Thw AW4 clutch thread

[87manche]

I didn't want to hijack the turbo thread.
But I'm intrigued by an AW4 using a regular flywheel and clutch.
Like I said, I've seen a powerglide setup with one, guy revved the motor to about 3K and dropped the clutch, then power shifted it to second half way down the strip.
Anyway, concerns about the AW4 clutch packs holding up to that sort of abuse?
discuss.

 

[tealcherokee]

the AW4 is beefy..... really beefy.

if i ever get my POS done, ill let you know how it holds up

 

[CW]

Any info on the parts you are planning on using? AX-15 stuff I would guess. How is the clutch operated, with a pedal?

 

[tealcherokee]

yeah, taking the whole clutch set up from an older xj (91-94) w/ the internal slave, it seems easier. im not really working on it yet, i have a million other things to do. and if it gets to the point that i can put a 5 (or 6) speed manual in that will hold up for cheaper, i may go that route

 

[STEELFISH]

The Problem with a clutch in an AW4 is you loose the Torque multiplying effect that we seem to love with the AW4....

Tell me if I am wrong, I have been contemplating this as well, but then you might as well go manual.

 

[87manche]

The Problem with a clutch in an AW4 is you loose the Torque multiplying effect that we seem to love with the AW4....

Tell me if I am wrong, I have been contemplating this as well, but then you might as well go manual.

yes.
but you're not as likely to blow up a friction clutch as a TC, and for racing it's stouter.
The one I saw setup was living behind a built big block.
He said he'd been through 2 high stall TCs, and then went to a friction clutch.
Said that not having the TC made the trans shift from 1st to 2nd hard, but it was a track car, so he likely rebuilt the trans every month anyhow.
I asked him all sorts of questions, and honestly it was the only time I've ever heard of it until the turbo thread.

 

[MudDawg]

Many years ago it was fairly popular to use a foot clutch on a auto trans...I remember a lot of mopars running what they called a clutch flite...the reasoning was that with a heavy flywheel it would launch hard....and with the auto, you wouldn't miss shifts.....it was still as hard on the drivetrain from
shock...improvements in torque converters and the advent of the Lenco and other overrunning transmissions pretty much put an end to the clutch flite.

Still if you can make it work...it will be kind of unique.

 

[lawsoncl]

Sounds like a novel idea. Any concerns about the fact that first gear on an AW4 is 2.80:1 versus the 3.83 of an AX15?

 

[5-90]

I actually saw a setup on large forklifts where there would be a clutch with a 3-speed auto (THM400, I think) - and the bellhousing was a "special" in order to house both a torque converter and a flywheel setup for the clutch! I need to wrack my addled brains to recall how the whole thing was put together - I seem to recall that the flywheel was a part of the torque converter, perhaps it used the TC for weight and simply provided a bearing surface - but it was interesting, and I've thought on and off about trying to duplicate it for off-road use.

Hell, first I should try to remember who made the lift. Massey-Fergusson, perhaps?

That would give the best of both worlds, I think.

5-90

 

[jeepnuts311]

i have thought about this as well for different situations including fast launches and being able to push in the clutch to help with 4LO braking, rather than shifting to neutral. this application probly wont be beneficial in any other aspect of wheeling, other than braking.

but, how would the AW shift automatically with the clutch? wouldnt you need to push the clutch and allow it to shift? wouldnt this be hard to time (rpms and shift timing)? the only time the auto/tc is not slipping is in OD, right?

-Tim

 

[tealcherokee]

i have thought about this as well for different situations including fast launches and being able to push in the clutch to help with 4LO braking, rather than shifting to neutral. this application probly wont be beneficial in any other aspect of wheeling, other than braking.

but, how would the AW shift automatically with the clutch? wouldnt you need to push the clutch and allow it to shift? wouldnt this be hard to time (rpms and shift timing)? the only time the auto/tc is not slipping is in OD, right?

-Tim

no, TC doesnt need to slip to allow it to shift.

 

[markw]

IMHO this is a drag racing thing guys have been doing for the last 20 years or so. I wouldn't run one on the street, and there's definately machining involved. It will cost you a good chunk of change to do it since you'll be the only one with a clutch AW4. Here's a quick rundown on planetary gear transmissions.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission.htm

 

[Rev Den]

Hot Rod mag did an piece a while ago...like 20 years...about a poor mans Lenco. Basically a THM400 with a clutch.

Good for the track, and that is about it.

Rev

 

[tealcherokee]

no one has said why it wouldnt be good for the street

 

[rocklandxjer]

makes the tranny shift from 1st to 2nd hard. bad for tranny... unless, like stated above, its a track car, which gets rebuilt after every raceday

 

[jeepnuts311]

makes the tranny shift from 1st to 2nd hard. bad for tranny

unless you are leaving it in 1st and wheeling with it to get the multiplication of the TC and the ability to push the clutch to make it possible to stop completely in 4LO without having to shift to N.

sounds cool to me

-Tim

 

[87manche]

Many years ago it was fairly popular to use a foot clutch on a auto trans...I remember a lot of mopars running what they called a clutch flite...the reasoning was that with a heavy flywheel it would launch hard....and with the auto, you wouldn't miss shifts.....it was still as hard on the drivetrain from
shock...improvements in torque converters and the advent of the Lenco and other overrunning transmissions pretty much put an end to the clutch flite.

Still if you can make it work...it will be kind of unique.

thanks for all that info.
I didn't realize that it was popular back in the day. THe guy running it was definitly an old timer.
Had a helluva car though.

 

[badron]

unless you are leaving it in 1st and wheeling with it to and the ability to push the clutch to make it possible to stop completely in 4LO without having to shift to N.
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He is not running a torque converter and a clutch he is replacing the TC with a (more or less) stander clutch
So no TC multiplication would be available.
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Why not on the street?
The shift is very harsh. On icy roads it would be (IMO) very hard to use as a DD.
The auto trany depends a LOT on the natural slippage of the TC to absorb the shock load on the gears and shafts of the auto trany.
Without the TC the auto do breaks a LOT. Racers lived with this short life span. I don't see you doing all this to baby it so don't look for 100,000 miles on this set up.

You will need to regear to get the same craw ratio as even an AX15 much less that of a stander auto trany.
I believe you are talking mainly street use so the regearing would just need to be a step or two to get the same acceleration as the AX15 on stock size tires. More on bigger tires or if improved acceleration is wanted. Even deeper gears would be need if both condition apply.
It will work. It would be cool. It would break. LUCK

 

[jeepnuts311]

.
The auto trany depends a LOT on the natural slippage of the TC to absorb the shock load on the gears and shafts of the auto trany.
Without the TC the auto do breaks a LOT

ok, that is what i was wondering. earlier in this thread i asked about the slipping being necessary for shifting and someone said it wasnt necessary. i would like to use the TC and a clutch if it was possible, but not replace the TC with a clutch.

-Tim

 

[badron]

i would like to use the TC and a clutch if it was possible, but not replace the TC with a clutch.
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Way over my head. One thing for sure you are going to need one big a$$ bellhousing,