Patents...
- Thread starter CherBear
- Start date
RTicUL8
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rocky Mountain High... Colorado!
Call this place: http://www.referrallist.com/leyendecker-lemire-llc-national
They're in Colorado, but offer services nationwide.
They have a free 1/2hr. initial consultation.
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They're in Colorado, but offer services nationwide.
They have a free 1/2hr. initial consultation.
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- Location
- Seattle, WA
Cost is probably north of $10k for a lawyer.
It will take approx 3-4 years to issue from the USPTO if all goes smooth.
It will take approx 3-4 years to issue from the USPTO if all goes smooth.
old_man
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Loveland, Colorado
You can do it yourself, but you still are looking at better than $1000 in filing fees. You likelyhood of getting it granted go up greatly with a lawyer. The steps and rules are extremely tedious and intolerant. All drawings have to be done to strict standards.
The most expensive part used to be the patent search. That can be done online now. Personally I think it is best to do your own search anyway, because you understand what you are looking for better than anyone else.
There is a good book out there called "Patent it Yourself"
The most expensive part used to be the patent search. That can be done online now. Personally I think it is best to do your own search anyway, because you understand what you are looking for better than anyone else.
There is a good book out there called "Patent it Yourself"
- Location
- Manassas, Va
The filing fees for a "small entity" (i.e. student, university, small company) will be about $500 with large entity (i.e. large corporations) being about $1000. The average time is about 18 months from date of filing until the application is looked at by an Examiner, but then depending on how prosecution goes (i.e. getting a patent right off the intial filed application or getting a rejection and having to file amendments), a patent could be had in anywhere from 2-4 years on average.
Also, there are fees involved when/if an application is allowed for issuing the patent.
The best advice would be to do some research into what is involved in filing for a patent and looking a the USPTO's webpage (http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/).
I have no knowledge of what patent attorney fees are, but it would also be another area to research and weigh against trying to file on your own.
Good luck with your invention.
Also, there are fees involved when/if an application is allowed for issuing the patent.
The best advice would be to do some research into what is involved in filing for a patent and looking a the USPTO's webpage (http://www.uspto.gov/main/faq/).
I have no knowledge of what patent attorney fees are, but it would also be another area to research and weigh against trying to file on your own.
Good luck with your invention.
Coastie
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Upper Peninsula, Michigan
So what did ya invent?
Ecomike
NAXJA# 2091
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
Basic filing fee for an individual is $165 ($82 if you use the electronic method).
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009september15.htm
Patent agents, are a lot cheaper than lawyers, by about 1000%. You can write your own patent applications. No formal drawings are required unless your application is approved, IIRC. I paid an agent to proof read my first 2 applications. Cost me about $300 for that. I spent about $70,000 on attorneys and PTO fees on my last application, as investors were involved. Not really sure it was worth the extra money, as far as the final patent was concerned.
You need to decide why you want a patent. In many cases it is best to make the application, and drag out the process as long as possible, to keep costs down, while trying to make and sell the product. If the product is a flop, drop the application, or sell it to someone who wants to pursue it further. If the product is a success, continue the patent application and keep it or sell it to investors. The key is keep the up front costs down while you work on commercializing it. You can also file a provisional application with just 1 rudimentary claim, that gets you a filing date, or invention date, holding spot, and that gives you 12 months to file a formal application based on the original preliminary date, and puts off the other fees, like examination fees. The provisional application fee is $110.
That gives you a date priority over others that might file after you, and allows you to disclose and sell the product with a pending patent application claim on the literature.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee2009september15.htm
Patent agents, are a lot cheaper than lawyers, by about 1000%. You can write your own patent applications. No formal drawings are required unless your application is approved, IIRC. I paid an agent to proof read my first 2 applications. Cost me about $300 for that. I spent about $70,000 on attorneys and PTO fees on my last application, as investors were involved. Not really sure it was worth the extra money, as far as the final patent was concerned.
You need to decide why you want a patent. In many cases it is best to make the application, and drag out the process as long as possible, to keep costs down, while trying to make and sell the product. If the product is a flop, drop the application, or sell it to someone who wants to pursue it further. If the product is a success, continue the patent application and keep it or sell it to investors. The key is keep the up front costs down while you work on commercializing it. You can also file a provisional application with just 1 rudimentary claim, that gets you a filing date, or invention date, holding spot, and that gives you 12 months to file a formal application based on the original preliminary date, and puts off the other fees, like examination fees. The provisional application fee is $110.
That gives you a date priority over others that might file after you, and allows you to disclose and sell the product with a pending patent application claim on the literature.
- Location
- Manassas, Va
The basic filing fee may be $165, but the $270 (small entity) basic search fee and $110 (small entity) basic examination fee are required at time of filing as well, so $545 ($462 if filed electronically) in total.
- Location
- Manassas, Va
I read this after my last post, and I agree with you. I just can't stress enough that the non-provisional case has to be filed on or before the 12 month mark. It would be terrible to lose the earlier filing date on a technicality. All that a provisional requires is (taken from http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/provapp.htm):
A filing date will be accorded to a provisional application only when it contains:
•a written description of the invention, complying with all requirements of 35 U.S.C. §112 1st paragraph and
•any drawings necessary to understand the invention, complying with 35 U.S.C. §113.
- Location
- Pekin IN/Louisville KY area
A 2000 article in Time Magazine approached this same subject. Time Magazine - The Right Way to Obtain a Patent
There are two inventors that I've talked to fairly recently that actually make a living at inventing or creating. They are convinced that in most cases it is not worth their time & effort to get a patent. Not that the invention is a bad idea though since it may be great. They say two things make this so. First, it is just too easy for a hack to tweak one little aspect of the invention and the patent is useless. Second, when someone does copy the invention then you must be willing to spend 10k+Thousands of dollars in legal fees defending the patent.
They are convinced it is better to spend the time & energy developing and promoting their inventions. Both of these guys had a few things they'd patented because of the way they intend to market the item.
In fact, some of you guys may find this interesting:
PursuitHook - Police pursuits come to a controlled ending
There are two inventors that I've talked to fairly recently that actually make a living at inventing or creating. They are convinced that in most cases it is not worth their time & effort to get a patent. Not that the invention is a bad idea though since it may be great. They say two things make this so. First, it is just too easy for a hack to tweak one little aspect of the invention and the patent is useless. Second, when someone does copy the invention then you must be willing to spend 10k+Thousands of dollars in legal fees defending the patent.
They are convinced it is better to spend the time & energy developing and promoting their inventions. Both of these guys had a few things they'd patented because of the way they intend to market the item.
In fact, some of you guys may find this interesting:
PursuitHook - Police pursuits come to a controlled ending
souske
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The land of competition
F that pursuit hook. Good luck getting my xj with that thing!
Ecomike
NAXJA# 2091
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
The search fee and examination fee is not required for a provisional application in the first year.
I am not sure if the search fee (search) it is ever required. I think you can do your own search, but I am not sure on that. I think the examination fee can be delayed until well after the search is complete, if you order a search. IN other words the costs can be delayed and staggered.
Ecomike
NAXJA# 2091
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
Nice thing about a provisional is it allows one to show it to potential investors, and to sell the product to end users with out fear of loosing the invention to copy cat thieves, IF it turns out to be worth protecting. Cheap insurance.
I used provisionals on all my patents.
Now, to just figure out how to make back enough to at least break even on all those overpriced legal fees.:doh:
There is a lot to be said for spending a lot more time on getting the product to market, profitably first. In todays world a new invention can become obsolete long before a patent is ever issued.
Unfortunately, in my case, I was way before my time. By the time the market accepts some of my inventions, the patents will probably have run out, if I live that long.
That said, if you think you have a patentable idea, you should search the USPTO database (FREE now!, it Use to cost $$$$$$s) and read up on prior art (prior patents and previously disclosed stuff), as it may help you improve on your own ideas, while giving you a much clearer idea of where your idea stands.
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- Location
- Manassas, Va
I'm sorry, I though you were talking about a non-provisional application. Looking in the MPEP (section 601.01b) and it states "The basic filing fee must be paid in a provisional application on filing or within the time period set forth in 37 CFR 1.53(g)", so you are correct.
As far as delyaing costs and other things, I'm not sure about that, but checking fees isn't what I'm supposed to worry myself with. I have to know about fees, but not check to make sure that they are correct.
Also there are other patent and non-patent databases found through Google that will help you attain the status of the prior art.
