octane booster

[markaboo929]

anybody ever try xylene or toluene for an octane booster.all ready know that some of are gonna ask y or what for.i have an ignition advance controller on my renix driven 4.0 and have dynoed an extra 18 hp just from timing adjustments,but...i have slight pinging only at part throttle.small autozone bottles like 104 octane boost and stp octane boost are pure garbage and do nothing.any other ideas?

 

[old_man]

Yes for over 30 years. I sold commercial fuel additives about 30 years ago and they were made up of Xylene, Toluene, and Napth, plus a few secret ingredents. Mix the three up in equal quantaties then use 2oz per 10 gallons of fuel. Most don't have acetone because it can be harmful, especially to earlier model cars not set up to run alcohol enhanced fuels.

 

[markaboo929]

i have been using acetone @ 3oz per 10 gallons of fuel.works good for some increase in mileage.i just used 1 gallon of xylene per 17 gallons of 93 octane and i can fully advance my ignition "box" with only slight pinging.if i use a small amount like you had suggested it may not be suficient enough for the results i need.i can get vp racing fuel 103 octane unleaded at the pump 5 miles from my home,but...8 dollars a gallon! the xylene was 5 dollars a gallon.i have been on the internet surching about xylene and toluene and was curious if others here have tried it.was the consentration u used help ful and what caused u to need it as well?

 

[markaboo929]

oh yeah i fergot to mention i also add 6 oz of marvel mystery oil(lubricant) and 4 oz of injection cleaner(cleaning agent) to make up for the lack of those items in the added hydrocarbons.to even out the "octane" level.soo al together i have 5 oz of acetone,6 oz of marvel oil,4 oz of injection cleaner,1 gallon of xylene to about 17 gallons of 93 chevron fuel.i am also checking mileage while in the mix.i 'll update when available with results and mileage after a few tank fulls of coarse for somewhat consistent results.if anybody is iterested....that is. :chef: :dunno: :flame: heh heh heh

 

[old_man]

I guess you are the poster child for "if a little is good, alot is better". I would be worrying about your O2 sensors using that much Xylene and additives. Xylene around here is about $10 a gallon in cans. So you are adding about a dollar a gallon with all your additives.

Why?

 

[markaboo929]

the WHY answer would be in my first post as to power and pinging.i looked at a LOT of posts on other web sites and forums on the effects and what other had experienced and decided to try it.i am not a chemist or such.i only have 1 o2 sensor to be concerned with,my cat is gone(none-present)besides the o2 i got has a life time warranty!!!!all in all i am trying to retain the power level i achieve from high timming advancement and the need to keep from detonation just to make sure my 4.0 stays a 4.0.and not a 2.0 plus 2.0.if the small bottles in the stores worked i would use those instead.i understand your reply about more is better,but,in this case so be it.have you had or heard of just a small amount that u recomend doing the same thing-or is that realy based on a 1 to 1 basis-i dunno- it is good to get some feedback though.

 

[karter74]

what kind of ignition advance controller do you have? Did you make it or is it something you purchased?

 

[markaboo929]

it is called a spark translator from www.fuelsystemparts.com it is ment for buick grand national 3.8 v6 turbo motors and corvette camaro lsi engines...but the renix igmition control module uses the same 5 volt square wave pattern to control spark timing via the igntion module as for 91 up crysler ran 4.0 you may be able to use the spark box from the crank sensors on those models for the corvettes.i dont know if it work as the same for the 4.0 i could check if you like.just let me know what what year u have an i can check for you on how both of those systems are compatable or not.i can add enough spark timing to realy cause some severe pinging.it does add a lot of power but you will need to have some realy good octane to run that high i am experimenting with octane addatives to stop the pinging so i can utilize the benifits of high timing hence the reason for my original post on xylene.on the dyno at work-lucky to have one at my chevy dealer i work at in the service dept-we dynoed mine to as much as 15-18 more hp just from ignition advancement alone.if you need help with adjustments if u deside to get 1 i can help explane it.for me the power gain is very noticible especialy on the highway.right now mine(xj)has 2003 grand rokee motor in an 88 xj ran by the original renix pcm with 4.10 gears and 33-10.50 tires at @70-75 mph i am at 2500 rpm with an 01 nv3550 trans and when i need to pass some one i have no problem whatsoever to do so-i can bark my tires when i shift from 1st to 2nd gear like that.

 

[old_man]

I would be surprised if it works very well. The Renix system is continually adjusting the timing based on inputs from the ping sensor. Adding a fixed timing offset will in most cases simply be compensated for in the fuel/air/ping servo loop. The HO computer does not have this feedback, it works on a family of set curves and is not dynamically controlled by the ping. It may work on that system.

 

[markaboo929]

um sorry did i mention my knock sensor is not in use at this time-when i did have it in use when it retarded the timing the engine would buck severly so no sensor for me i know it sounds stupid but what the hell do i want the timing retarded -for power sake anyways-besides the pinging if you will.i like the power output i have and want to keep it that way-wouldn't you?

 

[CW]

the knock sensor retards the timing when it detects pinging, Why don't to pull your head off and polish the combustion chambers up that helps a lot with detonation.

 

[markaboo929]

The Motor Is An 03 Grand Cherokee 4.0 With 10,000 Miles On It And I Have Alrerady Used Gm Top Engine Cleaner To Clean The Chambers-timing Is My Main Cause Due To Advanced Ignition Timing Through An Ignition Box-rerad Posts

 

[old_man]

SPOBI.​

The newer engine does not have a ping sensor and is not a Renix system.

 

[CW]

The Motor Is An 03 Grand Cherokee 4.0 With 10,000 Miles On It And I Have Alrerady Used Gm Top Engine Cleaner To Clean The Chambers-timing Is My Main Cause Due To Advanced Ignition Timing Through An Ignition Box-rerad Posts

I don't know if you can even fool the obdII to let you tinker with the timing and you don't have knock sensor. And I was talking about polishing the head not cleaning it. reread post.

 

[xray]

Save your self some time and money BUY GOOD GAS in the first place. And take care of your junk and it will take good care of you. Cheap fuel is just that and nothing else. Why drink water when you can have JD. If you feel the need to spend your money go buy some racing fuel or av fuel. That would do it, or octain booster, or nos, just kidding or maybe not.

 

[JJacobs]

If it's quick to adjust the timing back to stock, why not just run it that way and save your cash? All this money in fuel additives for 18 hp.

 

[markaboo929]

well power does cost money.i am going to go with a colder spark plug heat range and see if that helps.i gotta tell ya though there is a strong difference in acceleration when the ignition timing is advanced as much i can go with.have you ever had a vehicle that u messed with the timing before?or the air fuel ratio?you can realy get some good results from that alone.i am in the auto industry as a tech and love to see what i can do to stock computer controls to get "hidden" fuel and timing mapping in the programs it's in there you just have to extract it.this is the street and performance forum,is'nt it?as for octane boosters go-yes i can get 103 unleaded vp racing fuel from @ 5 miles from my home-but,at $8 a gallon = $144 a tank full as to 2 gallons of xylene in the tank for @ $16 + 16 gallons of 93 chevron @ $48 = $64, much cheaper to go with.i just wanted to see if anybody else has tweeked there motors and what they have done to satisfy "the need" as well.

 

[CW]

Can you clarify what year youre jeep is for us, because I have an 89 with a stroker and I have the timing bumped up with a high altitude cps, but would like adjustability. Really the big concern with that much additive is that it can eat fuel lines, o-rings and injectors. Keep a very close eye on things and maybe add an in-line fuel filter in case anything comes lose. keeping the engine cool with a lower t-stat and a fipk will help.

 

[5-90]

Given the low base compression (both static and dynamic) of the 4.0 engine, why are you worried about octane boosts? Typically, you need to boost octane if you're getting knock from detonation/preignition (which can be caused by hot spots combined with a fuel that is too volatile for the mix,) and reduction of fuel volatility (the octane increase) will help to prevent that.

If you're getting a preignition/detonation problem with a 4.0, and you're not running forced induction and haven't gotten silly with moving the IVC event on your cam, you've got deeper issues and should check out the chambers anyhow (borrow a fibrescope and pull the plugs - look around through the plug holes.) If you have a lot of carbon in there, you can start trying to remove it using the "water trick" I've described here several times over.

If that doesn't work, you'll end up pulling the head and taking a brass wheel brush to it to clear the carbon out, and I'd take a Cratex kit to it while I had it off to present a smooth surface inside the combustion bowl, and make sure to break any sharp edges I found while I was in there. This will reduce/eliminate any hot spots that are there under operation, and will help with the preignition/detonation.

I've spent a lot of time playing with ignition timing, fuel mixes, cam/valve timing, and I've even gotten into exotic fuels, so I've got a little experience at this. I've been in school working on refresher knowledge/new knowledge, and my current degree track will make me an automotive mechanical engineer by the time I'm done.

I'll agree that power can be found in odd places, but I'll also say that fuel/ignition tuning won't free up everything. The engine has to be taken as an entire system - I've usually started by selecting a camshaft and a fuel, and working forward from there. While my exotic fuel notebooks aren't in the same state as me anymore, there are a few things I might still recall on alky engines, and I've been doing a lot of fuel research lately for an update to my book...

5-90

 

[MudDawg]

Changing to a colder plug will not help if the problem is occuring under high load/low rpm WOT conditions. The stock cam L/C numbers yield a high effective C/R under such conditions. Add in low runner and intake port velocity that has some effect in fuel/air mixture uniformity in the combustion chamber. Toss in a few sharp edges and or a slightly lean condition and you get detonation. The bathtub combustion chamber and poor quench in a stock motor doesn't help either.

I ran into the same kind problem with my engine. Different cause...the combustion chambers/pistons/valves were carefully prepared...my problem was excessive enthusiasm for CR. Thankfully the heep ain't my DD.