S10 leaves to get 2"?

[burntkat]

Folks-

I have a 97 XJ I got for my son. We are going to lift it 3", using Pro Comp #55592 coils up front, with shackle relocation boxes (I'll fabricate) out back. The box itself should give about an inch of lift I figure, with a stock shackle. So I need about 2" of lift in the spring itself.

My factory springs are rusty as all get out. I have several sets of S10 leaves laying about doing nothing, from my SAS swap on the S10 (see sig). Those were too soft in that application so I went to Dakotas. Does anyone have a "recipe" of sorts, what leaves I'd need from the S10 pack to mix in with what leaves of the XJ pack, to keep my lift around 2" from spring , in order to match or give a slightly arse-high stance with the 3" coils up front?

I am aware the front coils will sag over time. That's pretty standard with coils. By then I will have installed a set of ACOS. For now I am simply trying to clear a set of new 31s I took off the wife's jeep, as this XJ needs new tires. The tread on the present tires is mostly gone, and I get DW about 61mph. All of the suspension bushings appear fine, and the front wheels are definitely missing balance weights and oddly worn. Thus, the most obvious cause of my DW is in the rotating assembly.

I know what a bear DW can be to suss out. I am going to be going to aftermarket adjustable control arms, with poly bushings. I'll be refreshing all the joints up front as well, but they aren't necessarily indicated for replacement right at the moment.

TLDR: How can I get a 2" lift in the rear using stock springs with S10 springs mixed in? Which leaves do I need to mix together?

Thanks!

 

[Green XJ Jeep]

I think this is around 3ish inches but gives the basics
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3c8swLMirAM

 

[burntkat]

He even mentions how to get 2"... which turns out was what I figured (leave out the main S10 leaf).

Many thanks!

 

[JohnX]

I wouldn't leave out the s10 main spring, in about 2 years you will fatigue the xj main spring and it will crack in two. Leave out a shorter leaf if you really want less lift.

 

[lazyxj]

Folks-

TLDR: How can I get a 2" lift in the rear using stock springs with S10 springs mixed in? Which leaves do I need to mix together?

There is no exact formula for building bastard spring packs.
Each added leaf has its own characteristic and the result of adding it will not be known unit the pack is bolted together.
The resulting leaf pack is the result of adding all the springs together and seeing what happens, each leaf is unique.
Each XJ has a rear different weight loading so the resulting lift is based on many variables.
You add and subtract leafs until you are satisfied.
I built three packs, soon after buying the XJ, and was never satisfied with adding leaves to the old springs, they collapsed within a few thousand miles.
Search and you will find most have the same issues with "Add a Leaf" lifts.
One good spring can't force the old, sagged springs into a taller lift for long.

If you have a lot of old spring leaves, buy a new set of u-bolts and several center pins and have some fun experimenting.
It's a cheap way to learn how leaf springs work.
Disassemble and de-rust all the usable leafs, painting them before proceeding.

 

[burntkat]

I'm aware how leafs work- check my signature. While I'm surely not an expert in all things 4X4, this isn't my first rodeo. Not even my first XJ. I've forgotten a lot of what I knew in the early 00's about these particular trucks.

Completely agree that leaves wear out over time and I'll just be bandaiding them together. I know that this is not a permanent fix by any means, and XJ leaves are notoriously fragile in terms of cracking the mains. I have every intent to eventually (next year or so) replace the rear homebrew pack with a purchased pack. It's just not in the cards right now- I have 80' of driveway to pour, and a roof to replace on the house... plus a kid that's going to be going to college in another few years. This is just something I can do for now, to get the altitude, in a safe manner, in order to run the 31s. If it lasts me long enough to swap the D44s into my XJ and start gathering parts for his axles, that will be just fine for me.

Meantime, I don't have a lot of excess time to spare playing with leaf springs, so if someone's been there done that the info would be helpful.

I get your general point about saying there will be variance among leafs, but when it comes down to it all XJs are more or less the same cargo capacity and weight if they are automatic/4 door/4.0-equipped. There's a variance of a few hundred pounds at most I'd think- there was never a one-ton XJ from the factory in other words. So I'm not looking for someone to give me a recipe to get me exactly to 2"- thereabouts is fine. I can make up the difference with shackle length or (oh the horror!) a block.

(for the record, I don't use manufactured blocks- I build mine out of steel, plate or heavy-wall tubing as needed. Failure is not an option!)

TLDR: I know a few things about leafs, just trying to get a shortcut here if anyone has done this already. I *will not* take shortcuts that are dangerous, as my son will be driving.

 

[Green XJ Jeep]

If you leave out the main s10 leaf you might want to leave the longest (not counting main) xj leaf in to help support the main leaf.

 

[Tim_MN]

I have had excellent results with the RE full length Add-a-Leaf, and with building bastard packs from both XJ and S-10 spring packs. My 98 has 267,000+ miles and the 3 inch lift bastard pack uses the original stock XJ main leaf.

Here is a thread with some AAL and Bastard Pack recipes and results >>> http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1073516. A stock donor XJ main leaf and the next longest donor XJ leaf trimmed down slightly, should give you about 2 inches or so.

Whatever spring pack you use for a donor, cut the bushing eyes off of the main leaf, and use that directly under the stock XJ main leaf. This will greatly reduce the potential for the XJ stock main leaf to sag excessively.

 

[JohnX]

I did a set last week, not using s10 leaves for what it's worth.

I used a complete xj set with an additional xj main, and xj third. Netted about 1.5" over stock, rides nice, clears 31's for street use.

 

[burntkat]

I have had excellent results with the RE full length Add-a-Leaf, and with building bastard packs from both XJ and S-10 spring packs. My 98 has 267,000+ miles and the 3 inch lift bastard pack uses the original stock XJ main leaf.

Here is a thread with some AAL and Bastard Pack recipes and results >>> http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1073516. A stock donor XJ main leaf and the next longest donor XJ leaf trimmed down slightly, should give you about 2 inches or so.

Whatever spring pack you use for a donor, cut the bushing eyes off of the main leaf, and use that directly under the stock XJ main leaf. This will greatly reduce the potential for the XJ stock main leaf to sag excessively.

Good info here. This is exactly the wosrt of thing I was hoping to see. Thanks!

 

[burntkat]

Looks like there are some takeaways I'm finding. I'll sum them up for folks that might be looking for this info in the future...

-Always go long to short, top to bottom, when building leaf packs
-in the event you're using two identical leafs, cut one of them to stagger the pack. Best approach is to "diamond cut" (angles) or round nose the leafs when cutting. Deburr the cut.
-While you have them apart, clean and paint them. Slipplate is a good lubricative paint if you can find it.
-Leaf liners are a good idea. Teflon slip pads that go between the leafs.
-Support the XJ main leaf as long as possible, with a second leaf. A good approach if using a second XJ main leaf is to make your cut about a quarter of the way around the loop so that the second pack supports the entire main with eyes included- similar to a poor man's military wrap.
-Stay away from add-a-leaf solutions as (with few exceptions) they just add spring rate and stress out the other leafs, and will soon sag.
-Either reuse spring clamps or band the pack together to keep the leafs from splaying out. Best approach is a clamp that is open at the top in order to stabilize the leafs side to side but allow them to freely slip along each other along their length.

Seeing all this, I'm going to try the S10 bastard pack with an eye to getting 2", using the XJ main leaf, S10 main leaf cur to support the full length of the XJ main, then the rest of the S10 pack with the possible exclusion of the shortest leaf. It will take some experimentation, but once I have the pack apart and prepped it's not difficult at all.

 

[CarbonXJ]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1039922&page=2

I built bastard packs with my first lift. I found that using a combination of XJ leafs gave the best ride and lowest ride height. A Ford Ranger leaf was the ticket for me, however, with a 3" lift and a really nice ride.

 

[burntkat]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1039922&page=2

I built bastard packs with my first lift. I found that using a combination of XJ leafs gave the best ride and lowest ride height. A Ford Ranger leaf was the ticket for me, however, with a 3" lift and a really nice ride.

Thanks.
I have several sets of S10 leafs on hand- a pair from a 98 and a set made into a bastard pack for my S10 SAS (they are actually two sets, intermarried, with the appropriate shortened leaves where they are duplicate).

I will be able to do the back half of the lift for free. I have plenty of junk laying around.. and no, I will not be half-arsing it.

Honestly, if I really looked I bet I have a set of ZJ V8 UC coils somewhere as well. Those would get me approx 2", and a spacer would level things out.

Heck, for that matter, I have a set of XJ ACOS laying around doing nothing.. but in fairness those are slated for the wife's ZJ.