pretty much the same box and steering.

I thought about adjusting my box but after reading I decided not to risk it and since it was a "new" box I rather just take it right back out. It sucked putting the box in/out a few times but in the end well worth it.

 

[Vanimal]

I thought about adjusting my box but after reading I decided not to risk it and since it was a "new" box I rather just take it right back out. It sucked putting the box in/out a few times but in the end well worth it.

i hear ya. the one in my xj started binding after i adjusted it, but i did adjust it a lot. i ended up getting one rebuilt by old_man and it seems to be tight so far.

 

[souske]

As for trying to fix the factory body side TB mount, don't bother. I played that game for a year or so, and had DW on the way home from wheeling more times than I care to count. Get a double sheer bracket, and call it done.

 

[ephsixten]

As for trying to fix the factory body side TB mount, don't bother. I played that game for a year or so, and had DW on the way home from wheeling more times than I care to count. Get a double sheer bracket, and call it done.

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will do this. I'd rather have it done right the first time then fumble around with various bushings and have to constantly verify it is staying tight. I mean I get under there and verify all bolts are tight on a regular basis anyway but...:rof:

Does anyone know if the Iron Rock Offroad double sheer upgrade will work on the Rubicon Express track bar? From IRO website, "Only works with our HD track bar and others that have a M22x1.5 left hand thread rod end" Or can anyone suggest an end that will work with the IRO bracket and RE bar? I would prefer not to purchase a new TB since mine is still in good shape.

 

[souske]

Cant say for sure, when I got my bracket from another member on here, it looked to be setup for a Johnny Joint, while I am running a heim on the body side. Even with the misalignment spacers, the bracket was too wide for a tight fit. Found an appropriate washer, and flapwheeled it little by little until it could be tapped in with a hammer, no issues since.

 

[Vanimal]

why not get the RE track bar bracket? i have the re track bar with the heim and the misalignment spacers fit perfectly in the bracket. the only thing i had to do was drill out the bolt hole to 5/8" since the re track bar had a 9/16" hole for the joint.

 

[ephsixten]

why not get the RE track bar bracket? i have the re track bar with the heim and the misalignment spacers fit perfectly in the bracket. the only thing i had to do was drill out the bolt hole to 5/8" since the re track bar had a 9/16" hole for the joint.

Think I may go this route. I called RE and of course they told me if I wanted to run the double sheer bracket I would need to get a new track bar. They don't make a threaded end with a rubber bushing for their track bar.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Vanimal]

just redrill the hole and you'll be fine, or find misalignment spacers with a 9/16" hole instead.

 

[jeepito]

I am having steering dead spot as well. My gear box was making a noise so I had it replaced with one from autozone. The dead spot came after the swap. So I replaced it for another and still the same problem. A little info about my jeep. 98 with 5 1/2 lift. It has rugged ridge steering with new tie rod ends. New track bar with bracket and still having horrible death wobble issues. Can any one help ?