Need some legal advice...

[Josh 89XJ]

I signed a lease with my landlord specifying that a $100 security deposit be paid prior to move-in, as well as first and last month's rent. In addition, a 5 day grace period is given for the payment of rent due on the 1st of the month. I'm set to move in tomorrow, but the landlord is now insisting that I sign a new lease after I have moved in. This new lease would demand an additional $400 for a security deposit, and eliminate the 5 day grace period. What are my rights in this situation? I have a feeling that if I simply insisted that my signed copy of the original lease is binding, the landlord would make things very difficult for me. I have absolutely no reason to sign a new lease, especially one that does nothing but take away my rights and demand more money. Does anybody have any suggestions on how I should proceed. My general idea is to tell them to stick it, but that will probably go over like a fart in church. My attorney is out of town for a while, but YES, I do plan on contacting him at the end of the week, and NO, I'm not signing anything.

 

[RichP]

Sounds like he wants you to back out, maybe he has a relative or someone who is willing to pay more who wants the place. How long was it on the market before you found it. The other side is that he knows you have already prepared to move out of your current place and need a place to move into so he's attempting to extort extra money out of you, or trying to. Me, I'd tell him to wizz up a rope and either walk or move in unless you don't have the keys yet. You do have a copy of the lease you signed, if not you don't have a leg to stand on. If you know the prior tenannt see if he tried the same with them.

 

[crazy4mopar]

I have been in property managment for 12 years. I would simply tell him "No thanks, I like the lease I already signed" If it's a short term lease (6 months) you may want to start hunting for a new pad. He may want you to sign the new lease when it's up anyways. In California you can't jack up a security deposit on the basis of a new lease in an occupied home, but he can take the grace period out on the new lease. If you like the the place bargin with him at the end of the lease he may go for it.

 

[Josh 89XJ]

Rich, good points. The problem is that I did indeed sign a lease and I have a copy of it to prove that. If I attempt to walk, then the landlord can reverse their demand and hold me accountable for the duration of the lease. My roommates are pushovers, and only one of them (its a big house, 4 of us signed to live there) is even questioning the landlord.

Thanks for the input crazy4mopar, good to have the opinion of someone in the biz.

I already received the keys, and the landlord cashed my check for the deposit, as well as first and last month's rent. My lease began on June 1st, so we are already operating under the existing lease in terms of finance and occupation. I wouldn't have minded a larger deposit (the $100 deposit seemed REALLY low) if it had been specified up front. The problem that I have is with the grace period, in addition to the whole principal of the thing. My roommates and I are paid on the 31st, and the rent is due on the first, but it needs to be mailed to the landlord since they live a few hours away. I would say that a 5 day grace is reasonable.

I'll just talk to the landlord tomorrow and tell them I'm not signing. They obviously don't seem to know what they are doing, so worst case scenario is that my attorney files suit for any damages if they decide to get beligerent. No cost to me since he owes me some favors anyway

Thanks again for the input and letting me vent a little. I'll post an update tomorrow.

 

[Beezil]

I agree with Rich.

I'm a Landlode' mysewlf...In Chicago, Lanlodes are required to give all prospective tennants the Chicago Landlord-tennant agreement, which spells out ALL rules, regulations, and laws, and includes everything including payment processes. I would check to see if your city, county or state has such documents and urge you to read it cover to cover and KNOW what your rights are and what to expect. I urge the same for anyone reading this, that is renting.

If you want try a search for ours, the chicago tennant-landlord agreement to use as an EXAMPLE of what you might expect in your area....the document is pretty much PRO tennant, as it SHOULD be.

At any rate, regardless of wether or not this person requires you to sign lease #2, I would not rent this apartment. This person appears shifty, and is not someone I would trust with a security deposit....

and if it makes you feel any better.........MY tennats secuirty deposit is $1300.00bucks, and I'm the lowest on the block that I know of.

 

[Beezil]

I'm sorry, I hit "reply" after I read your opening post......

Not only do you have the first lease as "proof", but once the landlord cashed the check for the secuirty deposit, that is legally agreeing to the terms set forth in lease #1 so that issue is case-closed. I still don't really understand how the "grace period" works.

instruct your roommates not to sign any additional documents. If for some reason the landlord insists on a new lease be signed, make him sign on lease number one "This lease agreement is null and void" or some crap like that, showing that the landlord is breeching the contract, and do not sign a new lease.

see if your city/county/state has an gov agency that deals with these matters. you should be able to get free consultation and remedies.

 

[GreenGhost]

Here's a link to the Tenant's Union. Looks like they've got some info that might help you. They also do consultations if you can get over to the Emerald City.

http://www.tenantsunion.org/

Your State/County should also have info on the web. Check that out.
Seems to me he's accepted the terms of the original lease by allowing you to sign in the first place, then by cashing your check. Don't cave, and don't let your roomates cave (hide all the pens in the house if you have to). This guy wants a couple extra C notes, which he'll no doubt try to keep at the end of your stay anyway. Bad landlords always try to take advantage of a lack of information on your part.
Hey, are you in school there? WSU should have a housing office. Go talk to those folks. They'll give you the skinny on what's allowable and what's not. The one at UCSB would even contact your landlord and "remind" them of the law.
Good luck, and don't back down or he'll be walkin' all over you the whole time you're there.

 

[Eagle]

Couple of points

1. You have a contract. The landlord cashed your check, which any court will accept as prima facie evidence that the landlord has begun to operate under that agreement, as have you.

2. As to the grace period and the mail, unless the lease specifies that the landlord must receive the money by xxx date, Federal law (think income tax) and many states' laws accept putting the check in the mail as payment. (Your VISA card agreement specifically states that they count from when they see the money.) Check your laws.

3. The landlord is waaaaaay off base here and is attempting a blatant extortion. Tell your roommates to suck it up and stand up for their rights.

 

[RichP]

Ahhhh, roommates, house, college students. Now I understand. Me, I'd have added a 'party' clause, you'd have to invite me to every party

 

[PaulJ]

Check the wa.gov website and you'll probably find what you need. I'm pretty sure the state attorney general's office deals with these issure. This is a pretty liberal state; therefore, the legislators have been pretty hard on the land owners and pretty easy on the tenants.

 

[Josh 89XJ]

Case closed.

I chatted with them on Saturday and told them that I had absolutely no intentions of signing any "new lease" and that they had absolutely no rights to justify action. They gave me their side of the story for wanting to hike the security deposit too. Note: I toured the house while the residents were still in it, so I hadn't seen it vacated yet. The folks who lived there before me did a number on some of the walls and such. For example, they put a rather large hole in one of the upstairs hallways, and then covered it up by buying some additional matching wallpaper and simply gluing it over the hole. The hardwood floors were pretty messed up when they moved the dining room table out too. The damage was obviously a lot more than the measly deposit. The occupant did a nice job of covering it up just enough to not be noticed until it was inspected closely though. Their lease expired on May 31st, and mine began the 1st of June, but I was out of the state on business until a couple of days ago. With our approval, the landlord wanted to (at their expense) have a cleaning crew come in and spruce the place up before I moved in. Thus, they found the damage about a week ago. They are going to be having the floors refinished, the wall repaired, rooms painted, etc. Since the damage was just discovered, the work couldn't be completed before I moved in. They wanted to play the "cover your ass" game and get a larger deposit since they got burned.

Because the repairs to the house will be an inconvenience to me, here is the deal that I orchestrated and they agreed to. The last months rent (already paid) will be placed in escrow and will serve the purpose of insurence as an additional security deposit. One month prior to my lease expiration, I will grant an inspection of the occupied house for the purposes of uncovering any damage not considered normal wear and tear. Assuming that there are no major damages, the money will be removed from escrow and used as payment of the final month's rent. In the event of damages, neither myself nor my roommates will be liable for more than the amount in escrow. In addition, all repairs for damages caused by the previous occupants must be done with a minimum one week's prior notice, and rent will be at a reduced rate until the repairs are completed to my satisfaction.

Yes, I'm still in college, but NO, I'm not a brain dead moron without any contract or negotiation experience. I've managed my fair share of departments and businesses, so its always fun to catch people off guard when they assume that you are a pushover

Beezil: Every other place that I have rented required a large deposit like you mentioned. These folks are an older couple, and like I said, they don't seem to really know what they are doing.

Thanks for all of the great links and info folks!

 

[RichP]

We rented a place in Hawaii like that, it was trashed when we got it from previous tennants. We moved in, totally refinished our 3br downstairs unit and the back yard using excess stuff from the navy housing unit. Rebuilt the barbacue pit in the backyard, fixed the roof over the 4 car carport but never said anything. Owners came by for an inspection, took one look at the place and wanted to know if we wanted a reduced rate 5 year lease on it If I hadn't been sent home on emergency leave and permanent change of station to the atlantic fleet I'd probably still be there. Our landlord were nice people and it's a shame that the previous tennants screwed your landlords, it ruins it for others big time. I was always taught to take care of others stuff the same way I would if it were mine.

 

[Hunter-LynchburgVa]

it sounds like a sham to me. because the last tennants screwed up after you signed your initial lease the securtiy deposit goes up 300 bucks and you lose your grace period, that doesnt sound right. just tell them you wont screw the place up and will stay under initial terms. escrow acounts and all that stuff are way more complicated than the whole situation demands. its the landlords fault for letting you move out as soon as the old tennants moved in. they knew the dates, but they wanted to keep the place occupied. most states require the landlord to re paint and clean before the new tennants occupy the residence. also just for the hell of it, i would check out the zoning regulations of the place you live. around here there is only about a 2 block radius that allows more than 3 non-related individuals to live in the same household, it dates back to the days of brothels (whore houses) and its residents (prostitutes).

Hunter
i had a shitty land lord for a while, then we went to court after i moved out(i won). now im in a new place, and the old shitty landlord just bought my building a month ago.

 

[Beezil]

remind them that you may be entitled to your security deposit back PLUS INTEREST. whatever that amount is in escrow is wha you deserve as interest. Now, the only thing I know about this sort of thing is what I know from the chicago tennant landlord agreement......Check to see if such a situation exists in your area.....

they still seem shifty. becareful!

I wanna bug you one more time though, seriously, ry to find any documents you can concerning your rights as a tennant in your locale! Landlords take advantage of the ill-informed. knowledge is your best tool.

 

[dmillion]

He signed a contract. It's binding. That's it. He cannot force you to sign a new contract. Period.

Of course, there are a lot of things that are technically legal that a landlord can do to make a tennant's life miserable. Whatever the term of the lease, I would plan on moving again as soon as it's up. You really don't want to live under a landlord who is such a schmuck!

Oh yeah, and take lots of pictures of the place immediately after moving in, and immediately before moving out. One of the oldest scams in the world is the landlord who claims "damage" and tries to keep your security deposit as a result.

 

[Beezil]

good idea dmillion.

I'd like to add.......

it might seem ridiculous, but I suggest renters insurance.....its usually very cheap for the coverage....

I suggested renters insurance for my last set of tennants, one of the girls actually got it.......

dmillions right, the guy is a schmuck.

 

[Ed A. Stevens]

If you feel the new agreement is fair, then proceed (the owners sound like fair people, just a little tender from the last renters).

Be aware a deposit may be non refundable (read state and local laws if possible). Last months rent is handled differently from a deposit. Remember in the new agreement you are paying rent for a unit under repair construction, and may be due compensation.

Take photos of everything, every room, and every appliance, and send the owners copies with a nice report about the condition of the unit and finished repair work. Add a question that if they have any disagreement with your report of the repairs they have 30 days to respond, or your record is agreed to be acceptable. This protects your (now larger) security deposit. Wear and tear and damage are subjective (probably not a problem, but better to be safe).

I also recommend renters insurance, if you can afford the coverage. If any other hidden damage is found, or lasting effects of poor repairs are found, it may protect you with money for a place to stay during future repairs. Insurance also protects your contents in the structure from theft and damage caused by building problems (flood, fire, leaking roof, etc.) and contents in your vehicle and/or camp not covered by auto insurance (very handy if you camp a lot).