Transmission identification

[Bloose]

I am trying to determine exactly which transmission I have in my Jeep. Now before you say AW4 it's not the original trans, or motor, and neither are from an XJ. My motor and trans are a 5.2L and 4*RE from a 1997 Dakota. I do not have the VIN from the truck and the trans was not original anyway. I know were the numbers are on the trans but I cannot find a resource to decode them. My Chilton says it is the 42RE for the 4, 44RE for the 6, and 46RE for the 5.2L V8.

The problem is these transmissions require periodic band adjustments and all 3 front bands require a different proceedure. I did the band adjustment for the trans I thought I had and now I am having some issues. As far as I can tell it is acting like the front band is not releasing before the rear band engages. Without know exactly for certain which trans I have I'm only really guessing. If anyone knows how to decode the OEM numbers stamped on the trans and could point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,
B

 

[Tim_MN]

What part numbers do you have ?

 

[GrimmJeeper]

first thing I would do is call a dodge dealer and ask them, if you have OEM numbers.

if you post a pic of the trans filter I could probably figure out what trans it is with one of my parts catalogs. according to my NAPA listings the 36 series trans was also available in that truck in 97.

 

[Digger87xj]

It is a 46re. The rear band is the reverse band. It never applies in any forward gears. The front band applies and gives second gear... a problem with a band will show itself during application.. not release. A slipping or flared 1-2 or 3-2 shift is a band mis-adjustment. A slipping 2-3 shift is a front clutch pack

 

[Bloose]

It is a 46re. The rear band is the reverse band. It never applies in any forward gears. The front band applies and gives second gear... a problem with a band will show itself during application.. not release. A slipping or flared 1-2 or 3-2 shift is a band mis-adjustment. A slipping 2-3 shift is a front clutch pack

I thought I read that the front was for 1-2 and the rear for 3-4. I also thought I read that if the bands are not adjusted properly you will get a howling noise while the front band is still applied while the rear starts to apply. This is what is happening. The main thing is none of this was a problem until I adjusted the bands. I only did it because it is supposed to be done periodicaly.

B

 

[Bloose]

The number on the trans is PK5211955529632205

 

[Digger87xj]

The Dakota 5.2 used a 44RE. All the Chrysler 42/4/6/7/8-RE series are virtually the same internally, only that the larger second number means the trans can handle more torque, so in turn each has incrementally larger internal parts.

There are 2 hydraulic clutch packs( Front and rear), an overrunning clutch, 2 bands, (Front, aka kickdown and rear, aka low/reverse band)
and an O/D clutch pack in it's own housing making up the rear half of the trans.

Simplified:
rear clutch pack applies for 1st,
front band and rear clutch is 2nd
front clutch and rear clutch applied is 3rd
front & rear clutch pack and O/D clutch applies for 4th (O/D)

reverse is achieved with front clutch and rear (reverse band) applied.
In manual low, the low/reverse band is applied to help the overrunning clutch hold the extra applied engine torque.

There are various other components in play i.e. planetary gears, overrunning clutches, servos and accumulators that all together make the trans work in conjunction with the hydraulic clutches and bands, but you get the gist.


The bands on the 44RE are to be adjusted as such;

• Front/Kickdown
  Loosen the locknut 3-5 turns
  Tighten the adjustment screw to 72 in-lbs
  Back it off 2-7/8 turns
  Tighten the locknut to 30 ft-lbs
• Rear/ low-reverse band
  Loosen the locknut 3-5 turns
  Tighten the adjustment screw to 72 in-lbs
  Back it off 2 turns
  Tighten the locknut to 25 ft-lbs

 

[Bloose]

See now, this is why I am so confused. First you said I had a 46RE now you're saying 44RE. That is sort of where I've been struggling. Some placed say with the 5.2L it was the 46 then other places say the Dakotas had the 44. As you point out they are all virtually the same so visual observations are not going to work. No pan bolt counting or pan shape comparing. Then even though they are all very similar externally each one has a different spec for the band adjustment, which unlike most transmission is considered routine maintenance on these.

So it is something you MUST do periodically, the procedure is different on all of them, it is nearly impossible to tell them apart, there is little consensus out there on which is which, and though they are clearly stamped with a number I can find nothing anywhere to decode the number!

To add to this problem the torque procedure you have outlined for the 44RE is the same as the Hanes manual I have outlines for the 46RE. For the 44RE they have listed 2 1/4 turn out for the front and 4 out for the rear! If I could first determine without a doubt which trans I have I would have a huge head start!

Thanks for your input so far, I really do appreciate it, but I'm as confused now as ever!

 

[kastein]

The number on the trans is PK5211955529632205

The first 8 digits after the PK sure looks like a chrysler part number. The rest is probably not relevant or is some other number. Almost all chryco part numbers are:
maybe a P
7, or maybe 8 numbers. A part number that is 7 digits can also be printed as a 0 and the same 7 digits.
one or two alphabetic revision codes after.

So I believe your transmission is a 52119555 which according to my resources, cross references to a 4x4 (line 5) 44RE from behind a 5.2L in a 1997 Dodge Dakota, AN chassis.

It may also fit other years (wouldn't surprise me too much) and other vehicles, but that was the first place I found it and I didn't look much further. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it also fits a ram 1500 with a 5.2 from the same year but that's entirely conjecture.

 

[Bloose]

Awesome! The truck this is out of was definitely a 1997 Dakota 5.2L 4X4 but the trans was supposed to be a rebuilt which means you never really know what it is. With your confirmation now I can try to figure out why the heck the proceedure I have listed for a 44RE is different from the one you have given me.

I believe the last adjustment I did was for the 46RE which is the same as the one you gave me for the 44RE but there is still some noise (a moaning of sorts) between shifts. I hate to have to pull the pan yet again but that is what I think I'm going to have to do.

Thanks,
B

 

[kastein]

Shoulda done a manual

Speaking of which, an NV3500 out of a dodge 1500 should fit your engine out of the box, an NV3550 from a late 90s V6 Dakota should fit too, and so should an AX15 from a 96 through late 90s V6 Dakota. Or an AX15 out of an XJ with the Dakota bellhousing slapped on it. All of em are factory rated for the same 300 foot pounds, all have the same NP231 compatible 23 spline output and 6 bolt mounting pattern. Have someone slap a tune for a 97 5.2 5-speed Dakota ECU on it and I bet it just plain works. Haven't compared master and slave cylinder bores and throws vs an XJ, but the junk slave cylinder from a Dakota I have sitting around here somewhere looked around the same size.

Not that I have a vendetta against 4xRE transmissions or anything. That stupid purple van I towed my crapcan to WF12 with ended up barfing out its 46RE a mere few hundred miles after I got home... talk about luck.

 

[Bloose]

I actually do like manual but only in certain applications. My DD TDI is a stick, and I have a Ford Toploader waiting to go into my 1968 Fairlane waggy some day. For wheeling though I really don't want a stick at all. I'm sure I could make it work but I have enough going on when I wheel that I don't have the need to be effin around with a clutch too. If that makes me a wuss I'm fine with that.

That said, I actually like this trans a lot. Buying it used though, out of a vehicle I couldn't drive, I cannot say if the trans had problems before I got it or not. I'm thinking though that after WF I may pull the motor and trans and rebuild them both. That way I know what I have. They were supposed to both be rebuilt but the D bag couldn't produce receipts after I drove 5 hours to pick the truck up. I heard it run but the truck was too smashed to drive. When I pulled the pan on the motor it sure didn't look to be a low mileage motor. So, I am unsure of exactly what I have.

B

 

[kastein]

haha, that's totally fair. I'm just giving you crap and listing some options if you wanted to go that route.

I'm not sure how much of this applies to a 44re, but here's a nifty rebuild and upgrade thread I found on the 46re when I was planning on rebuilding the van's slushbox: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/46re-tutorial-911009/

It has a million pics in it that should prove helpful, and if the 44re is anything like the 46re, you can use 46re, 47, and 48 series parts as durability and strength upgrades to it while you're in there.

 

[Digger87xj]

Like I said.. the transmissions are exactly the same internally save for physical part sizes. The differences in adjustments of the bands is purely for shift feel. A ZJ driver is going to expect a softer shift than a Dakota driver. If you don't like the way it shifts, change the adjustment. It won't hurt it.

 

[Digger87xj]

I was assuming the Dakota would have the same trans behind the 5.2 as the ZJ, so that's why I initially said it was a 46. Either way, it really makes no difference. Like I said above, band adjustment is application dependent, and you can choose to run it as you like. Tighten it up to reduce shit time and increase 1-2 shift firmness. Use a looser adjustment to increase shift time and a softer 1-2 shift.

 

[Bloose]

Digger,

I seem to be having a problem where one band is applied before the other releases. 2-3 maybe? The Jeep has been on the lift for a few weeks now so I don't remember exactly. After I made the initial adjustment though, as if it were a 46RE, I started getting a moaning noise between shifts and then some flare up too. So my assumption is, especially with the rear band, there is a big enough difference between two turns out and four that it is causing a problem.

I'm actually more confused about which trans I have now. Last night I bought a FSM PDF for a 1997 Dakota. Strangely they list the 42RE, 44RE, and 46RE in the front of the manual as possible transmission. Then in the actual transmission section of the manual they list 3 auto transmission sections. A 42RE section, a 46RE section, and a 45RFE section! WTF? There is no 45RFE option in the front of the manual under which trans code on the VIN tag is for which trans and then no 44RE section in the trans repair section. I could see if they listed the 44 and 46RE as having all of the same procedures but they actually make no mention at all about the 44RE. The 45RFE looks to be completely different so I'm pretty sure I don't have that.

The thing is, baring that all 3 trans' could use the same adjustment and work fine, I'd REALLY like to understand WTF is going on here. I mean, you build a trans that REQUIRES adjustment as routine maintenance and then make it nearly impossible to figure out exactly what you have and which procedure to use. Would it really have been that difficult for Chrysler to use different screw pitches so that each trans used exactly the same procedure?

Hopefully what ever I do will allow it to work well enough to get through Winterfest. After that I may pull everything, engine, trans, and Tcase and go through it all.

 

[kastein]

The 45RFE is likely for the vehicles with the 3.7 and 4.7. I am pretty sure it was only natively installed in vehicles with them.

My understanding was that the 44RE went behind 5.2s and the 46RE went behind 5.9s, except the 46RE also went behind 5.2s in heavy duty towing vehicles (like my van, which came with the 8 lug heavy suspension option even though it had a 5.2, and had a 46RE) but I may be completely wrong.

As for the question of why they would make it so confusing... well... it is chrysler. I thought that's what they aimed for :spin1: they had to go and name their replacement for the CCD bus the PCI bus, which has effectively foiled my research into documentation on it by filling my search results with personal computer PCI bus information instead. And they don't exactly make it easy to decode their VINs, either. I don't think they really give a damn what most people have to go through to maintain their vehicles, they are running on the assumption that you are going to bring it to them, they punch the VIN into their database, it pulls up the build sheet and tells them exactly what transmission it has, so then the tech reads that manual and does what it says.

... actually, if you still have the VIN of the donor vehicle, you could email that chrysler account that people ask for XJ build sheets from and get the build sheet for your donor. That'll settle once and for all what it came with from the factory, from there you are still going to be wondering if it was the original transmission, but based on the part number being one for a 44RE I figure it probably is.

 

[Bloose]

You are likely correct that it is a 44RE. The problem I have is that the FSM doesn't show any procedures for it in the transmission section. Only the 42, 46, and 45, no 44. I was really hoping when I bought the FSM for the 1997 it would have had exactly the correct procedure as that is what I believe a factory tech would rely on.

Believe me I would love to take this into the dealer and have them make the adjustment. That just isn't going to happen. A Dakota motor and trans in an XJ? Plus, you have to drop the trans crossmember just to get at the front adjuster. It is a real PITA all around.

B

 

[Digger87xj]

Really? I have a 5.9 and 46rh in my 95 xj.. no problems accessing the front band adjustment at all. Of course the pan has to be dropped to adjust the reverse band but, really unless it is a plow vehicle, it never needs adjustment. The front one should be done every 30k or so.... whenever a service is done.