LS1 Cherokee

[KJurasek]

I have already posted this thread, but for some reason I cannot find it anywhere. Anyway, I am wrapping up my 4.9 stroker. It was a pain. So many expensive custom parts and pieces for only around 300 HP and 12 -15 mpg? WTF?? I wanted to keep the Cherokee all Chysler, but I cannot help but consider the superiority of the LS1/LS2. With a few mods to the head (ie porting) and a different cam, I can easily get 400 HP out of the LS1 (400 HP for the stock LS2, but twice the price of the LS1), better aftermarket support, and much better gas mileage given the weight of the vehicle (stock XJ is around 3,000 lbs which is close to the Corvette which gets over 20 mpg).

My point being, is I am considering a LS1 swap but where are the write-ups on it? I checked this site and there is not much. The best write-up is on the Novak Adapters site.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/xj_swap.htm

It really is something to think about.

Input on this is appreciated.

KJ

 

[soopergoober]

This would be the thread you referenced:

http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1053315

There aren't many - if any - "how to" write-ups or ls series swaps. Novak's website and installation literature that ships with their products is about as close as you may find for xj specific ls swap info. That's just the think and thin of it.

Also, kiss that idea of a 20mpg ls powered xj goodbye. The corvette manages 20mpg because of aerodynamics, not because it has an ls. Sorry, but pushing your xj along at 65mph probably takes about as much energy as pushing the corvette at 85+.

If you're really after fuel economy AND power forget about gasoline, diesel's where it's at. I'm no diesel expert but, I'd start by looking into either a modern vw/bmw/mercedes diesel swap or cummins 4bt (compound turbo maybe?).

But seriously, isn't a 300hp 15mpg jeep enough? If this were my build I'd just run it as it is. Maybe the 4.9 wasn't all you thought it would be, but my guess is that building it was quite an investment. Spending several thousand more on an ls swap just doesn't make financial sense to me. Particularly when one your reasons for the swap is increased mpg's.

 

[94xj6.5]

a ls1 in an xj should have no trouble getting 20+mpg. make sure you get someone to tune it and you will be good. ive seen them get closer to 30 in a camaro.
mike

 

[Porch951]

An LS motor would be a waste in an XJ, no offense. A 4.7 or 5.3 would be a much better/cheaper alternative and make nearly as much power (since an XJ isn't worth drag racing, you want torque, not horsepower).

That said, there will probably never be a DIY on it. You'll have to make your own motor mounts and figure out what transmission you want to use, and everything from the exhaust to the driveshafts will have to be custom. I've considered going the 5.3 route, but when i added up all the costs it just made me wonder why i wanted to stick with an XJ. For all the time and money there are a lot of other cool 4x4's out there that already have what you want... I'd pick up a CDI JK if i was really concerned about mileage.

Agreed with soopergoober above, too--if it's just MPG's you're worried about, the money you save by not doing a swap will buy a LOT of gas!!

 

[stumpXJ]

Team Willys aka Rock Solid Fab aka Tyler on here did an amazing daily driven LS2 swap. The write up is on here somewhere. I rode in it with 3 other people (probably 800 pounds worth of people in this thing), and it was like a rally car on 37's. It was stupid fast, and I wanted one bad...

It can be done for sure.

~ Stump

Edit, here ya go.

http://naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1033464

 

[casm]

a ls1 in an xj should have no trouble getting 20+mpg. make sure you get someone to tune it and you will be good. ive seen them get closer to 30 in a camaro.
mike

Also, kiss that idea of a 20mpg ls powered xj goodbye. The corvette manages 20mpg because of aerodynamics, not because it has an ls. Sorry, but pushing your xj along at 65mph probably takes about as much energy as pushing the corvette at 85+.

Keyword: aerodynamics. Substitute 'Camaro' for 'Corvette' in the above and it still holds true.

For power and economy, go diesel.

 

[John D]

An LS motor would be a waste in an XJ, no offense. A 4.7 or 5.3 would be a much better/cheaper alternative and make nearly as much power (since an XJ isn't worth drag racing, you want torque, not horsepower).

That said, there will probably never be a DIY on it. You'll have to make your own motor mounts and figure out what transmission you want to use, and everything from the exhaust to the driveshafts will have to be custom. I've considered going the 5.3 route, but when i added up all the costs it just made me wonder why i wanted to stick with an XJ. For all the time and money there are a lot of other cool 4x4's out there that already have what you want... I'd pick up a CDI JK if i was really concerned about mileage.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1007477

Here is a good write-up by Frank Z, there are about ten million more on Pirate and other places. You do not need to go custom on everything. There is a very good line of support for the swaps these days.

The 4.8/5.3/6.0 engines are LS series motors.

If gas mileage is of concern, re-think what you are doing. Gas mileage will also vary from one set-up to another. I just did 150 miles on the expressway at 70-75 mph and I got 12 mpg. I run a 2005 5.3L on 35's with 5.13 gears and about 8" of lift; I am happy with it.

Also, XJ's are fun to drag race...

 

[Johnnie Walker]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1007477

Here is a good write-up by Frank Z, there are about ten million more on Pirate and other places. You do not need to go custom on everything. There is a very good line of support for the swaps these days.

The 4.8/5.3/6.0 engines are LS series motors.

If gas mileage is of concern, re-think what you are doing. Gas mileage will also vary from one set-up to another. I just did 150 miles on the expressway at 70-75 mph and I got 12 mpg. I run a 2005 5.3L on 35's with 5.13 gears and about 8" of lift; I am happy with it.

Also, XJ's are fun to drag race...

This is true.. I raced mine shortly after I got it.. 17.4 @ 76mph.. Not bad for a stocker. Most of the dakota guys I was with at Mopar Magic didn't run much faster than that.

The LQ truck motors (cast-iron) can usually be had for cheaper than the LS (alum) counter parts, and most parts from the LS will fit.
Since I do not really want to shell out cash for a GMPP LSx cast iron block and build.. when I do the swap I will most likely be going with the LQ4/9 6.0L truck engine.
But you will have lots more power regardless of the mileage and you can still run low octane too!

 

[pos89xj]

check out ls1tech.com. they have a hybrid/conversion section where everything from a cherokee to evo to civic to porches have ls1's. great tech also if you have an f-body!

 

[Porch951]

The 4.8/5.3/6.0 engines are LS series motors.

Note quite, but they're very similar. The LS motors are aluminum blocks. The 5.3 is ...LM7 i think? At any rate, the LS motors are usually about 4x as expensive and only really weigh ~50lbs less. Not worth it in a 4x4 where weight isn't a huge concern.

I run an LS1 in my Porsche 944. I get about 23mpg with lousy gearing, but it's also a very light and aerodynamic car.

 

[FlexdXJ]

An LS motor would be a waste in an XJ, no offense. A 4.7 or 5.3 would be a much better/cheaper alternative and make nearly as much power (since an XJ isn't worth drag racing, you want torque, not horsepower).

That said, there will probably never be a DIY on it. You'll have to make your own motor mounts and figure out what transmission you want to use, and everything from the exhaust to the driveshafts will have to be custom. I've considered going the 5.3 route, but when i added up all the costs it just made me wonder why i wanted to stick with an XJ. For all the time and money there are a lot of other cool 4x4's out there that already have what you want... I'd pick up a CDI JK if i was really concerned about mileage.

Agreed with soopergoober above, too--if it's just MPG's you're worried about, the money you save by not doing a swap will buy a LOT of gas!!

I've seen an LS1 and an LS2 As well as a 5.3 swap and they are NOT worthless.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Note quite, but they're very similar. The LS motors are aluminum blocks. The 5.3 is ...LM7 i think? At any rate, the LS motors are usually about 4x as expensive and only really weigh ~50lbs less. Not worth it in a 4x4 where weight isn't a huge concern.

I run an LS1 in my Porsche 944. I get about 23mpg with lousy gearing, but it's also a very light and aerodynamic car.

Ummmmmm, I would listen to John D. :dunno:

 

[Porch951]

I stand correct, the LS-family includes the LM's and LQ's, etc...

I've seen an LS1 and an LS2 As well as a 5.3 swap and they are NOT worthless.

I've seen an LS1 engine before too, in fact i have one in my garage.

I didn't say they were worthless. What i said is that a low mileage LS1/2/3/ motor will set you back a couple of grand ($3-4k on ebay right now), while the 4.7/5.3/6.0 can be had for under $1k in similar shape.

And i do think it's pointless to put a sports car motor into a truck at 4x the cost for the same performance.

 

[Darky]

Well, when you complete your LS swap for efficiency, send me that wortless 4.9, and I'll dispose of it for you...into my Jeep!

 

[KJurasek]

I am just playing around here. I like the idea of a diesel XJ, but have you ever heard the sound a 4BT makes in a XJ? There is no comparison between that and a V8 let alone the acceleration. Overall, I am looking for light and fast. I know the difference between the LQ and LS engines. However I didn't realise the weight difference is only 50lbs. What?? As the LS engines evolve, it seems the earlier engines are coming way down in price. LT series engines (early 90's corvette engines) are very reasonable, but they do not offer the efficiencys of the LS engines. A great combo would be to take a LQ4 short block, a moderate Voodoo cam, and LS2 heads, intake, and computer to top it off. A lot of power at a low price.

You would have most of the efficiencys of the LS2 with the durability of an iron block. I guess cost is the main factor. They are putting the LQ4 in the new Suburban for a reason--cost and efficiency. Now again, I have read that the LS gen III aluminum blocks are actually stronger their cast iron counter parts.

Six bolt main anyone?? Ouch!!

More than anything, I was thinking about putting a hot LS2 into something like the picture attached. Just entertaining thoughts.

KJ

PS.
I want to see how the 4.9 handles before anything.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150393443220591&set=a.369401720590.354979.737595590

 

[John D]

Note quite, but they're very similar. The LS motors are aluminum blocks. The 5.3 is ...LM7 i think?

Yes, LM/LQ is what I meant. Beer and keyboards; what are you gona do

 

[Porch951]

However I didn't realise the weight difference is only 50lbs. What?? As the LS engines evolve, it seems the earlier engines are coming way down in price.

Now again, I have read that the LS gen III aluminum blocks are actually stronger their cast iron counter parts.

It's somewhere around 50lbs. My main automotive love affair is with the 944 LS swaps and the 944's are known for their 50/50 weight distribution. We have the "how much more does an iron block weigh?" argument at least once a week! !!!1 (Adding an extra 50lbs up front can really upset the weight distribution on the 944's)

As for whether the iron block or aluminum block is stronger, i don't have a clue! I do know that the aluminum blocks have a few issues with the starter bosses breaking off, which pretty much junks an otherwise good motor.

Yes, LM/LQ is what I meant. Beer and keyboards; what are you gona do

You were actually right, i guess GM calls all the LM/LQ/LS engines the "LS Series"! I hear "LS" and assume LS1/2/3/6/7/9

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Cast-iron blocks usually can handle more heat. IF you do not plan on forced induction, then the LS block should be fine. But for turbo or S/C you will want the cast iron block.

 

[KJurasek]

Starter boss breaking off?? Interesting. I was looking at a deal on a LS block that had a couple of "mounts" broken off. Now that I think about it, and what you said, I think it was the starter boss. Be careful on Ebay.

Anyway, my overall point I am making with this tread is if I was going to build an engine for a Jeep again, I don't think I would take the stroker route. After reading Novak's site on the LS retro-fit I would go with a LS series engine. Simply put: relatively inexpensive and lots of aftermarket support. The deciding factor on the stroker was I did not want to have to rebuild the dash to fit the LS compatible gauges. I just didn't want to go that far with the build. I wanted to finish somewhere. Novak, along with a few others (ie. Painless Performance), now makes a wiring harness that will connect the LS engine to the existing Jeep guage cluster.

After I read that, I was like, "Damn, I wish I knew that earlier".

I am going to stick with the stroker for this Jeep XJ project. The next Jeep project (possible a manual transmission MJ) I am going to take a different route.

As for insanity? All our projects may seem "insane" to outsiders.

KJ

 

[John D]

Cast-iron blocks usually can handle more heat. IF you do not plan on forced induction, then the LS block should be fine. But for turbo or S/C you will want the cast iron block.

Wouldn't the aluminum shed the heat faster? I don't know, just what I would think.

Anyway, my overall point I am making with this tread is if I was going to build an engine for a Jeep again, I don't think I would take the stroker route. After reading Novak's site on the LS retro-fit I would go with a LS series engine. Simply put: relatively inexpensive and lots of aftermarket support. The deciding factor on the stroker was I did not want to have to rebuild the dash to fit the LS compatible gauges. I just didn't want to go that far with the build. I wanted to finish somewhere. Novak, along with a few others (ie. Painless Performance), now makes a wiring harness that will connect the LS engine to the existing Jeep guage cluster.

After I read that, I was like, "Damn, I wish I knew that earlier".

My original plan was to use factory gauges, I couldn't figure out how to make it work. I literally spent months working on it. When I decided to go another route Novak started modifying the cluster to make it work; I am happy though. The route I went is good and far more accurate. It really wasn't that hard either. The write-up is in my sig.