Overheat at Idle

[gradon]

You pull the rail off the intake manifold, but leave the injectors clipped into the rail and connected to harness. Cycle the ignition on and look for leaks.


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[TheSloMoShow]

Ah, I see. Sounds simple. I'll give it a shot.

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[Overland]

Mine is Spectra as well......how did you know yours was junk?

Because it would overheat at idle and during angry interstate driving with the air on. I'm on the third one as of last week. Cap flange is weak and releases pressure to the overflow instead of holding it back to spec.

Lifetime replacement looks better than annual on paper, but I haven't had to pay more than frustration. I chased my tail for a whole year over that stupid thing, first one was bad out of the box but I ignored it because it was new. It finally gave itself away by gushing from the cap unabashedly. Second one proved bad after being parked about a year, cap flange again. I have a year to find a quality radiator that is not Spectra, because I don't intend to replace this one again with the same.

That said, Spectra radiators are JUNK.

 

[Overland]

You won't see a leak, but it'll get hot and fill up the reservoir. The reservoir may overflow. Can't be the radiator because it's new, but in this case it probably is.

 

[TheSloMoShow]

My reservoir does fill a little, but not by much. It goes right back down after I shut off the vehicle and it cools down.

Wouldn't a bad cap be the result of not holding back enough pressure, not the flange?

 

[Overland]

Not when you replace both at the same time. Also, a new cap didn't correct the issue, but a new radiator did.

It took me a year to figure it out the first time. It was much better than the leaking factory unit it replaced, but it wasn't the night and day solution it should have been.

I should also point out that I had an idiot light back then, which only came on to inform me it was already boiling. I swapped the cluster soon after. I found that I could slip into neutral, hold the engine at 2k, and it would cool itself. It would heat right back up after a few minutes at highway speed. Lots of summer days with a good AC system I couldn't use as a result.

If your issue gets worse, I'd especially expect the radiator.

It's like the cheapest one on the market. Anything is an improvement from there.

 

[Overland]

I replaced the first one in a parking lot out of state, believe me when I say I tried a new cap first.

 

[TheSloMoShow]

Because it would overheat at idle and during angry interstate driving with the air on.

If you don't mind me asking, what temperature(s) are you referring to when you say "overheating"?

Just curious.

 

[TheSloMoShow]

So a bit of good news has finally come my way.

1) I received my report today from Blackstone Labs. It's confirmed that no water/anti-freeze in my oil. 0.00%. Phew.

2) I used the blue liquid combustion leak checker to test for hydrocarbons in the coolant. Stayed blue. Phew again.

3) Ran a compression test. Plugs look good, and compression results are as follows. Triple phew.

Cylinder 1 = 160
Cylinder 2 = 150
Cylinder 3 = 150
Cylinder 4 = 155
Cylinder 5 = 155
Cylinder 6 = 150

Plugs look good.

So I think I can rule out any possibility of a cracked head, or blown head gasket. Although I'll probably have to keep an eye on it in the meantime.

With this being said, it has to be the injectors. I'm going to pull them this weekend to check for leaks. I think I may just upgrade to OEM flow rate Bosch 0280155784 just to be sure this variable is eliminated from the equation.

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[Overland]

In the case of idiot lights, boiling over qualifies as overheating. When the light comes on, it's hot.

Operating temperature is about 210°, and when the gauge indicates what's probably about 250°, I can touch the hose and feel boiling coolant, especially if I shut it off. I prefer to run the heater in this case and increase rpm so as to cool it down quickly, which works most of the time even with a faulty cap flange. This is pretty inconvenient to do, especially on long trips through the desert, so I'm going to solve it before it happens again by paying a little more for a better radiator.

1st one was bad out of the box. 2nd lasted a year. 3rd is going to be given away before the usual problem develops along with the lifetime warranty info. If your problem persists after your injector swap, you might reconsider it.

 

[TheSloMoShow]

So, I was looking at new injectors to swap in this weekend or early next week.

My original thought was to buy Bosch 0255180784. I've seen some threads rave about this injector.

These are rated 21.3lbs/hr @ 43.5psi or 223cc/m @ 3 bar. Very close to OEM spec, this data I got from CityMaker.

But I've also seen some conflicting information on the forums that the -784 is very similar in flow rate to the EV1 connector -703 (closer to 24lbs/hr at stock FRP, much higher than the required 22.5lbs/hr).

So I'm dumbfounded.
I'm not sure what the correct spec is for this -784 injector.

If it's truly closer to 24# at the rated Fuel rail pressure of 49psi, then I may go with Ford XF2E-C4B's instead.

In the end, I'm just trying to get OEM spec injectors with 4 pin-hole pattern. My Jeep doesn't warrant the need for beefier injectors lol.

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[TheSloMoShow]

I guess this begs the question, is it better to install an aftermarket injector with a higher or lower flow rating than OEM spec (assuming you cannot find exact match)?

From what I've read, I hear our PCM can generally handle a LTFT of -/+ 10%, but any higher than this amount in either direction is generally frowned upon.

So, should I find an injector within 20.25-22.5 lbs/hr, OR, 22.5-24.75 lbs/hr?

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[gradon]

I guess the question would be do you have any breathing mods that would take advantage of slightly larger injectors?


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[TheSloMoShow]

I guess the question would be do you have any breathing mods that would take advantage of slightly larger injectors?


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Not really.

Just this custom intake with BBK filter.

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[TheSloMoShow]

It has to be the injectors, at least 2 - 1 in each bank is leaking. LTFT's are progressively getting worse, now -13%. This is just at idle, as soon as I get going again (say 1.5-2k) on the highway the LTFT's drop to between -3 & -6%.

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[McQue]

Ypu might want to read thru this thread and the link to an article about injectors..

http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=947286

 

[TheSloMoShow]

Ypu might want to read thru this thread and the link to an article about injectors..

http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=947286

You wouldn't happen to have the original article EcoMike posted would ya?
It comes up empty.

Right now, both banks are reflecting the same STFT's and LTFT's.
So I know it cannot be just one bank with a leaking injector, if that's indeed the issue.

If I replace the injectors, and confirm they aren't leaking and the issue isn't going away then I'll have to look into possibly replacing O2 sensors or the darn Spectra radiator.

 

[old_man]

Looking at those plugs, it looks like you are running a bit lean which will cause it to run hot.

 

[TheSloMoShow]

I thought about that. The ground electrode does look a little heated at the base by the threads. Granted my O2 sensors are working correctly, if they truly are reading rich but I'm running lean then it would have to be a leaking injector(s).

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[Overland]

For some reason I feel a leaking injector would show up on its respective spark plug.

Have you probed the manifold flange with carb cleaner?