OPINIONS: FSJ Wagoneer

[AndyS]

I posted this in the non-XJ tech section too, but wasn't sure if it'd get the right traffic or not (I apologize in advance)....


OK; I'm giving some very serious consideration to replacing my beloved XJ with a full size Grand Cherokee/Grand Wagoneer. The full frame, leaf springs, v8 (360 or 401) plus just being a bit bigger are the prime reasons for the consideration. That being said, I don't know much about them. I live in Massachusetts, so I have two choices:

1) Buy the newest one I can and keep it fairly stock so I can pass emissions.

2) Buy one older than 1983 so I don't have to take the emissions test.

I prefer the older, round headlight, non-wood grained models, but finding one without rust (and keeping it that way) will be a chore. I'd love a late 70's 4 speed with a 401 and zero rust, but I'm not sure if they exist outside a museum. My only big requirement is that since it's replacing my current XJ as a daily driver, I must keep it reliable, and any projects must be able to be accomplished in 2 - 3 days.

I'd like to lift it about 2-3 inches and stick 31-32's under it. Should I look for particular years for different x-fer cases/axles/tranny combo's? Everything else being equal, I'd prefer to stay away from Quadra-Trac's, just for mileage's sake.

Where do they rust? Are they reliable? Do they wheel well (mild)? How are the brakes? Do I go old-and-simple, or is new-with-power-everything the way to go? I'm a bit of a minimalist myself, but I do need A/C.

Thanks for your opinions, those in the know!!

Andy

 

[Eagle]

I had a '78 Cherokee 360. My brother also had a '78 -- his was the "wide wheel" version that came from the factory with 31x10.50R15 tires. Mine was a 4-door and I migrated up to 31s. The rear wheel arch on the 4-door was too small to put the tires on when jacking under the axle, although once on they were fine. I bought mine used, though. I was the third owner and the rear was sagged quite a bit. I put in a Rancho AAL and all was fine after that.

Unfortunately, where they rust is the frame and the gas tank. Being in Massachusetts, that's what you'll have to look out for. If you find one, get it to a dealer or an independent service station, have it put up on a lift, and give it a careful inspection. The rear quarter panels are also prone to rust, but you can buy replacements for those from JC Whitney (they fit pretty well -- I replaced both sides on mine).

 

[Scott Mac]

I've always wanted a wide axle FSJ Cherokee to tow my XJ with.

I'd say buy one of your choice and add it to the fleet instead of replacing one. Use for a tow vehicle/daily driver and build up your XJ.

 

[AndyS]

Unfortunately, I don't have the room right now for 3 vehicles (plus two sleds and two bikes...). That might happen in 3-5 years when the "dream home" is built :>).

Eagle, regarding frame rust; is there a particular area that rots out, or is it just all over? Any other body places to watch for like windsheild frame, tailgate, etc?

Do you think it's worth the hassle of buying a Southwestern Jeep? When they say "rust free Arizona car", are they really, or are they just a time bomb waiting for their first winter with salt? Finally, what do you think a fair price for a clean southwestern example would be? (that's probably a loaded question, but I'll ask it anyways...) I don't mind paying for it if it's worth it.....

Thanks again, and keep the opinions coming!

Andy

 

[Flowers]

I've been shopping for Grand Waggy for a few months now to use for a tow rig. What you should look for is rust under the rear section of the frame, rocker panels and floor boards. Headliners were prone to sagging. The stock carburators are junk. The transmissions are questionable. I can't give you much info on the trannies other than several that I have looked at had smoked transmissions. The rear window motors are usually not working or are very sluggish. Most of the "common problems" are miniscule if your a decent shade tree mechanic. I decided to looke for a 96 or newer that would serve as a good foundation for temporary DD and tow duties and eventually see a complete renovation. If you want a low mileage Southern State Waggy with under 100,000 miles expect to pay in the neighborhood of 7-10 big ones.

Just 10 minutes ago I unloaded a 86 off of the trailer that I virtually stole from a used car lot. It has 130,000, a bit of rust here and there, and a few of the "common problems" listed above. As it is, I could probably DD it, and pull the soon to be finished rig around the U.S. for 2 or 3 years before any major malfunctions.

If your really into the Grandwaggies check this site
www.wagonmaster.com

 

[Eagle]

The frames rust all over (under???). Yes, I think a rust-free southwest vehicle is worth looking for. And when they say rust-free in AZ, they do mean it. Why do you think the USAF mothballs all its old aircraft at a base in southern AZ?

On the '78s, the carbs were Autolites and they were, indeed, junk. However, the manifold will easily accept a nice Carter AFB (or Edelbrock clone thereof) and that's a much better carburetor.

The tranny on mine was a GM TH400. Nothin' wrong with that.

 

[Flowers]

Eagle,

Were all of the trannies GM TH400's? I've "read" that they were AMC 400's. You would not believe how many I have called about that had bad trannies.

 

[LRRH]

ooppss!!! i posted in the other forum but I'll copy it here for all to see!

oh geez......since I'm a moderator at www.ifsja.org I guess I should answer this one. =)

First things first....my 70 Wagoneer is the MOST RELIABLE vehicle I have ever owned. Period.........every day it just goes.

Now to address a few of your points.

Rust

-It may be true that the only rust free one's are in museums.......(ok ....probably not) but if you want one that clean you will need to get it from the SW USA or from someone who has stored it a LONG time. Typically.....they rust in the rear quarter panels first( I know...what doesn't). The other problem with these rigs( or the guys who designed them) is that they put a skid plate over the gas tank and no drain holes! You will also usually find the skid plate rusted off or worse.....spreading rust to the frame. This is probably the most important spot to check for rust on and FSJ you are thinking of purchasing. Driver's floor pan would be the other prime location to check.

Old vs. Newer

Personal Preferance....Older. I like the round headlights......I like the simplicity......no emmisions crap...yaddah, yaddah, yaddah. Biggest difference is after 1979 they started using the TF727 instead of the TH400....and they switched to NP xfer cases instead of Quadratrak BW1339(with auto) and Dana20(with manual). Before 1974 will all be Dana 20 xfer case. Quadratrak will not effect your mileage adversely like you think it will. Any FSJ with a V8 (350,360,401) will not get better than 15MPG tops. PERIOD. They do make a part time conversion kit for the QT as well.

Power

Engines can be fun...especially if it is the 401. But please...don't expect to get more than 12MPG from one. The 401 was only offered from 74-78.....and it never came with a 4spd manual from the factory...only a TH400. Jeep did make a T18 that can stand the abuse.....but it is some work to get one swapped in.

Lifts

There are plenty out there....and they are EAASY to install. 3" of lift and you can fit 31s on a NT(Wag or Chero). you can fit 31s on a stock WT(Chero or Jtruck).

Off-Roading

I personally attended the Ouray, CO invasiojn last year and saw a whot lot of these beasts in action. VERY capable. Not as comfy as a coil sprung XJ....but very capable.

Feel free to ask more questions or wander over to www.ifsja.org

 

[Georgia Mike]

I've got an '83 SJ Cherokee. It was an original Arizona vehicle,the title prooved that when I bought it from a local guy in my area. I can tell you right now,it's definately worth the effort to seek out a SW vehicle. I have yet to find ANY rust on this rig. I use mine to flat tow my XJ with (well,once I get that blasted fuel pump replaced ) and it's a great ride! The 2 door models (like mine) are a rare find in my area,and almost every time I take it out I get looks and compliments on it. I've even had a couple of folks chase me down wanting to buy it! They are great rides,and I even like the "Woodies". They just look sort of classy to me,but I'm strange like that :laugh: Anyway,as far as wheelin' is concerned,I'd rather 'wheel my XJ. It's smaller,lighter,and those two traits alone make drivetrain components last. For a DD,if you don't mind 8-12 MPG,go out and find yourself a nice rust free SW SJ,but for 'wheelin,I'd have to stick with the XJ

My $.02