Muslim Mosque at Ground Zero, NYC......what's the real deal?

Well that's great and all XJeeper... now lets get back to the Mosque.

Gingrich statement:
The problem being that it is related to the mosque in that it shows historical precedence, attitude, etc regarding Muslims in the world today, and how that supports our opposition to the mosque.

Also, Gingrich is a little off in his statement about not allowing churches in Saudi Arabia. The difference being that Saudi Arabia is a theocracy. It's a country run by Islam. In America, we can debate our founders' religion, but our country is not run by any particular religion. So, saying no churches in Saudi Arabia makes no difference. There's Christian's in America, Europe, Africa, Australia, pretty much every nation and continent on Earth. Christianity is a western religion, not associated with any particular governments. Islam is a religion that governs many nations (57 IIRC from XJEEPER's post).
 
Christianity is a western religion, not associated with any particular governments.

Well, it got started in the middle east and spread around the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity

Then, 632 years late, along comes Islam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam

And both Christians and Muslims had a "convert or kill" philosophy. Theirs worked better and Islam supplanted Christianity in many regions around the world.

Islam is a religion that governs many nations (57 IIRC from XJEEPER's post).

Influences many governments, but not really governs that many if your talking about pure Caliphates or the more secular Islamic Republics--theocracies.
 
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Christianity is a western religion, not associated with any particular governments.

Well, it got started in the middle east and spread around the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity

Then, 632 years late, along comes Islam: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam

And both Christians and Muslims had a "convert or kill" philosophy. Theirs worked better and Islam supplanted Christianity in many regions around the world.

Islam is a religion that governs many nations (57 IIRC from XJEEPER's post).

Influences many governments, but not really governs that many if your talking about pure Caliphates or the more secular Islamic Republics--theocracies.
Yeah, I know it started in Israel, spread to Greece and Rome and then throughout the world, but today it is regarded as a western religion.

Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc may not be directly ruled over by an Imam, but Islam is still the governing power in countries like these. Ahmadinejad may be president, but as a Muslim he is completely governed in his actions by Islam.
 
Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, etc may not be directly ruled over by an Imam, but Islam is still the governing power in countries like these. Ahmadinejad may be president, but as a Muslim he is completely governed in his actions by Islam.

Well... no.

Saudi Arabia is governed by a King. He has overrode the Clerics in his country. Recently, the King had the Cleric board take away the ability of an outspoken Cleric from issuing Fatahs.

Iran is run entirely by a Group of Clerics and their right hand is the Revolutionary Guard. Ahmad... is just a figurehead, he has no power of his own. In the past, when he has over-reached his authorty, they have repremanded him.

Pakistan is ruled by a "Democratic Government", but right behind them is the Military. The Military calls the shots. If the Government gets too religious, they overthrow it and start again.
 
And neither the government nor the military of pakistan really runs some parts of the country. It kinda scares me that they and India have nukes, to be honest.
 
it's elbonia, but they mostly have rocks instead of mud.
 
Sharia Law bugs me out. I seriously need to put the Qur'an on my short read list so I can verify some of the facts in our discussions. I will say this, I have a serious problem with a religion that keeps me from drinkin and thinkin.

Some aspects of Sharia have come up in my business classes lately.... considering the large Muslim population its something good to be aware of. Not because it should be law, but because in business transactions with Muslims its good to understand what they will/will not do.

For example Sharia prohibits the collection of interest. Muslims use a middle man who buys property for them and then sells it to them at a higher price, where the whole value includes the interest. Kind of a sneaky way to break your own religion's law.
 
Shariah: an all-encompassing and in-transmutable system of Islamic jurisprudence, found in the Koran and the Sunnah, that covers all aspect of life, including daily routines, hygiene, familial roles and responsibilities, social order and conduct, directives on relationships with Muslims and non-Muslims, religious obligations, financial dealings and many other facets of living.

Ird: the sexual purity of a woman that confers honor to her husband, family and community. Ird is based on the traditional standards of behavior set forth in the shariah code and includes subservience to male relatives, modest dress which could include veiling and the covering of the body, and restricted movement outside of the home. The loss of a woman’s ird confers shame upon her family and can result in ostracism by the community, economic damage, political consequences and the loss of self esteem.

Zina: the Koranic word for sexual relations outside of marriage. Under shariah law, Zina is punished by lashings, imprisonment or stoning to death.

FGM: female genital mutilation refers to the partial or complete removal of the female genitalia for religious and cultural reasons. It is practiced to preserve a female’s chastity and dampen her sexual desire. FGM is permitted in the Koran but required by the Shafi’i, one of the four schools of shariah law within Sunni Islam.

Honor Killing: a murder, usually of a female, committed to restore the social and political standing of a family or community when it is believed that the victim has violated traditional behavioral expectations. Such violations can include improper covering of the body, appearing in public without a male relative chaperone, talking to an unrelated male, or exhibiting independence in thought and action. An honor killing can also be based on hearsay or gossip that is perceived as damaging to a woman’s relatives.

Forced Marriage: a marriage that is conducted without the consent of one or both parties in which duress is a factor. Such duress can include violence or physical intimidation, psychological abuse, blackmailing, kidnapping, or threats of imprisonment or institutional confinement.

GZ Mosque Imam Rauf calls America a "Sharia compliant state"........I'm no Constitutional scholar, but I fail to see the parallels. Maybe the ACLU has a position here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT8s1a1E4nk&feature=player_embedded#!
 
Here's the nutshell version.......

In 1998, CAIR’s founder Omar Ahmad told the San Ramon Valley Herald that Islam is not in America to stand idly by: “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.”

Ironically in the same article, Ahmad spoke out against those who would try to impose their values onto Islam.


http://dailycaller.com/2010/09/22/c...through-intimidation-and-lawfare-critics-say/
 
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The following is not necessarily the opinion of this website or poster:

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Sheppard Smith- Fox News...

"If you check President Obama's last trip over-seas, his wife left
just after their visit to France . She has yet to accompany him to
any Arab country. Think about it. Why is Michelle returning
to the states when 'official' trips to foreign countries generally
include the First Lady."

Here's one thought on the matter:

While in a Blockbuster renting videos I came across a video called
"Obama". There were two men standing next to me and we
talked about President Obama. These guys were Arabs, so I asked
them why they thought Michele Obama headed home following the
President's recent visit to France instead of traveling on to Saudi
Arabia and Turkey with her husband. They told me she could not go
to Saudi Arabia , Turkey or Iraq . I said "Why not,(?) Laura
Bush went to Saudi Arabia , Turkey and Dubai ." They
said that Obama is a Muslim and therefore he is not allowed to
bring his wife into countries that adhere to Sharia Law.


Two points of interest here:

1) I thought it interesting that two American Arabs at Blockbuster
believe that our President is a Muslim,

2) who follows a strict Islamic creed.

They also said that's the reason he bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia.
It was a signal to the Muslim world, acknowledging his religion.


For further consideration, here is a response from Dr. Jim Murk, a
Middle Eastern Scholar and expert on Islam. This is his
explanation of what the Arab American's were saying:

An orthodox Muslim man would never take his wife on a politically
oriented trip to any nation which practices Sharia law, particularly
Saudi Arabia where the Wahhabi sect is dominant.
This is true and
it is why Obama left Michelle in Europe . She will stay home when
he visits Arab countries. He knows Muslim protocol; this
includes, bowing to the Saudi King. Obama is regarded as a Muslim
in the Arab world, because he was born to a Muslim father; he
acknowledged his Muslim faith with George Stephanopoulus. Note
that he downplays his involvement with Christianity, by not publicly
joining a Christian church in D.C. And occasionally attending the
chapel for services at Camp David . He also played down the fact
that America is a Christian country and said, unbelievably, that it was
one of the largest Muslim nations in the world, which is nonsense.

ACTIONS speak louder than words. Another interesting item
regarding Sharia Law:
Why has Barack Hussein Obama insisted that
the U.S. Attorney General hold the trials of the 911 Muslim Terrorists
in Civilian Courts as Common Criminals instead of as Terrorists who
attacked the United States of America ? If the Muslim Terrorists
are tried in Military Tribunals, convicted and sentenced to death, by
LAW, Barack Hussein Obama, as President of the United States , would be
required to sign their Death Warrants. He would not be required
to sign the death warrants if they are sentenced to death by a Civilian
Court. Recently, Muslim Jihadist, Army Major Hassan slaughtered
non-Muslim, soldiers at Ft. Hood , Texas rather than go to Afghanistan
and be a part of anything that could lead to the deaths of fellow
Muslims. He stated that Muslims 'could not and should not kill
fellow Muslims.' Is the motive for Barack Hussein Obama's
insistence on civilian trials, to make sure he doesn't have to sign the
death warrants for the Muslim Terrorists? Why would he, as
President of the United States , not sign the death warrants for Muslim
Terrorists who attacked the United States and murdered over 3,000 U. S.
Citizens on 9/11? Could it be that he is FORBIDDEN by his
RELIGION to authorize the execution of Muslims?


Think about that!

Perhaps we should open our eyes, ears and mind to who
the President is, how he behaves, and what he is doing.
 
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