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What I did today...

riverfever

NAXJA Forum User
Spent all damn day TRYING to get a new sink installed. It's in an old house and this P trap is a POS trap. I can't the pipes lined up to save my life. Now I know why plumbers get paid so well. Here are some pics of the madness.
5m096p

5m0axu

5m0aza

This is how the sink looked form the top when I got the pipes lined up the closest all day long on attempt #1,357.
5m0b3c


I have a pounding headache. I am getting ready to go back to Lowes for the 8th time today. To me, this particular job is like doing a freakin' scavenger hunt, puzzle but only blindfolded.
:rattle:
 
I'm surprised there isn't enough give in those pipes to get them together, but I think one problem is that the trap is set too low for the slot in the sink pedestal. since the height is fixed by the hole in the wall, you can't do much about that now, except to see if you can flex the down pipe from the sink enough. The other problem obviously is that the trap assembly is just too deep when it comes straight out of the wall. If there's any possibility of moving the sink sideways a few inches, the trap will swivel, and you can push the sink right up to the wall.
 
I spent about 13 hours on this job with no success. I finally took the sink back tonight b/c of the fact that the cut out in the back of the pedastel wasn't low enough. I got one where the entire back is open all the way to the floor. I should be able to run the P trap unaltered. I think I'm gonna leave it alone tonight though and start on it first thing in the morning. I have one thing in mind for this evening: To get as deep in that fridge as possible. I told the wife all she'll see is ass and elbows hangin' out the fridge tonight. Hopefully tomorrow will bring success.
 
Don't feel bad, I had to replace a delta faucet in an upstairs bath, the builder had soldered the hot and cold pipes and they were within a knats ass going into the old faucet. No way was I going to duplicate that, 20 year old faucet no longer made.
So, it was off to HD for 1/2" adapters w/threads on one end, new torch, solder, flux, flex hoses and one of those tiny pipe cutters. 3 hours later I was done, turned the water in the house back on because I could not get the cold water valve under the sink to turn all the way off. It was an experience, I'd never soldered copper pipe before, under a sink and in a confined area. No leaks. Now I have to do the downstairs one to match [wifes requirement]....
I still rank painting as my number one don't like to do though and that catherdral ceiling in the living room needs to be done as well as the walls.
 
Oh, I hear ya' man! This is what I did to our kitchen sink.



I got so sick of that cheap crap they sell for drains that I got some 1.5" pvc and some elbows and glued that puppy up. YEAH!! Five years and never one leak. There is a coupling at the wall and I scew out the traps and the whole thing comes out for cleaning. I've done that twice in five years. Get rid of that cheap crap and build your own.

It took about three hours on my back to design, dry fit, and glue-up the setup shown, but damn it, I was satisfied when it was done. The wife can sling that mixer under there as hard as she wants and that sucker is not coming apart. I did the same for both bathroom sinks, as well.

Good luck man.
 
I don't even wanna think about messing with copper and flux. I'd gladly swap painting for plumbing. I can cut no one's business.

Oh...and I must say XJDreamin'...it looks like that plumbing could hold up to the rigors of a small man under there doing pull ups all day. I just hope mine doesn't drip.
 
Riverfever, in case you didn't understand my note above, look at XJDreamin's picture, and note how his trap is mounted slightly to the side, allowing it to pivot. This is what you need to do to get your sink to the wall.
 
Matthew Currie said:
Riverfever, in case you didn't understand my note above, look at XJDreamin's picture, and note how his trap is mounted slightly to the side, allowing it to pivot. This is what you need to do to get your sink to the wall.

I put the trap as close to the wall as I could to clear out the space under the sink for all the crap the wife likes to store under there. I did the same to the bathroom sink because she stores towels under there. She'd shove a pile of towels under the sink and knock those cheap compression fittings loose. Then she'd come to me with, "Your sink drain got my towels wet." Alright, I say. I can fix that: 1.5" pvc.

One thing: dry-fit the whole set-up and mark each joint for orrientation. When you "dry-fit" keep a glass of water handy to dip the pipe sections in so that they will slip together fully. When they are actually dry, sometimes the fit changes when they become slippery with glue.

As to the trap: all you actually need is for some section of pipe to be lower than the piece in the wall. It doesn't have to be that thing that comes in the bag from Home Depot. As long as the upper rim of some part of the drain is below the lower rim of the pipe coming out of the wall. That said: it is nice if the volume of water retained in the trap is small rather than large. If only a small portion of the trap volume is drained with each use of the sink, the trap can become its own sewer, although that would have to be a rather sizeable trap. I doubt that would become a concern in a normal application.
 
riverfever said:
I don't even wanna think about messing with copper and flux. I'd gladly swap painting for plumbing. I can cut no one's business.

Oh...and I must say XJDreamin'...it looks like that plumbing could hold up to the rigors of a small man under there doing pull ups all day. I just hope mine doesn't drip.

Actually after it was all done the soldering was pretty easy, just heated the adapter up for about 2 min then when the flux started boiling I stuck the solder in there and it sucked it right in, quick wipe with a damp cloth like I've seen on this old house and it was done.
I like that Ptrap to the rear setup, would open up a bit more space under the sink instead of sitting out there in the middle as a target. Maybe a 90 right out of the wall, down the p and back out with another 90 then a straight run out with a 90 up. Might even be able to put a shelf in there like the wife wants.

If only I could go back 20 years and change some things on this house when we first built it knowing what I know now.....
 
also, check here www.askmehelpdesk.com go to the home and garden section, then plumbing.. pro-plumbers can give good answers... I have become pretty good at sweatting copper.. somewhere in the 60 year history of my house, the copper lines in the basement were all joined with pvc unions, but i also have cpvc, and galvanized in the house. I am in the process of replacing the lines for the upstairs tub and shower. had to cut thru the floor to replace the drum trap with 2"pvc and a p-trap.. what a huge pain... i told the wife, if i ever finish the plumbing, tiling, flooring of this bathroom, I am retiring from home improvement projects until I have forgotten about this.. and all day for a foot of pipes... yeah that sounds about right... ugh... my back hurts just typing this.... :wierd:
 
Our place was built in '77 as part of a subdivision development, so there was no buyer on site during construction. The list of builder's shortcuts I've found is too depressing to try to list. In a nut shell, I can say that nothing is truly flat, straight, level, square, or plumb. Never assume that studs are 16" apart. I've found studs as much as 20" apart! You get your tile laid out and find that one wall is running off at an angle. You go to hang a door and find the friggin' wall isn't plumb. How do I hang a door straight when the wall isn't even plumb.

Then, the original owners (we're second) had not even the tiniest flame of an inkling of an idea what to do. He varnished over linoleum...without sweeping first. I swear - there are dust bunnies trapped in the varnish. I found a big ball of electrical tape in the attic with five 14ga house cables coming out of it :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

Well, this could go on and on so I'm going to STFU now before I blow a gasket. I wish I knew where the guy is, 'cause I want to take him by the ear and drag him around that place and ask him, "WTF were you thinking?!?!"
 
XJ Dreamin' said:
Our place was built in '77 as part of a subdivision development, so there was no buyer on site during construction. The list of builder's shortcuts I've found is too depressing to try to list. In a nut shell, I can say that nothing is truly flat, straight, level, square, or plumb. Never assume that studs are 16" apart. I've found studs as much as 20" apart! You get your tile laid out and find that one wall is running off at an angle. You go to hang a door and find the friggin' wall isn't plumb. How do I hang a door straight when the wall isn't even plumb.

Then, the original owners (we're second) had not even the tiniest flame of an inkling of an idea what to do. He varnished over linoleum...without sweeping first. I swear - there are dust bunnies trapped in the varnish. I found a big ball of electrical tape in the attic with five 14ga house cables coming out of it :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

Well, this could go on and on so I'm going to STFU now before I blow a gasket. I wish I knew where the guy is, 'cause I want to take him by the ear and drag him around that place and ask him, "WTF were you thinking?!?!"
been there done that.... :cheers: mate... I feel your pain
 
XJDreamin', I'm glad you thought of the cleaning and made it removable. I just went to a dudes house who HADN't thought of that and had to cut his piping in order to run the drain.

riverfever, sweating copper is easy. Spend a little time practicing and it gets real easy. Heat it on one side until the flux runs, touch the solder to the other side and it runs around real sweet. Hit with a damp cloth and it looks good. Just let it cool by itself; I'm not a fan of cooling the join.

Oh and on your first pedestal sink? You could have brought it straight out and then added the p-trap. Unless of course your code says not to but it doesn't usually. I hate pedestal sinks myself tho. No freakin' room to work and run a cable. Way too easy to hit the sink with the cable.

Sarge
 
Success at last! I got so much done today I don't know what to do with myself. The solution: Take back that stupid sink and get another one with an open back. Matthew, I don't think the pictures did the problem any justice or I just wasn't able to make it work. Regardless, I returned the sink and had the P trap installed inside of 30 minutes. I'm tired as hell now but I'll post pics soon. Thanks for all the help guys. Strange getting plumbing advice from a Jeep forum...but very cool. Sad thing is that the house will go on the market in about a week. I'm moving to Woodland Park, Colorado. One of the last jobs I need to do is installing carpeting upstairs. Maybe I'll start a new thread when the time comes.
 
riverfever said:
Success at last! I got so much done today I don't know what to do with myself. The solution: Take back that stupid sink and get another one with an open back. Matthew, I don't think the pictures did the problem any justice or I just wasn't able to make it work. Regardless, I returned the sink and had the P trap installed inside of 30 minutes. I'm tired as hell now but I'll post pics soon. Thanks for all the help guys. Strange getting plumbing advice from a Jeep forum...but very cool. Sad thing is that the house will go on the market in about a week. I'm moving to Woodland Park, Colorado. One of the last jobs I need to do is installing carpeting upstairs. Maybe I'll start a new thread when the time comes.

Hey, man..Congrats on the drain and good luck on the sale and move. It's a bummer to have to leave all of that work behind, but it'll be worth it come closing time. On the first walk through of this house we knocked $15,000 off because the friggin' owner obviously didn't care shait about it. Hadn't done a damn thing for the place. In fact, of the original owners it was just the wife by then and she was living in an RV in the driveway. Woods rats had moved into the master bedroom closet! We came back up $4,000 to put in a new ariated septic system and moved in at $11,000 under asking, which was already way under market. I'd bet we were the only offer she ever got. We took it 'cause I knew I could fix the place, and do that for way less than the $11,000 we cut off the asking price. A sweet deal...except for all the friggin' work I've had to do - and all the work left yet to do. Oh, well.

Good Luck,
 
jeepinandy said:
been there done that.... :cheers: mate... I feel your pain[/QUOTE

Thanks, Dude. I needed that.

You figure, of the five lines, one of them has to be supply. That means the stupid SOB is running four 14ga loads off of one 14ga line. You gotta wonder: Why does he think they make different gauges, anyway? The stupidity is really astounding - and very, very scary.
 
Sarge said:
XJDreamin', I'm glad you thought of the cleaning and made it removable. I just went to a dudes house who HADN't thought of that and had to cut his piping in order to run the drain.

Sarge

Ha, you caught me! I have to admit, on the first dry fit I had a glue joint at the wall :laugh3: . I caught it, though, and corrected it before I openned the glue can. I wasn't that far from being in the same boat as your buddy.
 
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