Requirement for a trailer endorcement?

[AJPulley]

I had mentioned in another thread about requiring an endorsement on a regular driver's license in order to tow a trailer behind any vehicle. So, I wanted to see how many would be for it or against it.

I know there are a lot of variables. For example: maybe only for trailers with GVWRs of over 1,000 pounds or thereabouts, maybe exempt those who have CDLs, require a class or test, maybe not let persons who have held a license less than two years pull anything in tow... etc.

I'm just wondering how many think an endorsement of some kind should be required to tow a trailer, to help make it a bit safer out on the roads?

I don't know about everyone else, but I've seen my share of trailers in ditches or the trees, on their sides, weighted wrong, no safety chains, different sized tires on the same trailer, no lights in the back, stuff falling off of the trailer and onto the highway, driving way too fast (or driving way too slow from under powered or ill-equipped tow vehicles), accidents from not being able to stop, etc.

What do you think?

 

[5-90]

Mixed feelings here. On the one hand, I think it should be required - simply because I see so many trailers that are rigged wrong (I tell you, how hard is it to realise that there isn't any weight on your front wheels?) loaded wrong, or unsecured.

On the other hand, given the history of our government, how effective do we really think this will be? We've got DMV passing incompetent drivers (people who should not be allowed within fifty yards of any motor vehicle much less in control of one!) and untrained drivers (just see a current batch of driver's ed running about,) and also the fact that if something is regulated, it will be misregulated, regulated by the unknowing, or too many useless rules passed just to increase revenues, and I think it's a bad idea.

What to do? First, reform the government - get some common sense and logic involved, rather than knee-jerk emotion and "just do something to get it done!" and get some sense in order there.

THEN, think about passing some sort of regulation that might enhance safety, and not to increase revenues (come to think of it, I'd not be surprised if most traffic laws that don't bear directly upon safety - stopping for red lights, for instance - were passed instead as "revenue" measures for municipalities. Something to work on...)

However, with everything in its current form, it will be misapplied, and turned against everyone just to raise money for cities - many of which are going broke.

5-90

 

[sidriptide]

I had mentioned in another thread about requiring an endorsement on a regular driver's license in order to tow a trailer behind any vehicle. So, I wanted to see how many would be for it or against it.

I know there are a lot of variables. For example: maybe only for trailers with GVWRs of over 1,000 pounds or thereabouts, maybe exempt those who have CDLs, require a class or test, maybe not let persons who have held a license less than two years pull anything in tow... etc.

I'm just wondering how many think an endorsement of some kind should be required to tow a trailer, to help make it a bit safer out on the roads?

I don't know about everyone else, but I've seen my share of trailers in ditches or the trees, on their sides, weighted wrong, no safety chains, different sized tires on the same trailer, no lights in the back, stuff falling off of the trailer and onto the highway, driving way too fast (or driving way too slow from under powered or ill-equipped tow vehicles), accidents from not being able to stop, etc.

What do you think?

honestly. sounds like a new "tax" that will have more of a financial impact for the state than the overall amount it would make the roads safer.
i'd support "inspections" of trailers for saftty before i'd support another fee for me to pay when the real problem is education of those offenders.

 

[old_man]

Just a minute while I sell my Uhaul stock.

 

[DrMoab]

Before they make you get an endorsment for trailers I would rather see them have to get one for Moterhomes and rental trucks.

Driving for a living I see more people do stupid things in these than about anything.

Something else to consider...You have to go through quite a bit of training to get a CDL and drive a truck but you still see truckers upside down in ditches all the time too.

Just because someone can pass a test does not make them good drivers.

Look at all the wrecks people get in just driving regular cars.

 

[bajacalal]

5-90, I agree with how you feel.

On one hand, I think there should be a special endorsement to drive anything larger than a sedan-wagon. Nothing complicated, just a basic assuance that the person is fully aware of the special concerns involved with controlling a larger vehicle.

On the other hand, I am a rather hard line civil Libertarian (if that exists) and I think there is too much regulation and that the DMV is already too cumbersome.

 

[WB9YZU]

Another "There aught to be a law" post...great

Who thinks up all this dumb crap anyway! Next thing you know, you'll need a special endorsement on your birth certificate to take a crap because many people can't do that right either!

Perhaps there should be a law that prevents folks whose anus won't dialate beyond 1mm drive at all. That way they wouldn't see the other "infractions" and get upset.

Pass this around at your local U-Haul, club meeting, or whatever instead. http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/towing/index.htm

Sorry this sounds harsh, but I am sick and tired of all the new laws since 9/11!

 

[5-90]

Since 9/11? Hell man - I'm sick of all the new laws PERIOD!

I get tired of finding law libraries larger than medical libraries!

And, the fact that the California Vehicle Code (paperback, available from DMV) is larger than most trilogy novels I've read - revolting.

Two things just got to happen...

1) Scrap the legal system and start over. I've said this before. American law is almost ready to collapse under its own weight - shall we help to prevent it, or watch the collapse? I'd like to prevent it - with a simplification of law, rewriting the system, and making it something that anyone with an eighth grade education - or higher - can keep up with and understand (yes, I want laws written in plain English - if you need a translator to help you understand the rules you live under, then they're badly written. Save the fancy language for the courtroom - and use it rarely, even then.)

2) Minimise growth. As part and parcel of the new legal system, include a measure that states that for a "new" law to pass, and "old" law must be redacted - unless the need can be proven to be so overwhelming that the new law is passed unaccompanied.

Civil libertarian? I'm one of the LAST people you'll ever hear say "there ought to be a law" - and the purpose of law should be to prevent individuals being harmed or wronged by other individuals. The purpose of law should NOT be to protect governments, nor to allow the wronging or harming of individuals by government, except by a preponderance of evidence (and in cases where other individuals were previously harmed by the actions of another. I don't see a lot of reason why the laws under which we live (Federal, state, and local) can't be fully enclosed within a "pocket manual" or a book about the size of a large paperback novel - nor do I see any reason why a law should NOT be able to pass without public notification - and the only reason you miss the fact of it is that you've been living under a rock for the last ten years.

Will it be a lot of work? Sure - what worthwhile isn't? But, it needs doing desperately, and damn well better get done before we have worse trouble.

I shan't go into other reform ideas here - since they aren't the subject of this discussion. Still, they're in the works, and I do need to write them up just for giggles...

5-90

 

[WB9YZU]

The point I was making, and I susepct your are making 5-90, is that we create laws at the drop of a hat. Most of the laws cover just one incidence and are never used again, or repealed when outdated. In an effort to protect the rights of individuals, we make laws restricting those rights :wierd: ; how lame is that!

Back to the trailer "endorsment". The majority of people towing trailers as Private Carriers show good sense when coupling and loading their trailers. Sure there are the idiots, but then there always will be. There are trailer laws in every state in the Union and they cover how to use a trailer. It is up to the motor vehicle operator to read and understand regulations which apply to the load which they are carrying. It is up to the State Patrol or LEO to enforce those laws.

You know what are really dangerous? Bicyclists. You can take a licensed automobile driver and put them on a bicycle, and suddenly, they have no common sense.

 

[5-90]

Re: Requirement for a trailer endorsement?

The point I was making, and I susepct your are making 5-90, is that we create laws at the drop of a hat. Most of the laws cover just one incidence and are never used again, or repealed when outdated. In an effort to protect the rights of individuals, we make laws restricting those rights :wierd: ; how lame is that!

Therein lies the screw - a lot of those silly laws aren't repealed when dated - and that's why I'd like to pass a "zero growth" measure. There are a number of laws limiting the actions of the people, and not enough (and even fewer followed, I'm sure!) limiting the actions of government.

The first business of law should be the protection of the individual from other individuals. Laws against murder, rape, assault - all good things. Traffic codes? Only those necessary to ensure the safety of drivers and to allow for controlling the flow of traffic.

However, law - especially traffic law - has become little more than a "revenue-enhancing" measure, by assessing fines for things which should not even be infractions, the municipalities can make money without actually producing anything. Read my other posts to see how I feel about that.

Flipside - if we're going to issue licenses for anything (driving comes to mind - it's not a right, it's a privilege!) we should take care to ensure that those who are licensed are trained and can be (somewhat) trusted to carry out the activity that is licensed - like driving.

This means:
NO incompetent drivers (and, by extension, NO incompetent examiners or trainers. Both can and should be held to a much higher standard. Still lower than the standard to which I hold myself, but higher than they are now.)
YES to be checked out in any situation in which "the common driver" may find himself. This means you should (potentially) be tested with a 1500-2000# trailer - loading, connecting, backing, and parking (connected and disconnected.) Vehicle inspections? Good idea - check them out on those as well.
NO training material in other languages. The road signs are all in English, the police (don't get me started here...) all speak English, and you're going to be interacting with other motorists in English, if there's a problem. Consequently, you should be able to speak, read, and write English - if you can't, you can't drive. (Call me cranky. I've had to request cops who spoke languages I didn't in some accidents - accidents that should not have happened and were cause by the inattention of the other driver. I figure that because I wasn't moving at the time.) Yes, I speak several languages - I've also been a "world traveler." However, here I speak English primarily, and I expect everyone else to do much the same. I don't think it's too hard - most of the languages I've learned were for countries I was "only visiting" at the time...

That's all for the moment. I'll work on it some more, if prompted.

5-90

 

[deadmeat]

Living in Texas the bigger the truck the bigger the Peni.....I know first hand that alot of these people cannot drive these trucks and really can't drive the trucks with trailers attached. I can count at least 4 wrecks a day involving missloaded,or wrongly hooked up trailers. Keep in mind I stay in a 20 mile radius 85% of the time. And yes that couch on the side of the road that hit someones car is your responsability cause you forgott to tie it down.

 

[WB9YZU]

If someone disconnected from this issue, like from Mars, read this they'd get the impression that there is a car/trailer accident every 5 miles and an abandoned couch on every corner. This is simply not the case.

 

[kawijames]

HAHAHA you know what i ment lol i see a couch on the highway about once a week just left there and all the wrecks seem to be in that same location they cannot seem to negotiate the gentle cornor on the highway lol

 

[jpfreak]

Yes and no.

I'm confident in my driving, but not over-confident. I'm 18 (and I'm gonna get shit for this) but I've had more experience driving than the other guys from my highschool that I know (about 70,000 miles since I got my license). Towing isn't that difficult if you don't act like an idiot. Idiots don't just tow trailers, they ride sport bikes, drive sedans, etc...eliminating the trailer doesn't eliminate the idiot.

Half the people shouldn't have licenses either way. I knew people who wouldn't drive "because it was raining"...damn...How do you learn to drive in the rain?

Maybe an impossible-to-earn-endorsement if you want to tow with an XJ? That's just bad news.

 

[Begster]

Re: Requirement for a trailer endorsement?

I have mixed feelings on this, but I totally disagree with the whole not letting somone who has had their liscence for less than 2 years tow anything. Im 17 and to tell you the truth, I drove more cars with boats attached to them and going in reverse than cars without trailers, and this was before I actually got my learners permit. I would always move around my dad's boats in our driveway for him, so I got plenty of practice backing up and driving them around, I could back a 24ft Grady White around a corner into a space that has probably 2-3 feet on either side of the boat when its parked. 3 days after I got my permit, I was trailering my dads 19ft Skiff around, and then he felt that I had enough practice, and so I drove it over the Sagamore bridge that connects Cape Cod to the mainland, (this is a very narrow bridge that was bilt when cars were a lot smaller) I'm like jpfreak, I don't mean to be cocky or anything, but I can probably trailer better than half the people around. And I really wouldn't like it if someone told me I couldn't trailer a boat because I haven't had my liscence for 2 years, while the guy over there has had his liscence, and just sideswiped another car because he took a corner too sharp.
Its like when my mom first said I couldn't drive in the snow because I didn't have enough experience. Just because she is scared to, doesn't mean I cant, and the only way to get experience, is by actually doing the thing.

I think that people should excersise extreme caution when trailering, if you haven't done it before, learn how. don't be stupid, its always at least one guy who thinks the rules don't apply to him, and ruin it for everyone.

We should be more concerned about Old people driving than people driving trailers, I think I would rather have a trailer (without a huge boat on it) swing around and hit me than an old lady hit me head on with one of those massive lincoln town cars, cause you can't be an old person unless you have one of those types of cars.

Now for the off topic part...

NO training material in other languages... Consequently, you should be able to speak, read, and write English - if you can't, you can't drive. I speak English primarily, and I expect everyone else to do much the same.5-90

All I have to say to that is DAMN STRAIGHT. Before you get all mad and think I'm an assh*le, this country was founded by the english who spoke...English, Its been spoken as long as this country has existed. This is one tradition I think we should keep, why should I have to learn another language to speak to someone else in my home country, it should be the other way around. Its just like this fuss over holiday tree instead of christmas tree, and how we shouldn't make people mad. If you don't like what I call something, all you have to do is go hug a tree. (reminds me of the time when the lady got Married With Children canceled because she didn't like the show and couldn't just turn the channel, like a civilized person would have done.) I'm from Cape Cod where the Pilgrims landed so they could practice their religions freely without anyone to bother them, now these people are trying to take away what this country was founded for. If you can't speak "American" then get out of America.