Manual Transmission oils

[Anthropy]

There has been some discussion that ATF is just fine in the manual transmissions. I have the AX-15 ('96 XJ) and my users manual says to use 75w-90 (I use the synthetic version).

Has anyone used the ATF in the AX-15 transmissions? I know for winter time use, the thought is easier shifting. I know that in January here the temps can get to minus 10 to minus 20 deg F and my trany shifts slow until the fluid gets moving.


Tom atriot:

 

[gearwhine]

the only stuff that works in there, that has proof that it's fine for it is the manual transmisison fluid from the jeep dealer at 15 bucks a quart. I ran typical 80w-90 gear oil in mine for a year before I knew about the oil ordeal, and now my shifts aren't as smooth as they used to be. I'm swapping in the "good" fluid today hoping it doens't get any worse.

 

[Anthropy]

So what is the stuff from the dealer. Can you give me the number that the dealer uses?

Also, there has to be a ISO, or SAE number related to the oil.



Tom atriot:

 

[Eagle]

Antropy --

Do a search on this forum. Several weeks back we had a long discussion about this. The problem is that gear lubes rated GL-5 have extreme pressure additives with a lot of sulpher in them, and the sulpher attacks the yellow metal in the synchronizers. At one time it was reported that the FSM and owners manuals contained a misprint in calling for GL-5 rated gear lube. One of our members, MJR, is a Jeep tech in California. He researched it and I believe what he learned was that Jeep changed the recommendation in one of the years using the AX-15 tranny. I don't remember, though, if GL-5 was the correct juice before the change, or after.

Doesn't affect you, but Jeep also has a new, non-rated tranny juice for the NVG3550 used in the 2000 and 2001 XJs. And I still don't know what I'm supposed to use in my Peugeot 5-speed.

One work-around that may be safe is to use Redline synthetic. According to Redline's web site, their gear lube is not injurious to yellow metals.

 

[CharlesS]

GL5/GL3

Eagle,

Not sure what year the change in recommendations was made, but while MJR was visiting with me several months ago I believe that he said, before a certain year (mid 90s) the recommendation was GL-5 and after a certain year it was GL-3.
The transmission in my 98 XJ AX-15 has not used anything other than Redline synthetic gear lube since shortly after purchasing the Jeep in Oct 97 and my synchros are rather notchy going from 2nd to 3rd. Until about 8 months ago I used GL-5 and I am now using Redline MTL GL-3 rated.
The transmission shifts slightly better, but I believe the damage has already been done.

 

[Anthropy]

I found the subject regarding the use of the gl-5 & gl-3. I have been using the gl-5 for the past year and perhaps that is why I have trouble shifting now.

It is really nice that they are so forward as to what the requirements are for the fluid. When I do a commissioning on a blower, it calls for an ISO-220 oil and any oil that meets that rating is OK to use by the Mfg. So why can't they do the same.

Tom

 

[Eagle]

The requirements for the fluid are not the problem. GL=5 is GL-5, and it is an extreme pressure gear lube. However, it is formulated first and foremost for use in drive axles, which don't have brass and bronze parts in them.

The problem is that the factory probably made a mistake in calling for GL-5 in the manual transmissions. However, since the Cherokee has been discontinued and the Grand Cherokee doesn't come with a 5-speed, and the 5-speed they now use in the Liberty and Wrangler takes a special lubricant that's not even GL-3 rated -- they ain't fessin' up to nuthin'

 

[RichP]

Also keep in mind if you shop around to save money the brand the advance carries is 'Coastal' they have a GL-3/4/5 rated gear lube. The differences between GL-3 and GL-5 are like comparing water and salt water, both are wet but only one if fit to drink. If it has a GL-5 rating it has Sulphur which is damaging to sintered metals. Now one person I know on the bluemountain group did some research and he's going to try MT-90 which is GL-4 rated, what I would like to know is does GL-4 have those sulphur compounds ??? I don't know.

 

[Wayne Sihler]

Look at this info I got from a Shell master book in my friends lube bay-
84-87 T4+T5---- GLS
84-96 All others-75w90 GL5
97 Cherokee-----75w90 GL3
98-03 All except NV3500-75w90 GL3
NV3500 -- GLS
There were a lot of spec # that each mfg.uses .But it all boiled down to these.

Wayne
PS,this was the list for YJ.TJ.XJ.WJ and ZJ

 

[Anthropy]

I re-checked my owners manual and it shows GL-5 as a listing and mine is a '96. So I suppose now I am hosed and my syncros will need replacing. Well, that explains a lot about my 'new hard to shift' troubles that I attributed to my clutch's slave cylinder.

I will have to look for the redline gl-3 lube. Does it just go by the name 'Redline'?

Speaking of being discontinued. I remember the press release that I heard on the news one morning '... is discontinuing their best selling line, the Cherokee' I still scratch my head over that statement.


Tom

 

[CharlesS]

Redline is the manufacturer of the gearlube. You can purchase it from Summit Racing online and have it mailed to you or you can shop and buy it locally. Usually about $7.95 a qt and you need a little over 3 qts.

 

[kevin s]

Pennzoil synchromesh is rated for yellow metals. $4.95 at Autozone. Same spec numbers as GM synchromesh. This is the stuff to use.

 

[RichP]

I also looked at Royal Purple and they acknowledge the GL-3 in 1997 XJ's and recommend some other motor oils ??? Can't figure that out.
The MT-90 from redline looks about the best bet if someone can answer the Gl-3 and GL-4 difference. While the comparision between GL-3 and GL-5 may be appropriate maybe the difference between GL-3 and GL-4 might only be the difference between say well water and city treated water.
I'm going to see if I can find a local redline dealer and pick up 4 quarts of the MT-90 and see what happens.

 

[kevin s]

Pennzoil synchromesh is the stuff to use. Same spec numbers as GM syncromesh. Safe for yellow metals. $4.95 at Autozone.

 

[Anthropy]

I think the MT-90 is the right choice for the viscosity range. The MTL seems a bit on the light side.

I used the valvoline synthetic gl-5 oil, but did not look to see if that was 'yellow' metal safe.

Royal Purple (found at Napa) is interesting as that has the same ratings for ISO-220 blower oil.

Tom

 

[Eagle]

Pennzoil synchromesh is rated for yellow metals. $4.95 at Autozone. Same spec numbers as GM synchromesh. This is the stuff to use.

NO! NO! NO!

This is NOT the stuff to use.

I thought that, too, when I saw it on the shelf and bought 5 bottles of it. Then I read the fine print, checked with the Jeep dealer, and was told that the Mopar spec it meets is only for the NVG 3500 and 4500 series transmissions.

I didn't believe it, so I called Pennzoil and spoke with one of their engineers. He told me the same thing. It's also listed on the Pennzoil web site. It is not to be used in the BA 10/5 or AX-series transmissions. This stuff has effectively no extreme pressure additives. If you read the back of the bottle, it has no GL rating -- not even GL-3.

I have a 2000 with the NVG3550 so I'll keep the stuff for use in that. The rest of you with the AX-15s will have to keep looking.

 

[kevin s]

Wow. Sorry for the misinformation. I picked it up from a previous thread a couple years ago and used it in my AX-5 in my departed YJ.

What did the Pennzoil guy say it WAS good for?

 

[Mike in NJ]

Happened to be at my neighborhood NAPA store today and saw that their "Premium Gear Oil 80W-85W-90" is rated Gl-5, GL-4, AND GL-3!

One wonders. If GL-5 rated fluid is too corrosive for GL-3 rated transmissions, and GL-3 rated oil does not contain the additives needed for GL-5 transmissions - how is this "miracle" multigrade oil capable of dealing with the needs of both??

BTW - $2.10 a quart.

My head hurts.

Mike in NJ atriot:

 

[Kejtar]

It is really nice that they are so forward as to what the requirements are for the fluid.

What does your manual say? Mine specifies the requirement as GL3....

In regards to the multigrade stuff... I don't believe it and my theory is that no matter how expensive the stuff is at the dealers, it's less then the rebuild for the tranny! Btw, when you go there, you have to ask for AX15 transmission fluid, otherwise they will most likely not know what you need...

Kejtar

 

[Rev Den]

Call me silly......I have been dumping whatever I pull off the shelf 75W-90W for over 13 years and 200K miles in my 90 5 speed, no problems.
GL-3,4,5 ?? Beat the heck outta me.

Rev