Muslim Mosque at Ground Zero, NYC......what's the real deal?

ECKSJAY said:
x2 on ALL of this...and to the bold part I say "patriot by convenience". This mentality that Ron is talking about is what has given "Tea Party" members the moniker "Teabaggers". We look at those folks as nuts because they spout about freedom, but have no problems persecuting those who are non-white/non-Christian. Founding Fathers would collectively facepalm while saying "Thou art doing it wrong."
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werd x11tybillion
 
let em build it...well....try...gurauntee that thing will be burnt to the ground repeatedly, and highly doubt any LOE's in NYC will be able to find any evidence to find the culprit behind it....

cuz i know if i was a LOE in america, and someone burnt the damn thing down over and over, there would be lot of overlooked and lost evidence on my part....
 
in4aride said:
let em build it...well....try...gurauntee that thing will be burnt to the ground repeatedly
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My God, have you considered the repercussions of your statement?

That's just the pretense jihadists want to escalate terror and to grow their ranks. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they destroyed the mosque themselves (killing innocent Muslims in the process) just so they can get more funding/ recruits from within their respective circles.

This matter has to be settled delicately. That means NO EXPLOSIONS, and no infringement of the constitution. In other words, this is going to take something completely radical to most folks -- open discussion that appeals to both side's sensibilities.
 
nah, throw rocks at my house, im not gonna sit and watch then invite you inside for a drink to discuss how to make you happy, imma storm out my front door with my good ol shotgun and show ya what i think of your damn rocks....
 
ya, but if the US was less worried about the feelings of others and just took care of itself, people would be less likely to come over here and do some stupid shit. im all about people having their freedoms....but its OUR freedoms they are given in OUR country..
and sorry but you dont come into my house, as my guest, enjoy what i have to offer, kill my fmaily/friends, and expect me to respond and act on things from that point on with your 'feelings' and 'freedoms' in mind. they are my freedoms i gave you and you can take your hurt feelings and go hide where you came from before i really loose my mind....
 
I believe building a mosque near ground zero is a bad idea. To me it is not of the religious issues, but rather an issue of respect to both all the dead and to the families of the departed. Bone fragments are still being found at the site, so to say it has been 9 years, lets get on with life, well, you need to walk in those shoes before making comments.

I have to ask, why does Mr. Rauf have to build on this specific site? I believe because he has little or no respect for tolerance and only wants to promote his agenda. A few examples that are exactly the same;
Did Japan build a shrine at Pearl Harbor?
Did America build a church in Hiroshima?
Did the Germans build a church at Normandy?
The answer to all those questions is no. All three of the above cultures have an overall respect, something that Mr. Rauf and many (but not all) Muslims seem to not have. Religious tolerance is not a one way street. All have to be tolerant. I know tolerance will never happen, at least that is the case for the last few thousand years, so why will it change now?

A whole lot of people seem to forget basic history from school, that is history forgotten is history repeated.

Rauf and all his supporters will be laughing every day at the stupid Americans who allowed the mosque where such trajedy took place. No it is not a New York issue, it is a US issue.
 
in4aride said:
and sorry but you dont come into my house, as my guest, enjoy what i have to offer, kill my fmaily/friends, and expect me to respond and act on things from that point on with your 'feelings' and 'freedoms' in mind. they are my freedoms i gave you and you can take your hurt feelings and go hide where you came from before i really loose my mind....
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They are not "your" freedoms to give or take. These people are not the criminals that are everyone's enemy.
Since you imply that you will 'loose your mind' if these people build their Mosque, one can come to the conclusion that you have just made a declaration of intent.

Watch what you post on the internet, it doesn't go away.
 
TJ Rat said:
Did Japan build a shrine at Pearl Harbor?
Did America build a church in Hiroshima?
Did the Germans build a church at Normandy?
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Don't confuse Nations with Religions.
Japan has many religions, as does America and Germany.
No Nation pulled off 9/11. The perps are criminals in their own countries, and kill people with their own religious beliefs just as quickly as people of other faiths.
 
Zuki-Ron said:
Don't confuse Nations with Religions.
Japan has many religions, as does America and Germany.
No Nation pulled off 9/11. The perps are criminals in their own countries, and kill people with their own religious beliefs just as quickly as people of other faiths.
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I absolutely am not confusing religions with countries.

Is this better?
Did the Buddhists build a shrine at Pearl Harbor?

Progressives (liberals) love to cloud and confuse the issue. This has nothing to do with different countries, it has everything to do with mind-set.

And you say the perps are criminals in their own countries - I call that total BS. Want proof? Ever hear of Lockerbie(sp) Scotland? What anniversary happened this week. It was the first anniversary of the killers release from prison. Did you forget he went from Scotland to Libya...and received a heros welcome in Libya. How is that considering him a criminal in his home land? The common connection between the Pan Am bombing and the WTC disaster...both were carried out by Muslim men intent on ridding the world of infadels.
 
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in4aride said:
nah, throw rocks at my house, im not gonna sit and watch then invite you inside for a drink to discuss how to make you happy, imma storm out my front door with my good ol shotgun and show ya what i think of your damn rocks....
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to the ones who threw the rocks, I fully agree with you.

but would you then look at their drivers license, drive to their neighborhood and start executing everyone who lives on their street, just because since they're from the same area/walk of life, they must be planning on throwing rocks at your house too?
 
IslanderOffRoad said:
to the ones who threw the rocks, I fully agree with you.

but would you then look at their drivers license, drive to their neighborhood and start executing everyone who lives on their street, just because since they're from the same area/walk of life, they must be planning on throwing rocks at your house too?
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nope, im not lookin for trouble, im preventing it, which is why you wont be moving into my neighborhood.....

go live somewhere else...



(and yes i will continue to say that, why, cuz they would do the same thing if i lived there...
"but thats what makes america america, its the american dream."

ya well we have to many americans not able to live the american dream cuz were too damned busy worrying about the feelings of other damn countries...)
 
TJ Rat said:
I absolutely am not confusing religions with countries.

Is this better?
Did the Buddhists build a shrine at Pearl Harbor?

Progressives (liberals) love to cloud and confuse the issue. This has nothing to do with different countries, it has everything to do with mind-set.
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Well, I am neither a Progressive, nor a Libberal. And I an not trying to confuse the issue, but to clarify your thought.

You have already stated your logic in your 1st post. Your logic is flawed. You have equated a Nation and people who live in or decend from that Country to a specific religion,and have linked them all to a war, conflct, or criminal act.

Many Budists are not Japanese. Many Christains (all faiths) are not not German, or American for that mater. And many Muslims are not Arabs. All Arabs are not Terrorists. Muslims come in all colors, from a number of regions thoughout the world, just as there are Christians, Budists all over the world

You can not blame a religion for criminals who happen to give lip service to it's beliefs.
 
If 61% of New Yorkers think it is a bad idea than those 61% need to change the zoning laws to ban the building of the mosque.
 
Zuki-Ron said:
Well, I am neither a Progressive, nor a Libberal. And I an not trying to confuse the issue, but to clarify your thought.

You have already stated your logic in your 1st post. Your logic is flawed. You have equated a Nation and people who live in or decend from that Country to a specific religion,and have linked them all to a war, conflct, or criminal act.

Many Budists are not Japanese. Many Christains (all faiths) are not not German, or American for that mater. And many Muslims are not Arabs. All Arabs are not Terrorists. Muslims come in all colors, from a number of regions thoughout the world, just as there are Christians, Budists all over the world

You can not blame a religion for criminals who happen to give lip service to it's beliefs.
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Zuki-Ron; all I can say is you need to brush up on your history a little bit.

Look up the religion of the Japanese during WWII, from the emporer on down. How many were not Buddhist? Look up how many of the terrorists are not Muslim.

Your statements are a prime example of, "history forgotten is history repeated".
 
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TJ Rat said:
Zuki-Ron; all I can say is you need to brush up on your history a little bit.

Look up the religion of the Japanese during WWII, from the emporer on down. How many were not Buddhist? Look up how many of the terrorists are not Muslim. Your mindset is very very dangerous to the free world.

Your statements are a prime example of, "history forgotten is history repeated".
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I don't need to change my mindset or research history to recognize bad logic when I see it.

None, what was practiced in Japan in WWII was not Buddhism, but Shinto, and a State instituted version at that.

How may of the Terrorists were not Muslim? Probably zero. That does not mean that all Muslim's are Terrorists.

What will building a Mosque do for people of the Muslim faith in NY? Not all Muslims are of Arabic decent, some are Black, some White, some are Naturalized Americans, and some were born here. What about their right to worship where they want? It is their Constitutional Right to do so. As a matter of a fact, there is nothing to stop a person practicing the Muslim faith from whipping out their prayer rug right ON "Ground Zero", pointing it to Mecca, and going about practicing their religion. Infact, if any of those construction workers is Muslim, that probably happens.

Boatwrench is spot on. If New Yokers don't like it, they should change the zoning ordinaces or set up a "monument" district. If "you" don't like it, move to NY and work to change the zoning ordinances.
 
TJ Rat said:
Look up the religion of the Japanese during WWII, from the emporer on down. How many were not Buddhist?
.
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Well not the Emporer...he was the leader of the Shinto Religion that is not true Buddaism.

Lebanon and a good many Palestinians are either Catholic or Orthodox.
 
Ron;
I agree with you 1000% that not all Muslims are terrorists. But the terrorists causing the problems are all Muslims.

Sorry, but the mosque is a total disgrace to all of the USA, not just New Yorkers. In this instance I will support the 61% majority of New Yorkers. I have also told Bloomberg how I feel. As far as politics for the last year, politicians do not do what the people want anyway.

As far as moving to New York, it is not for me - especially the winters.

You and Boatwrench are correct. The religion is Shinto. Where is the separation between country and religion? Just curious, I do not see it.
 
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