please critique this estimate from a local 4x4 shop

i think the consensus is to do everything yourself except the diffs. Drums I can understand not wanting to touch the drums as well, but everything else you can basically pull off and put on.

Depends on your time and money. You have the money and not the time, give it to the shop.

You have the time and no money, do it yourself.

Have both? Lucky bastard!
 
I'd do most of it myself, only thing i wouldn't do is the flushes, no way you get the same advantage as a complete flush with the machine when you just drain, change de filter and refill, the machine makes the new fluid circulate and traps the old fluid. Other than the flushes, you can do all of this by yourself pretty easily. Prices are high imo.
 
that's what I'm thinking....DIY on all but the diff. there seems little point to turn rotors or drums when the replacement parts are the same cost. new > old.

thanks for the comments guys....I'm gonna see how flexible they are on doing the diff svc and BG stuff as a package deal. I still plan to call another shop to check the diff cost.
 
I used to work for a local auto shop, and the labor prices are about right, but the markup on the gaskets???? I did the valve cover gasket on my 88 xj and the gasket was a wopping $12.47 (shop cost).

Also as to the actual labor costs your estimate is based on the shop manual's times, NOT the actual time it would take though they'll still charge you for that time.... If you are going to have them do it, bring it in for 1 problem, say front brakes, and watch how long it actually takes the mechanic to actually do it and see if you get the actual time or the book time charged against you.

I remember a customer came in with an older european model jaguar that had been factory modded for extreme cold weather(brought over from norway) that needed a new heater core, the jaguar manual called for 47 hours of labor to do the job. that'd be about $3500 in labor against a $199 part. our shop did the job in about 15 hours with 2 people on it, or about 30 hours total labor time.

As the others say, most of what you're looking at you can do yourself if you're halfway handy with tools and have the time. as for the flushes, I agree that BG is about the best, but you do pay for it.
 
PGT FTW said:
I picked up an '01 XJ and had it looked at. I've already replace the front wheel bearings, rotors and pads. Some of this work can do myself (rear brakes and valve cover for example). The labor looks to be a flat rate....no idea of the hourly they're charging (though it looks to be fair at roughly $80/hr).

2001XJ.png


Please comment on which items are DIY for a guy who's done turbo rebuilds, headers, etc....above average for a shadetree. Also...how fair the prices are....seem high to me, but that's par for the course in this inflated area.
Click to expand...

This is why I hate shops. I know they have to make a profit, believe me, I'm a business man myself BUT...so they are basically telling you...

1)...it is going to take 4x the time to replace the oil pan gasket as it will for the valve cover gasket. :bs:They have it up on a lift, if your jeep is lifted they won't have to undo anymore connections or whatever than they will by doing the valve cover. 2x longer...yeah maybe if they are amatuers but I would hope they wouldn't have a labor rate of $80 an hour if they are amatuers.
2)...they think you are stupid because you can buy the best valve cover gasket for less than half of that. That goes beyond "having to pay rent, etc...", that is ridiculous.
3)...it is going to take longer to replace the oil filter adapter gasket than it will for the valve cover gasket EVEN THOUGH THEY WILL HAVE GREAT ACCESS TO IT WHILE EVERYTHING ELSE IS OFF. Again...:bs:
4)...it is going to take 2 hours to do a front only brake job. Reoccuring theme here...:bs:. I just changed all four out on a WJ in 1 hour...in my garage.

I could continue to go on but you get the picture. At least try negotiating a better deal than that if you are going to have them do the work. Use that logic while talking to them. Also, be careful on the tranny flush with cleaners and conditioners. One of my good friends knows these things like nobody else and doesn't recommend doing a power flush on the tranny OR using any cleaners or conditioners. Just do a normal fluid exchange. Good luck with them if you choose to use them. If I was you, I'd attempt most of that myself, yeah maybe let them screw with the wheel bearings and the pinion bearings.

Also, here is how I look at it. By doing that myself, I just saved at least $1,000, with that money I could go buy a winch and something else. Is it worth trading a winch plus something else cool for that work to be done when you could do it yourself? I usually tell myself NO, it's not.
 
I pinged them about the costs. They told me that's what their system pulled up but they adjust the bill to actual costs (usally lower). It's a CYA estimate. Frankly, I want an accurate one, not a worst case one. I don't think that's too much to ask.

The front diff service is about $700...that's where my noise is coming from. If they would do that, the oil pan, water pump and valve cover for $1k (BG stuff extra), I'd take it there tomorrow. That to me is a fair price, not the $1650 they are asking for.
 
the other thing I dont think has been brought up is that a $96 valvecover gasket cost the shop up to 20% less than it does you. If you pay for a gasket and pay $25 the shop probably only paid $15 at the same store. I work in retail parts and most shops get a great discount that is almost as much as my employee discount. Some stuff they get half off.

The parts markup on that quote was ridiculous.
 
BruceB83 said:
1)...it is going to take 4x the time to replace the oil pan gasket as it will for the valve cover gasket. :bs:They have it up on a lift, if your jeep is lifted they won't have to undo anymore connections or whatever than they will by doing the valve cover. 2x longer...yeah maybe if they are amatuers but I would hope they wouldn't have a labor rate of $80 an hour if they are amatuers.
2)...they think you are stupid because you can buy the best valve cover gasket for less than half of that. That goes beyond "having to pay rent, etc...", that is ridiculous.
3)...it is going to take longer to replace the oil filter adapter gasket than it will for the valve cover gasket EVEN THOUGH THEY WILL HAVE GREAT ACCESS TO IT WHILE EVERYTHING ELSE IS OFF. Again...:bs:
4)...it is going to take 2 hours to do a front only brake job. Reoccuring theme here...:bs:. I just changed all four out on a WJ in 1 hour...in my garage.
Click to expand...


it doesn't matter if your vehicle is so modified that you could do all of those jobs without even opening your toolbox. when you drive into the service drive and ask them to fix your car, they look up the job in the computer. click the checkbox next to it, and it adds BOOK TIME.


so if the booktime on the valve cover is (just for example) 4hours. and it takes the mechanic 1hour, you will still pay for 4hours.

on the flip side........

mechanics get PAID book time. so if a job pays 1hour, and it takes the mechanic 4hours (which can happen with some jobs that it physically takes longer than booktime. specially with old rustbuckets), then he still only gets paid 1hour.

i've seen a mechanic at a dealership get paid 1/2hour for 2 days of work..............he was chasing an intermittent electrical problem. so if he was getting $24 an hour, that means he only got paid $12 for 2 days of work.


automotive business is a rough business (just like many other service businesses). the mechanics are bitching because they get screwed on work, and the customers are bitching about the repair costs.

as i said earlier. if you don't want to pay those prices, then people need to do their own work. if you don't want to pay for the repair work, then how are the mechanics supposed to get paid to fix your cars??? a business isn't just trying to make enough profit to pay rent. they also have to pay the mechanics. and for alot of the tools (and we're not talking $50. try more like $1,000 $2,000 $3,000 $5,000 $7,000+ for one single tool).

oh and what about warranty??? you want that too don't you??? so you have your buddy fix your car for a case of beer. but if something goes wrong because either he screwed up, or the part was defective then you have to pay again.

but if the shop fixes it, and they screw up the work, then the shop has to pay for the mechanics mistakes and fix your car. and if the part is defective, then we have to fix it again. so suddenly that 4hour job now was twice as long because of a stupid defective part.



overall, there is alot more to automotive repair facilities than people think. there are alot of things that cost money being used that people don't realized.
and the prices also kind of depend on location and business size.

a smaller business in a non-competetive place might have higher prices because they don't have competition. that same place in a location with 20 other shops will have lower prices to be able to compete.

and a smaller or newer shop will also have to make sure they cover their expenses and make enough profit to continue business where a shop that's been there for 20 years and is the size of walmart, has alot more business and more income that they can lower the prices enough to run the little guys out.



sorry if i'm coming across as rude. this isn't so much directed at the original poster, as it is at some of the people that are continuously beating down auto repair shops. having been one of the people that used to complain about shop prices, and now own my own shop i see both sides. which is why i try my best to help people keep the cost down, but at the same time. if i don't pay my bills and expenses, then i won't be around to continue providing quality work.
 
scorpio_vette said:
it doesn't matter if your vehicle is so modified that you could do all of those jobs without even opening your toolbox. when you drive into the service drive and ask them to fix your car, they look up the job in the computer. click the checkbox next to it, and it adds BOOK TIME.


so if the booktime on the valve cover is (just for example) 4hours. and it takes the mechanic 1hour, you will still pay for 4hours.

on the flip side........

mechanics get PAID book time. so if a job pays 1hour, and it takes the mechanic 4hours (which can happen with some jobs that it physically takes longer than booktime. specially with old rustbuckets), then he still only gets paid 1hour.

i've seen a mechanic at a dealership get paid 1/2hour for 2 days of work..............he was chasing an intermittent electrical problem. so if he was getting $24 an hour, that means he only got paid $12 for 2 days of work.


automotive business is a rough business (just like many other service businesses). the mechanics are bitching because they get screwed on work, and the customers are bitching about the repair costs.

as i said earlier. if you don't want to pay those prices, then people need to do their own work. if you don't want to pay for the repair work, then how are the mechanics supposed to get paid to fix your cars??? a business isn't just trying to make enough profit to pay rent. they also have to pay the mechanics. and for alot of the tools (and we're not talking $50. try more like $1,000 $2,000 $3,000 $5,000 $7,000+ for one single tool).

oh and what about warranty??? you want that too don't you??? so you have your buddy fix your car for a case of beer. but if something goes wrong because either he screwed up, or the part was defective then you have to pay again.

but if the shop fixes it, and they screw up the work, then the shop has to pay for the mechanics mistakes and fix your car. and if the part is defective, then we have to fix it again. so suddenly that 4hour job now was twice as long because of a stupid defective part.



overall, there is alot more to automotive repair facilities than people think. there are alot of things that cost money being used that people don't realized.
and the prices also kind of depend on location and business size.

a smaller business in a non-competetive place might have higher prices because they don't have competition. that same place in a location with 20 other shops will have lower prices to be able to compete.

and a smaller or newer shop will also have to make sure they cover their expenses and make enough profit to continue business where a shop that's been there for 20 years and is the size of walmart, has alot more business and more income that they can lower the prices enough to run the little guys out.



sorry if i'm coming across as rude. this isn't so much directed at the original poster, as it is at some of the people that are continuously beating down auto repair shops. having been one of the people that used to complain about shop prices, and now own my own shop i see both sides. which is why i try my best to help people keep the cost down, but at the same time. if i don't pay my bills and expenses, then i won't be around to continue providing quality work.
Click to expand...
Geeez, calm down man. You don't have to tell me about how a business runs...I do business consulting and strategy work...you are not telling me anything new I promise. You can't tell me that it makes sense BOOK time or not, that they charge 4x the amount for an oil pan gasket than a valve cover gasket and then more for the oil filter adapter gasket than the valve cover gasket. It doesn't make sense. I changed a oil filter gasket in under an hour in my driveway...come on now. That's what I'm saying. Look, as a customer, it's all about PERCEIVED VALUE...not what some stupid book tells the shop to charge. My perceived value on a new oil pan gasket is NOT 4 times the amount for a valve cover. If a shop wants to be successful, they better realize that because at the end of the day the customer pays the bills, not the book that told them how many hours to charge.

My point in my reply to him was to make him think what it's worth TO HIM. Regardless of how much the shop is charging, I was telling him to think what else he could have for that money and decide if having it fixed is worth what he'd be giving up in money saved/new parts he could get if he did it himself. That's all. I'm not beating down or complaining about the prices...now I was stating that their logic behind the prices seems very skewed to me but again, as the customer, that's my perceived value.

When I was deciding to fix my rear main on my own or bring it to Jeep to have it fixed, I thought about what I could buy if I just dealt with the PITA-ness of it and did it myself. I could buy an Aussie locker. To me, I'd rather fix it myself and have the Aussie. That's how I always decide...and yet I've only once brought my vehicle in anywhere.

And yeah, it did come across as a little snappy at the end. ;)
 
wolfpackjeeper said:
the other thing I dont think has been brought up is that a $96 valvecover gasket cost the shop up to 20% less than it does you. If you pay for a gasket and pay $25 the shop probably only paid $15 at the same store. I work in retail parts and most shops get a great discount that is almost as much as my employee discount. Some stuff they get half off.

The parts markup on that quote was ridiculous.
Click to expand...

right....jobber rate vs. retail over the counter.
 
more than that actually. The more that shop spends at say Advance Auto, the more of a discount they get. I have seen it list below jobber prices for large accounts. At first I thought, cool, this way they can save customers money. But no, they sell the part at MSRP, I know this because when they call they almost always want to know what list is so they can bill the customer that price.

List price is somewhere between 50 and 200% over retail.
 
exactly why I felt that quote was out of line. If I can get things cheaper over the counter, then we know they're not doing me favors at 2x the cost.
 
OK, I read most of the posts.

What I want to know is...

Is this rig just oozing oil? Should the Governement be looking at it as a source of oil?

Why all the gaskets and seals (pinion bearing rebuild?)?

Why all the Flushes? Did you sub the thing?

Brakes and Brake Cylinders? What have you been doing to this thing?

Gee Wally, my XJ has 195 Thousand miles on it and the only fit the powertrain has caused me is a bad alternator, u-joints, front hubs, and the usual fluid changes.

Unless you are handicapped (which I can see being a problem) or totally without (also a problem in some circles ;) ) you can do most all maintance to an XJ yourself. Heck, do you guys remember the "How to keep your VW alive, for the complete idiot" book? I knew I guy who didn't know a screw driver from a dinner fork, yet he managed an engine rebuild with the aid of that book.

How hard can it be ... :D

Ron
 
it's dripping oil, not oozing. less than a dime size spot per day. I bought this Jeep about 5 weeks ago and had a shop look at it for a list of issues to keep an eye on. The front pads were down to 2/32 and the rear shoes were done. The rear cylinders need to be replaced...per the shop's inspection.

I have no idea what was done before I owned it, but I'm the third to drive it. First was a Hilti salesman (obvious from vinyl that was on the doors...in the sun you can see where the logo covered the paint). The second was a student at VA Tech...drove it lots of highway miles (135k on the clock). There's a stack of receipts for normal stuff.... A/C, oil sending unit, etc.

I plan to keep this awhile...maybe even a trail rig down the road. For now, it's used for Home Depot runs and taking my daughter to daycare (my other car is a MINI Cooper S with Recaro seats that are a pain to move to get her in the backseat).
 
Take some time and look for the oil leak yourself. Tighten pan and valve cover gaskets. It is likely they just "Shotgunned" the estimate.

Same deal with the brake cylinders. Many folks don't want the reservice later, so they just figure them in to avoid problems.

All Jeeps mark their spots. My YJ does the same thing. A drop every now and again and I'm too lazy to look for it.

Based on the actual problems you found, the flushes are without merrit, though you may want to do a tranny filter replacement for grinns.

You can probably get done what you want in a relaxing couple of evenings in the garage and not even have the vehicle down for a day.

Ron
 
I've checked....the valve cover is a mess, as is the oil pan and the front diff. I haven't bothered to get in there with a socket and tighten things up....certainly can't hurt as long as I don't over torque anything.

I've got a 'whoop whoop whoop' noise in the front diff. I can live with it, but if servicing it now means not needing to replace it later, I'll service it.
 
Zuki-Ron said:
Take some time and look for the oil leak yourself. Tighten pan and valve cover gaskets. It is likely they just "Shotgunned" the estimate.

Same deal with the brake cylinders. Many folks don't want the reservice later, so they just figure them in to avoid problems.

All Jeeps mark their spots. My YJ does the same thing. A drop every now and again and I'm too lazy to look for it.

Based on the actual problems you found, the flushes are without merrit, though you may want to do a tranny filter replacement for grinns.

You can probably get done what you want in a relaxing couple of evenings in the garage and not even have the vehicle down for a day.

Ron
Click to expand...
x2

Gotta love a valve cover gasket that costs more than the oil pan gasket. That must be the highest performance valve cover gasket on the market :laugh:. If you don't want to do the messy work, bring them the gaskets and parts and have them put em on, if they don't do that, find someone that will!
Thats really sad how they want over 500.00 for oil pan and valve cover gasket replacements. I just did a RMS on my 94 for 150.00, that includes 7 quarts of Mobil 1 and all the parts needed. And a cork valve cover gasket is only 5 bucks.
 
cork ones leak like a damn sieve. you can buy a nice felpro permadry rubber one for 20.

Did both my oil and valvecover gaskets with the felpro ones and after 10k miles on the rebuilt stroker I have zero oil leaks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
Anyone in CT looking for a XJ? Not Selling, Just Passing on the information
Replies
0
Views
474
Ghetto2315
G
Back
Top