Lift Points

What is your purpose in lifting it? The FSM says to use a jack with a piece of wood on the harmonic balancer when doing the RMS.
 
I am pulling the engine, transmission and t-case out of a wrecked XJ. I plan to replace my 2.5L after the engine rebuild with 4.0L I pull.
 
iluv83vettes said:
What is your purpose in lifting it? The FSM says to use a jack with a piece of wood on the harmonic balancer when doing the RMS.
Click to expand...

What?!? Why would you say something so blatantly wrong? So you're saying the Factory Service Manual says to jack on the harmonic balancer, which is a sandwich of steel, rubber, and steel, and support the full combined weight of the engine and transmission (probably around 500 lbs or more) while crushing the soft babbit bearings in the main bearings with the crankshaft? In all of my years of being a mechanic I don't think I've ever heard of something so crazy. That has to be some of the worst advice I've ever heard.

Never, I mean Never use the crankshaft or associate bolt on's as a jacking point.

Oh and by the way, I'm looking at the Factory Service Manual right now and not only does it not say to jack on the harmonic balancer to service the rear main seal, it doesn't say to jack up the engine at all.

Wow.......:rtm::doh::huh:

Edit- Upon further thought, you must have been being sarcastic, because nobody would really do that. If that was the case, please disregard above post.
 
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On the ones I've pulled there are head bolts on the Manifold side of the head that have studs extending upward (along side the valve cover) My load leveler came with right angle tabs that slide right over those studs, then you just need nuts that match the thread to attach them securely. I think I ended up using the very front and the very rear stud, since they have more clearance for that tab than those in the middle. but when you are lifting with the tranny attached, almost all of the load will be on the rear chain.
 
I use one of the long spindly bolts for the AC compressor (the ones that hold the compressor down, not the bracket) and one of the rear driver side cylinder head bolts.

I worried about the AC compressor bolts the first time since they're only M8 but so far so good.
 
Warlock1 said:
What?!? Why would you say something so blatantly wrong? So you're saying the Factory Service Manual says to jack on the harmonic balancer, which is a sandwich of steel, rubber, and steel, and support the full combined weight of the engine and transmission (probably around 500 lbs or more) while crushing the soft babbit bearings in the main bearings with the crankshaft? In all of my years of being a mechanic I don't think I've ever heard of something so crazy. That has to be some of the worst advice I've ever heard.

Never, I mean Never use the crankshaft or associate bolt on's as a jacking point.

Oh and by the way, I'm looking at the Factory Service Manual right now and not only does it not say to jack on the harmonic balancer to service the rear main seal, it doesn't say to jack up the engine at all.

Wow.......:rtm::doh::huh:

Edit- Upon further thought, you must have been being sarcastic, because nobody would really do that. If that was the case, please disregard above post.
Click to expand...

No I am not being sarcastic. In the 1999 FSM on page 9-107 in the Oil Pan removal section that is to be referenced while removing the RMS it says ...
"(9)Position a jack stand directly under the engine vibration damper.
(10)Place a piece of wood (2x2) between the jack stand and the engine vibration damper.
(11)Remove the engine mount through bolts.
(12)Using the jack stand, raise the engine until adequate clearance is obtained to remove the oil pan."

I have actual references with page and line numbers.
 
Using the harmonic balancer as a jacking point is a bad idea. That could result in a damaged balancer or worse, a bent crank. The oil pan is fine as long as you distribute the load with a block of wood and be careful. But its limited for to things like changing engine mounts and the such.
 
You really think holding ~500lbs up an inch or two from the first main bearing is gonna bend the crank or smash a bearing? Seems pretty tame to me... and I know I've done worse to 4.0s in transit that continue to run great to this day.

This is a stupid argument.
 
At what point was the crank shaft snout, crappy harmonic balancer and front main bearing designed to be a jacking point? You do know that a crankshaft can bend just from being laid on its side unsupported? Its not that they aren't strong, but they are not designed for use in such a manner.
 
I had no idea, actually. Thanks for the correction.
 
iluv83vettes said:
No I am not being sarcastic. In the 1999 FSM on page 9-107 in the Oil Pan removal section that is to be referenced while removing the RMS it says ...
"(9)Position a jack stand directly under the engine vibration damper.
(10)Place a piece of wood (2x2) between the jack stand and the engine vibration damper.
(11)Remove the engine mount through bolts.
(12)Using the jack stand, raise the engine until adequate clearance is obtained to remove the oil pan."

I have actual references with page and line numbers.
Click to expand...

So do I. 1991 factory service manual, engine, chassis, and body. Pages 9-92 and 9-93, section "rear main oil seal". Too many words for me to type but nowhere does it say anything about jacking up engine in any way. The 4.0 has no crossmember so the oil pan is totally exposed, no need to jack up the engine anyway. The technical writers/editors must have been smoking crack the day they wrote that in your manual.

Besides the damage it could cause to the harmonic balancer, whether or not if it could bend the crank, just the fact that you are putting that much weight on the front most upper main bearing half should be enough to deter anyone from ever thinking about doing that. Think about it, tolerances down to ten thousandths of an inch and a steel shell coated with a bearing material that you can scratch with a fingernail. While the engine is running, the crankshaft floats on a film of pressurized oil that absorbs the impulses from the cylinders firing. With the engine off, there is nothing to stop the damaging of the soft bearing material let alone jacking up on the crank and mashing the bearing between the crank and the main bearing journal.

You do what you want. I will err on the side of caution. Common sense really.
 
Talyn is absolutely correct. I've watched while crankshafts were being machined. And, lets say, the bearing journals were out of line by a couple of thousandths, it takes a relatively small amount of force to realign them while on the machine.
 
Warlock1 said:
So do I. 1991 factory service manual, engine, chassis, and body. Pages 9-92 and 9-93, section "rear main oil seal". Too many words for me to type but nowhere does it say anything about jacking up engine in any way. The 4.0 has no crossmember so the oil pan is totally exposed, no need to jack up the engine anyway.
Click to expand...
I took a look at my 2000 XJ FSM as well as the 2004 WJ FSM. While it doesn't say it under RMS removal, it does say to remove the oil pan and to see that section. In both it says to jack the engine up by the balancer. Hell no. With all the special tools they recommend you think they could have come up with a better method.

a steel shell coated with a bearing material that you can scratch with a fingernail. While the engine is running, the crankshaft floats on a film of pressurized oil that absorbs the impulses from the cylinders firing. With the engine off, there is nothing to stop the damaging of the soft bearing material let alone jacking up on the crank and mashing the bearing between the crank and the main bearing journal.
Click to expand...
All very good and true points adding why this is a bad idea.
 
Jacking from the harmonic balancer is a great idea! when I need to lift my jeep in the air for whatever reason, quite often I jack from the radiator, I mean yea the weight of the vehicle usually beds the radiator and for what ever reason I have to replace at least once a week, so thanks for that advise from now on I will start jacking from the harmonic balancer and the gas tank!:rof:
 
8BtKBuY.jpg

Just gotta notch the angle iron for the coolant temp sensor found on renix blocks.
 
Draven1474 said:
Jacking from the harmonic balancer is a great idea! when I need to lift my jeep in the air for whatever reason, quite often I jack from the radiator, I mean yea the weight of the vehicle usually beds the radiator and for what ever reason I have to replace at least once a week, so thanks for that advise from now on I will start jacking from the harmonic balancer and the gas tank!:rof:
Click to expand...

I was thinking more along the lines of an overhead crane and tying the hoist to the drivers side windshield wiper arm, because it is more centered.:gee:
 
Talyn said:
I took a look at my 2000 XJ FSM as well as the 2004 WJ FSM. While it doesn't say it under RMS removal, it does say to remove the oil pan and to see that section. In both it says to jack the engine up by the balancer. Hell no. With all the special tools they recommend you think they could have come up with a better method.
Click to expand...

Yea, I just looked in that section and it's the same. What the hell were they thinking? It must have been written on a Monday morning. Everyone coming back to work with a major hangover. "Use 2x2 on harmonic balancer" has fewer words than "Make sure feet on engine support bar spans far enough to seat firmly on bolt area of inner fender/outer fender junction area, then attach lifting chains to extended head studs while attaching other end of chains to support screw assembly"

My apologies to iluv83vettes. It does say that but it is most definitely a really bad thing to do.
 
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xcm said:
8BtKBuY.jpg

Just gotta notch the angle iron for the coolant temp sensor found on renix blocks.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I assume you made the brackets, they look nice.

I pulled the engine on Thursday night.

I had eflores help me with it when he stopped by to pick up a door. I ended up one of the alternator bracket holes and a hole on the head to hold then lower the engine while I undid the motor mounts. I had a floor jack under the transmission/t-case while we removed the cross member. We then lowered the whole thing down onto wood blocks. We relocated the chains top to bolts bell housing to engine, and use that to pull the engine, transmission and t-case out of the jeep. This resulting in a unbalance with the engine side being slightly heavier, but this did not matter, as I had cut out the front frame member on this jeep. (The jeep has been wrecked and very poorly repaired in the past, but had a new crack all the way though behind the frame weld at the steering box, not worth saving.)
 
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