wagoneer 44 into a xj

[Outlander560]

hey everybody i'm going to be putting a waggy 44 into the front of my DD xj i know it's never been done before! crazy stuff right!!

I have the axle, locker outs, gears but now i gotta pick up the locker, mounts and shafts. Just a few questions as I pick up parts for it I was thinking about just picking up a detroit locker for the front but some people are saying i should get a select-able locker i was wondering why i should if i have lock outs, even when i lock it in on the road when it snows I don't see the need for a selectable, correct me if im wrong.

Next I'm cutting and rotating the c's setting my pinion angle to about 17* and my c's to about 5* positive caster...i have about 4 different tabs bookmarked from here about it the axle and setting it up, i'm just wondering if theirs any new info i have not come by in my past..

Pictures to follow of the build if any of you guys are interested....looking to take a few trips to Rausch Creek if anyone wants to join this summer

 

[CTeunuch]

I run a lunchbox in my D44, which acts like a Detroit, and haven't had any issues with it. A selectable would be nice, but it's also some serious $$$.

5* sounds a little low for caster to me, I set mine closer to 8* and have been very happy with it. Less positive caster will get you tighter/quicker steering, but it will also make it less predictable and more prone to death wobble at higher speeds.

When you buy shafts steer clear of Yukon's, I blew one up on 35's one it's second run. This could have been a fluke, but others have said they aren't the best choice and have had similar issues.

 

[Outlander560]

thanks for the info! so whats the benefit of running a selectable locker with lock outs? Besides it being a full case. I tried all sorts of different combinations in search but havent really read anything good about the lunchbox vs selectable debate.

I agree about the caster the more I think about it I''ll probably add a couple degree's to my previous numbers I can always adjust it. Pinion angle sound alright to you?

As far as shafts I was thinking factory 10 shafts talking to a few people around here they seem to really like them and it comes with a 10 year warranty which is pretty sweet. I'll stay away from yukons after hearing that thanks again!

 

[CTeunuch]

A Detroit is a full case, as it replaces the factory carrier. The big benefit of a full case, selectable or not, is strength. The stronger the carrier the less chance of deflection, which lessens the chance of the R&P breaking. Not to mention the carrier itself will be less prone to breakage.

As far as selectable vs full time locker, with out without lockouts, the big advantage I've noticed is an increase in turning radius. My ZJ sucks to turn on the trail now, and takes a lot of 3+ point turns, whereas in my XJ that had an ARB I could leave it unlocked to cruise the trails and only lock it up when I needed it to make an obstacle.

I have no idea what your pinion angle should be, it will all depend on application. Set the axle up in the Jeep with a good pinion angle, then install the inner C's and set the caster from there. The axle I have came narrowed and turned, so I got lucky and skipped that mess.

Good luck and be sure to post some pictures as you go!

 

[Outlander560]

will do thanks again for the info!

 

[kastein]

Make sure you have the weight of the jeep on the springs somehow when you set the pinion angle, else your pinion angle will be perfect at full droop and probably shitty at ride height. Once you tack it all together, cycle the suspension (without the springs in...) and make sure the ujoint angles aren't horrible at full stuff or full droop, too.

You probably already know this, but I'd rather say something obvious than watch someone make a mistake they'll regret.

 

[CTeunuch]

No need for the weight to be on the axle, but Ken's right it should be set at ride height.

 

[Outlander560]

i could tack it in and leave the weight on as long as i make them good it should be ok to put weight on...i have a 220v miller 180 do you think i can weld the c's on with that? Or bad idea? first time ever welding c's back on not sure what to use. Appreciate the advice guys..hopefully some of you are free after im done with this build and we can go wheeling would like it done by the end of june.

 

[Outlander560]

oh and about the detroit vs selectable, in my readings i came across a few people discussing that with a detroit or lunch box you can just lock one wheel instead of both, so your front is not locked and you can actually steer, i was scratching my head over this idea and was wondering what you guys thought of it..seemed kind of stupid but if you think about it in very broad terms its kind of like my d30 now with only one wheel spinning and the other not doing crap..but i just feel like with this idea something will grenade itself...i wish i can find the thread...was not on naxja

 

[ROBZ95Xj]

oh and about the detroit vs selectable, in my readings i came across a few people discussing that with a detroit or lunch box you can just lock one wheel instead of both, so your front is not locked and you can actually steer, i was scratching my head over this idea and was wondering what you guys thought of it..seemed kind of stupid but if you think about it in very broad terms its kind of like my d30 now with only one wheel spinning and the other not doing crap..but i just feel like with this idea something will grenade itself...i wish i can find the thread...was not on naxja

dont listen to all the bullshit about detroits or lockrites in the frt, many of us run them in d44's or d60's without issue and have ran em in d30's without lockouts, as far as inner c's them welders will be fine, im sure a 140 would even due, theres alot of surface there, not sure the need to turn them with lockouts though

 

[Outlander560]

the only reason I was wanting to turn the c's is to have good return to center and steering, I will be driving this on the road a lot as well as off the road. Still being in college I make the wonderful 4 hour drive one way in the awesome upstate weather by Syracuse. So just in case I need to use 4 wheel drive I'd like to be able to.

One big problem about the past few months of searching and reading although I have read a lot, a lot of it is very contradicting one says one thing the other says don't ever do that go with my idea.

All I want is a beefy front end that I can drive on the road and off the road. I'm not asking for the handling of a maserati but dam near close if I can. Something I can lock up run 35's and is not a d30

 

[ROBZ95Xj]

You can adjust your caster with your control arms and not have to deal withcutting and turning the inner c's

 

[Outlander560]

I remember discussing that with you in another thread on here, but to achieve the positive caster I want my pinion would be to low..correct me if i'm wrong i do not know everything I might be mixing things up

 

[Outlander560]

bout time to start this thread again..just got back from school and although I'm starting my summer classes and my full time job...again I'm going to try and post up as much as I can..so as far as the background of whats going on here goes.

Picked up a 89 grand waggy front 44 with a whole bunch of goodies for a little more than I've found just waggy 44s for.
included- axle already sanded down cleaned up for me
NIB precision gear 4.88s
NIB bearings/shims/seals
NIB rotors
NIB warn premium lockouts
chevy flatop knuckles

and then a complete rest of parts to the 44 and drive slugs

going to order
-factory 10 shafts
-eaton e-locker
-T&T truss (i know their other cheaper routes but pricing out everything not by all that much, and if I wasn't pressed for time the T&T kit is straight shot)
-HD frame stiffenors mid and front
-OTK 1 ton steering
-35 kevlars and some cheap set of rims
-All knew bearings/seals for hubs (parts mike unless anyone knows where else to get some)
-Longifield spindle bushings
-My rear xj 44 going to get a set of dutchman axle shafts 6x5.5
-Upper and lower ball joints

I will try and post pictures tomorrow of everything and the current status of the jeep.

Anyone reading this if you want to purchase a set of chevy flatop knuckles pm me. I just sand blasted them and primed them for you ready to go. I have no desire to go to high steer and don't want a perfectly good set sitting around.

 

[chedisme]

I got talked out of the t&t truss for my 60. Everyone said it didnt fit very well and needed quite a bit of work to make it fit.

Did you price out a piece of 2x5 tube and just notch it and stuff to make a truss out of that. Check out foxwars build he did his 60 truss like that.

 

[Outlander560]

really? was it clearance issues, not aligning right? dont like the sounds of it not fitting right especially for that much $$...could do th 2x5 tubing and some coil buckets from ballistics but what do you think is a good upper control arm mounts?

 

[chedisme]

I think it was not aligning correctly.

I used the ruffstuff udjustable upper link mount. But you probably dont need something that tall if its going to sit ontop of a truss.

 

[Outlander560]

hmmm maybe i'll go back to the drawing board....i'll check it out..i've been going over a couple builds and was curious what you think chedisme, do you think I should go threw the effort of rotating the c's on this waggy 44 or do you think it will be fine. some build threads did it some didn't

 

[chedisme]

I didnt rotate mine. I dont think its a big deal. I split the diff between perfect pinion angle and optimal castor. Looki g back i wish i said F the castor and set the pinion in the best spot. Because i really dont drive it on the street.

 

[chedisme]

I would set the pinion in the best spot. And if the castor sucks i imagine it would be easyer to go back and rotate the Cs then it would be to redo all the mounts.