Software for brakes, yah right

[Starboard M]

OK less of this: aperwork and Nerd stuff more Toyota accelerator issues! You may as well be speaking Swahili to me!

No chit!


You nerds need to find a server room to talk about all this pointless dribble. :laugh3:



From my experience, there are engineers who are book smart and those who can actually apply the basic concepts they have learned and apply it to the real world.
I have friends who are doing engineering majors, and while they are bright guys they are struggling in all of their classes. But they are the guys who enjoy building and designing things that work in the real world and not designing some model that only works on paper.




If this is an engineer bashing thread, can we talk about torx bits too?

 

[kastein]

YES :twak:

Whoever decided Torx was a good idea obviously never heard of rust.

 

[FlexdXJ]

YES :twak:

Whoever decided Torx was a good idea obviously never heard of rust.

Nor did they have any common sense! :doh:

 

[joe_peters]

Yeah, but they work real good with robotics on the assembly line.

 

[UNCC_99XJ]

I graduated with a 3.03. Somehow managed to pull all As my last semester, well, rather, failed everything I didn't ace - WPI has the A/B/C/NR (No Record) system, so it affected my grades just like the ones I failed didn't even exist.

Yeah, I cut it a little close...

I took a big hit last spring...didn't do very hot in Thermodynamics or Economics. The only parts of Thermo I did well (or semi-well) in were Heat/AC systems and The otto cycle. The first part of Econ I did good in as it was basic Econ, and the rest was a total blur (and IMO, was stuff that was completely irrelevant to what an Engineering major should know). The teachers that I had for both of them left a lot to be desired, but I did the best I could and still passed them.....not very well, but passed none the less. Completely turned it around last semester with all A's and B's in my Engineering classes and one not so hot grade in a effing liberal study (there's one very important word in LIBERAL study...but that's a different topic for a different day). The way I saw it was, all A's and B's in my core classes and a not so hot grade in something that i'm being forced to take by the University because it's going to "better my education"...must mean I picked the major that's at least halfway right for me.

If I do A's and B's again this semester, I should graduate with around a 2.8-2.9...which is fine for me. If a company can't see that i'm better at practical work then book/paper work, then I don't want to be working for that company anyways.

 

[5-90]

Yeah, but they work real good with robotics on the assembly line.

BINGO!

Which is why Camcar-Textron invented the Torx drive in the first place (go check it out at their site - they don't say anything about servicing. Just automated assembly.)

After all, if you can save a nickel over a production life of ten million pieces, you've saved half a million dollars. That's why most HDD assemblies use little tiny Torx heads (usually a T5 or T6,) and why most compact consumer electronics use heads in the T5-T10 range - and they're making thousands of these things in a month. Times whatever they save in using Torx over Phillips or hex (don't even talk to me about slotted - I don't know why they're still used in electrical applications...) Every month.

Manufacturing accountants are not in the slightest concerned with later servicing - they plan on the stuff being thrown away anyhow!

 

[Starboard M]

Yeah, but they work real good with robotics on the assembly line.

Explain to my feeble little mind how a torx works any better than a normal bolthead. Ive never had any luck putting on or taking off a torx bolt.



I can understand the reasoning behind the items 5-90 suggested, but why use them on Jeep items such as seat belt bolts, fender bolts, throttle body bolts and Im sure the 200 other small little things that they decided to use them for on the Cherokee.

 

[UNCC_99XJ]

I can understand the reasoning behind the items 5-90 suggested, but why use them on Jeep items such as seat belt bolts, fender bolts, throttle body bolts and Im sure the 200 other small little things that they decided to use them for on the Cherokee.

Not just Jeeps, domestic vehicles period. Ford is well known for Torx bits as well.

I can handle the seatbelts, fender bolts, etc etc bring Torx. What ticks me off the most is the oil filter adapter bolt....a T60..come on now!

 

[5-90]

Not just Jeeps, domestic vehicles period. Ford is well known for Torx bits as well.

I can handle the seatbelts, fender bolts, etc etc bring Torx. What ticks me off the most is the oil filter adapter bolt....a T60..come on now!

Yeah - but when you assemble the engine outside of the vehicle, the T60 isn't a problem.

You want bad? I once had to do an RMS (one-piece!) on an early 1980's MBZ 450SEL - the two-seater job. In order to get to the bellhousing screws, I had to use enough extensions to reach them from over and behind the axle! At least they were ISO hex...

 

[Wayne Sihler]

Ok ,now that we,ve solved the toyota problem,and the Torx screwing (love them on the throttle body). What about electric steering ??

And the ABS,ESP and all the other "nanny" systems that remove direct driver input, Oh yeah, the computor knows how to drive better than I do.
Wheel spin--not needed ,that semi will stop..

Wayne

 

[gambit4000s]

You want bad? I once had to do an RMS (one-piece!) on an early 1980's MBZ 450SEL - the two-seater job. In order to get to the bellhousing screws, I had to use enough extensions to reach them from over and behind the axle! At least they were ISO hex...

on the 126 chassis it's slightly easier to lower the subframe, but make sure you get time for an alignment(ETorx on a BMW isn't much better)

Back on Toyota, the brake system problems on the Prius are related to the regenerative braking, 80%-ish of the braking capacity is handled by the ISA(integrated starter alternator, large coil converts mechanical energy to electric, then rectified and stored in the 42Vdc battery system) The drag of the ISA is regulated by varying the field(similar to the voltage regulator function in a standard alternator) by increasing electrical output of the ISA drag is increased, thus more braking.

The "tune" of the ISA regulation in relation to brake pedal position sensor is the issue that is being addressed with software upgrades. It is a very fine line to balance, most consumers are used to a certain "feel" in the brake pedal, and 100% of that "feel" is simulated(by "feel" I am referring to both pedal resistance and related brake application).

In an attempt to continually increase mileage and maintain a perceived advantage over european diesels, Toyota has most likely "tuned" the drag application slightly slower to reduce unneeded application. They may have gone slightly too far, as customers are beginning to notice the delay.

The electronic controlled hydraulic brake system is used during panic(high load) stops. I have not see any instances of failure in this system, the only issue seems to be in initial application, when the mechanical system is not even in use.

As far as steering (such as BMW's system) IIRC the steering angle sensors are tested to one million cycles, far in excess of the life span of a rag joint or a dozen other components in a true mechanical systems, The feedback systems I don't believe are tested as stringently.

In respect to a computer not knowing how to drive better than you, it is merely making choices based on inputs, and that it can do better and faster than a human, when the programming and hardware are such that it can compensate for every variable that a human can, it would be possible to drive better than a human. but that will be limited by the human building it, and humans are not really know for their precision (in general)