WJ Steering and brakes for street only?

[seanyb505]

Background - Aging 97 XJ with super sloppy steering. Im shooting for a factory performance version type XJ with more modern systems and more performance. Think late nineties R/T, along the lines of a Dakota R/T. Or current SRT vehicles.

Steering - My 13 year old steering that I dont think has been changed since 1984 needs repair. Its just old. I know the offroad guys use WJ for numerous reasons, however I encounter none of them other than sloppy steering. I know just repairing my stuff will tighten things up; I would like it better if possible. The cross over stuff looks tighter than inverted y and more responsive to steering input.

Brakes - Ive heard that if you can lock up your brakes you dont need a brake upgrade. I think with the WJ dual piston calipers there may be more control near the limit. Further more, I think there are plenty of vehicles today that receive brake upgrades as part of a performance upgrade. AMG and M both come to mind. Im sure the normal product lines could lock up the tires just fine without ABS. Which brings me to my next question - Would I only see benefits from WJ brakes if I installed ABS? I know that would take a lot, but my SE has been plug and play with a lot of options it didnt come with, so I know there would be a way to retrofit it. Rear disks are in the works also.

Do you think for a Cherokee R/T or SRT (however you want to look at it) WJ stuff would be overkill and useless, or could I benefit from it all? It's going under the knife this summer, Im not positive on whether this stuff will be included.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

I have been wanting to do it to my MJ. It is a 2wd though. I need to go grab the WJ 2wd hubs to do so. I have almost all the other pieces.

 

[seanyb505]

WJ hubs would be 5x5... From the mod section 00-01 XJ/TJ unit bearings work, but you need the JKS spacer. Mine is 2wd too.

 

[foxwar71]

Is it worth it for a street performer? HELL YES!!! its even cheaper to do if its a street jeep, no need to go OTK. Run stock TRE's UTK, no need for a new trackbar and bracket, simply use the stock axle mount. if youre only 2WD, it make is even cheaper, no need to buy the spacers. use stock wj rotors and hubs redrilled for 5x4.5, you might/should even be able to run your stock hubs if you wanted.

 

[souske]

WJ hubs would be 5x5... From the mod section 00-01 XJ/TJ unit bearings work, but you need the JKS spacer. Mine is 2wd too.

dont need the Unit bearing spacer if you are 2wd, you can run the older bearings. The spacer is there to keep the U-joint centerline aligned with the ball joint pivot axis. I did grab some 2wd WJ stubs though. Planning on keeping em for limping home in 2wd:repair:

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

I plan on doing it during my V8 swap. So I will go with the WJ stuff to include the WJ unit bearings. I have a 9" for the rear that has a 5on5 pattern. This way I can just grab some JK takeoffs for wheels and call it done. It also makes replacing rotors easier.

 

[Lightfoot]

I have been working on something similar for a while now. My jeep is on 31's. Its my DD, and I use it for getting to the mountains in the winter. I don't wheel it, so road manners are more important to me than high clearance and strength at this point. I did the WJ knuckle conversion this weekend using stock XJ steering and track bar. You will have to re adjust toe in and steering wheel center, but it turns lock to lock. My plan is to upgrade the steering to stock WJ parts for better rigidity and control. This requires the tie rod and drag link to be shortened. You can buy aftermarket ones, or cut and sleeve the stock ones. I wish it was as simple as putting them on, but unfortunately that is where you run into problems with the track bar. The higher position of the wj steering knuckle means the track bar and drag link are no longer parallel. This means raising your axle end track bar mount. This ideally would be inside the spring, so shortening the track bar is necessary too. This may cause some bump steer because it increases the length difference between the drag link and track bar. Making sure they are parallel might make it barely noticeable, but in addition, the closer they are to the same length the better.
My plan at this point is to modify both track bar mounts. On the axle end it will be about 3 3/4" above the stock mount, and 2" inboard. on the frame end, I plan to build a double shear mount similar to the stock one with some room for adjustment. I would like to try and use the stock wj track bar with it, but may end up with an adjustable one if I cant make it fit correctly.
Instead of going through all the modification, you might consider upgrading to ZJ v8 steering instead of stock XJ. You shouldn't have to touch the track bar, but you get the benefit of a bit beefier steering.

As far as the brakes, they are an incredible improvement. They are still smooth, but you don't get that feeling that pushing harder has no effect. I haven't had to lock them up yet, but with out a doubt, I could. Once I get disks in the back it should be outrageous.
(If you really want to go nuts, I think you can put 6 piston cobra calipers up front with this swap.)
The stock steering is pretty bad. Its livable, and gets the job done, but I don't like it.I have tried to do this with as few after market parts as possible for the sake of cost, but the trade off is fab work.

I also plan to run a v8 zj sway bar with this. It will keep it a bit more level through turns.

1999 2dr 4.7 ax-15 np231 31" 4.5" 30/8.25 WJ brakes 3.07 Coming Soon: 4.10's, 8.8 rear, AA sye

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

link to the cobra setup or writeup? Is it just the same style caliper mounting, or is there some fab work.

 

[seanyb505]

if youre only 2WD, it make is even cheaper, no need to buy the spacers. use stock wj rotors and hubs redrilled for 5x4.5, you might/should even be able to run your stock hubs if you wanted.

I was under the impression the spacers also help center the rotor in the caliper if you use XJ hubs. I know for 4wd the spacer will keep the ujoint on the center of rotation when the knuckle turns, but since it is before the hub it pushes the rotor out as well. I know the Sport trac rotor is the correct bolt pattern, but Ive read it requires grinding to clear the hubs. Going with the spacer and redrilled WJ rotors seems a little easier without really sacrificing anything.

I I wish it was as simple as putting them on, but unfortunately that is where you run into problems with the track bar. The higher position of the wj steering knuckle means the track bar and drag link are no longer parallel. This means raising your axle end track bar mount. This ideally would be inside the spring, so shortening the track bar is necessary too. This may cause some bump steer because it increases the length difference between the drag link and track bar. Making sure they are parallel might make it barely noticeable, but in addition, the closer they are to the same length the better.


1999 2dr 4.7 ax-15 np231 31" 4.5" 30/8.25 WJ brakes 3.07 Coming Soon: 4.10's, 8.8 rear, AA sye

I see you're lifted, whereas Im running about an inch lower than stock. Any insight to how the track bar will like that? I will most likely buy the JKS drag link and tie rod, for simplicity and bolt-on-ability.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

I thought you also space the caliper mounting bracket out as well. So if you do without the spacer then you can also do without the others.

 

[seanyb505]

Well the knuckle spacer is a 1/4 of an inch thick. From what Ive read in the WJ brakes simplified thread over in mod section you dont need to space out the caliper bracket, and if some people have, I highly doubt its 1/4 inch. So I dont think its like you can just not use either and it will cancel out and work. Ill go check it out some more.

 

[Lightfoot]

Sorry, i dont have a write up or anything on the cobra brakes, because I never considered using them. I do remember it being mentioned though when I was doing research, so you might be able to find something more about it on google.

As far as the track bar goes, if you want to use WJ steering, you will have to relocate the track bar regardless of lift. On the pass side WJ knuckle there are two arms. A lower arm that is mirrored on the drivers knuckle, and an upper arm that is not. The two lower arms are almost exactly like XJ knuckles. This allows you to use xj steering between them in a close to stock fashion ( just a bit wider). WJ steering runs a solid tie rod between the lower arms, and uses the upper arm for the drag link. This decreases the angle of the drag link compared to the xj, bringing it out of parallel with the track bar. To correct this you have to raise the track bar on the axle end also.
This was accounted for in the wj axle. The track bar axle mount is fully about the axle tube. They got around interference with the springs by raising the spring buckets about 2 inches above the axle.

Since you are lower than stock, raising the track bar might cause some other issues, like contact with the oil pan. Its hard to say though. If I was you, I would probably ditch the xj inverted y steering, and get a good inverted t setup. Youll get stiffer steering, and a shorter drag link out of it. It should handle decently, and you avoid having to mess with the track bar.

For the spacers, there is no need to use them with 2wd. They are only important for centering the u-joint with the ball joints. Save your 50 bucks. With the knuckle spacers installed, I had to run .25" spacers (washers) to get the calipers to not bind on the rotors. If I hadnt used the knuckle spacers, I wouldnt have had to use the caliper spacers. Instead of spacing the calipers, I believe there are some write ups that recommend using TJ bearings to correct the misalignment. I figured 8 washers were cheaper than 2 unit bearings, and no one has reported any trouble with this setup.

 

[CanMan]

The spacer is to correctly center the axle shaft in the C. It's got nothing to do with the caliper bracket itself for the most part.

I used pre 90 unit bearings, redrilled WJ rotors, WJ Teeves calipers and brackets, WJ pads, and the JKS spacer. I've done this setup on 2 other rigs with sucess and no clearence problems.

 

[seanyb505]

I used pre 90 unit bearings, redrilled WJ rotors, WJ Teeves calipers and brackets, WJ pads, and the JKS spacer. I've done this setup on 2 other rigs with sucess and no clearence problems.

You used only this, or this and then different steering?

I thought about inverted T for a while, but it seemed that the most benefit would come from the crossover setup. Id like to avoid welding (exluding spacers) or removing my axle.

 

[CanMan]

I have custom steering, but its the same as WJ as far as where it mounts, and over the knuckle on the tie rod and drag link.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/66TurboChevelle/Cherokee/DSCF3626.jpg

 

[Boostwerks.com]

FWIW, I'll have my own upgrade available soon.

 

[seanyb505]

Yes thats nice, but it looks a bit pricey. After buying two sets of akebonos at the junkyard, selling one set, I get my set for free. I know crossover will require a new trackbar mount, unless there is a way around that Ill probly go with inverted t or y. Given my budget buying a welder makes crossover not as worth it(unless it is that much more awesome and preferrable, if someone has some insight to that). And I dont exactly trust Mr Craigslist auto welder either. As awesome as it would be, I know Ive gotten by with the y, what would t require? New drag link and a tie rod specifically for t setups obviously, 4 tie rod ends, and I could run that UTK with the WJ knuckles. Correct me if Im wrong, just thinking out loud.

Remember Im shooting to clean up my current steering, and make any available improvements to the stock design that would firm things up a bit, and give more feeling to steering.

 

[Lightfoot]

If your really looking to do it on the cheap, grab a v8 zj tie rod and call it good. Inverted y really only causes problems at high lifts. The zj rod will be beefier and stiffer than stock.

 

[seanyb505]

Thats what I was wondering - Would crossover even be worth it compared to a stock height, properly functioning y setup. Does the ZJ rod add any stability or control? Or is it mainly so you dont crush the XJ tie rod on some rocks...

I believe I read somewhere that I could do the WJ brakes but retain the stock steering setup, just leave the top passenger arm alone. I may end up just making sure my current steering is in tip top shape but adding the WJ brake stuff, and potentially going crossover later in life.

 

[Deadman 94 xj]

I just got donw with the WJ swap.

Using 99 unit bearings, there is NO reason to drill out the WJ rotors. 96 Crown-Vic rotors work perfect.

On a scale of 1-10. The stock brakes, running 35's, were a 4. After the swap the brakes are easily a 10 . I still need to replace the steering with DOM and tube adaptors so there's not so much exposed thread on the TRE's.

Here's a good write up:
http://www.jcroffroad.com/WJ.html

Don't pay attention to the overseas knuckle swap because doing that is supposed to mess up your ackerman angles.