Let's talk about the advantages to manuals....

[Kejtar]

Autos aren't all bad, my sister drives 'em, my Mom drove 'em, my Grandma drove 'em.....

 

[woody]

Ari, Ari, Ari... I swear man, you could complicate unbending a paperclip

My personal prefs aside (I liked my 5 speed MJ, till I broke it) I think the swap is gonna be one huge PITA. Maybe you like those? Going from stick to auto would be way easier IMHO, but that isn't the point here.

OTOH if ya can strip wire, and know which end of a soldering iron gets hot, you can wire up your AW4 to do as YOU say, not as Dr Jeep intended. Probably for well under $10. I know your 01 isn't as easy as my old renix (due to yours integrated with the ECM vs my stand-alone TCU) but it's still not rocket science. 4 solenoids and a TC lockup switch to tickle on and you have a poor-boyz Tiptronic.

I won't even get into ease of use or which is better on the trail...Karen owned a hill in my 5-speed MJ (idling up in 1st, not allowed to touch any pedals) an that same hill has denied me too many times with my AW4 XJ. Different days, different WB, same tires. Other spots the auto XJ glides through where the MJ (I?)struggled. Apples to oranges probably, esp since I have got lots more comfy using the fun pedal in the XJ.

I dunno what to tell ta, man... You got the tail of your own kitty

Woody

 

[Eagle]

Ary, if you want an auto ... it's your Jeep. But the swap will be work.

As for ratios, the Peugeot had a 0.72:1 overdrive. As far as I know, the AX-15 had a 0.75: overdrive, and the NV3550 has a 0.78:1 overdrive. Your only choice in affordable, readily available manuals with tall overdrives is the Peugeot, which is not a good choice for anything other than a concourse restoration (for authenticity).

You are much too worried about RPMs. Obviously you skip over all the threads where I've discussed the derivation of the 4.0L engine. This basic engine began life in AMC cars back in 1964, LOOOOOOONG before AMC or anyone else was using overdrives. They tyoically came with 3.08 gears, a 3-speed manual tranny with a 1:1 high gear, and tires much smaller than Jeep tires (something like D70/14 comes to mind ... whatever a D70/14 was, I just remember it was small).

In real life terms, the gearing worked out to 24 MPH per 1000 RPM. 60 MPH was 2500 RPM on the nose. 3000 RPM was 72 MPH. We cruised them at 75 to 80 MPH all over the northeast, and the engines were still good for a couple of hundred thousand miles.

However, here;s another thought for you. Instead of pursuing gears and/or tires, why not just get a transfer case with a 4:1 low range? That way you can run milder gears and large tires, and still have a good crawl ratio.

I won't join the argument about whether or not you "should" convert. I prefer manuals, but after my last couple of trips to Paragon I am convinced that the automatics are better for rock crawling. (Sorry, Mike!)

 

[What Rd]

After convincing yourself you need a manual, the next best step would be to shop for another XJ that CAME with a manual and swap all your goodies onto it. It would wind up being less work and headache.
THEN, when you find it would be cost-prohibitive, you'll give up and be the better off with your good ol' AW4!!!

 

[XJJPR]

I try and stay away from this subject because I get myself in trouble, Like that welding comment, but here it goes.

I have a NV4500 in one jeep and a AW4 in the other jeep. Both are and have been driven on all kinds of trails. I have driven the NV for way more years than the AW and the AW is new to me. The AW has been suprisingly nice to wheel. I do feel I'm busier in the AW than the NV for I'm doing stuff differently than with the NV than the AW. (HUH?)

Here is the kicker to the reason and the only reason (actually there are two) I think the AW works for me is I put an Atlas with 4.3 ratio behind it. If I had to wheel with a 2.72 I would go nuts. I must have the gearing to wheel. Now for the other reason I think the AW works for me, I'm getting older and flakier and it doesn't wear me out as much as pushing in the clutch all day long.

It really is a personal preference, but the right gearing will make or break the preference no matter which tranny you go with. Right now my choice is I would build the jeep with what it had in it. An auto would stay an AW4 and a manual would go to a NV4500.

mark

 

[PaulJ]

You have to factor in the 2.5 hours I sat in traffic

This should should be a good hint about why you might like the AW4.

 

[Kejtar]

This should should be a good hint about why you might like the AW4.

I drive through downtown LA in high traffic time for hte past 2 years (about 60 miles back to home each day) and I tell you.... stick is the only things that keeps me sane.... every so often when my XJ is down I drive some other vehicle and it's always an automatic... and I go nuts! so I don't know what people have about driving a stick in traffic.. it's what makes things fun

 

[Safari Ary]

Ari, Ari, Ari... I swear man, you could complicate unbending a paperclip

Woody

Woody, you have got me rolling on the floor with that one, and you're right, I like making things difficult :angel:. But it's arY!!! It's in my freakin username even!! I'm not jewish, which is where the Ari spelling comes from(short for Ariel, but you'll have a hard time getting one to confess that fact ).

Eagle, I've read the threads where you've gone over gearing and rpms and how the 4.0 can handle it. My desire for gearing is not for off-road. I like short distance acceleration and I realize that I should probably try to figure in some power mods rather than deeper gearing, but I haven't come across any mods that are cost effective for the 4.0

As for which tranny to use, I was envisioning using the 4500 with the deeper first gear(I've heard people discuss this before, where you swap in the deeper first into the appropriate housing). I realize the swap would be work, and that these things are not bolt and go, when are they ever This converstion will depend entirely on how the summer goes $$ wise. I've gotta build the 50/60 first, front suspension and get an Atlas before I'll even begin seriously considering the 4500 swap(I don't need an atlas, nor can I afford one, which shows where this stands on my list of priorities). I was just bored this morning and was thinking about this on my way back from home last night.

Ary "the dreamer" '01xj

P.S. I RARELY drive in traffic, but getting 25,000 students back into a town of 50,000 people(including the students) in one night presents its challenges to the roadways and their levels of congestion.

 

[MrShoeBoy]

O man where to start! Ary, you got your self into a pickle here

There was a post a few months back about using gears from a Toyota Supra in the AX-15. The AX-15 is related to the Supra tranny because of the manifacture Asian Warner which came with a lower first gear and a taller 5th gear or something like that. I cant remember the exact details but the cost of changing the gearing inside the tranny was outragious so I didnt both pursuing it farther.

As for the axle gearing in relation to the tranny gearing, I have Bridgestone Dueller A/Ts in the 32x11.50 flavor and 4.10s. At 80mph or so I am just under 3,000rpm. It doesnt feel like the motor is going to blow up or anything. No need to down shift to pass people unlis you really want to get around them in a hurry. I usually cruse at 70 to 75mph and the rpms are around 2500 to 2800.

Since you are a speed demon you should really consider getting an intake, t-body, header, and full exhaust. You would be surprised how well these mods will work in the accerlation department. If you want to go for a little bit more, add a cam and FEEL the power Thats basically what I did but with a few more mods

Driving with the manual offroad will take all sorts of finess. Its very difficult to rock crawl with it so be warned. I like the challenge of the manual offroading when compared to an auto but again each person to his own

Now for the swap:

1. Tranny of your choice, AX-15 or NV3500. I would go with one of these just for cost and ease of swapability. They are both Jeep trannys that came in the XJ stock. Try and get the tranny with a bell housing. Stay away from 93 and older AX-15. They have the crapy internal slave cylinder. 94 and newer AX-15s and the NV3500 have external slaves.

2. Use the flywheel for the same year as your Jeep. You have a 2001 right? SO use a flywheel out of a 2001 XJ. Theres issues with crank position sensor if you try and use a different flywheel. I dont know about the later models but I screwed up and used the flywheel out of my 89 doner Jeep in my 91 and couldnt get the engine to fire because of the different CPS thing.

3. Computer-Again for the newer Jeeps, I believe the auto tranny is controlled by the ECU and not a seperate computer so you may have issues with the ECU seeing that there is not an auto tranny attached. You may have to change to a manual tranny ECU. There will be some wireing issues and you will just have to figure them out with the factory manual or just cut and see what happens.

4.Shifter: Pull out that auto shifter and toss it! You will have to make a custom cover for the hole left by the auto shifter. The manual tranny hole is very small when compared to the auto. This is no big deal, just a small piece of sheet metal.

5. Clutch and petals: You should be able to look way up on the fire wall and see 3 punch marks. The center punch mark is for the plunger of the master cylinder and the top and bottom punch mark is for the mounting bolts. Remove the auto brake petal and install the clutch and brake petal assymbly from a manual equiped XJ. Try and take all parts from the same year Jeep as yours. DC made all sorts of small weird changes that will throw the absolutly biggest monkey wrench you have ever seen into your project.

I am sure that there is some stuff that I have left out or gotten wrong so point it out and I can fix it.

Good Luck

AARON

EDIT: Had to add some stuff

 

[XJEEPER]

Drove a 5 speed for 5 years......wheeled all over Moab with it and thought it was fine.....hated it in traffic. (SLC rush hours can really create suction)
Then one day it hits me......I have 2 feet.....yet 3 pedals? So the decision was made to out the Peugoat and slip in an AW4.........best mod I ever did to my XJ. Period. It's much easier to wheel, there's less stress transfer to the drivetrain, and my left leg and stop and go traffic creates much less suction. I can alter my line mid-obstacle without backing up to try again, my wife even likes to drive it more now.

If I had to do it over, I'd just buy a 97-up XJ with an AW4, cause that's what I want now anyway.......and someone is gonna get an 89 with an AW4 from a 96 that looks and drives like it came stock with an auto......and my time and efforts will Blue Book out at $0.00.

 

[BrettM]

i would prefer a manual, but only if it's an NV4500 followed by a Klune, followed by an Atlas. You just plain need more gearing with a stick.

 

[shizza-my-nizza]

Putting aside all the gearing talk and assuming that the vehicle is set up properly for the terain it is a matter of preference. I believe that in some situations it is easier to drive an auto and in other situations it is easier to drive a manual. I personly love having a stick in my XJ. But I am going to be starting a new trail rig XJ project with a 95 that has an AW4 There is no way I am going to go to the trouble to swap it out. The jeep only cost me $1000. I am going to build it and wheel it. Then I will have an auto and a manual. I will see how I like wheeling with the auto. I suspect I will be happy with it especially with some electronic mods. Later, Eric

 

[Kejtar]

I RARELY drive in traffic, but getting 25,000 students back into a town of 50,000 people(including the students) in one night presents its challenges to the roadways and their levels of congestion.

Simple solution.. either be a day early or a day late

 

[Safari Ary]

Simple solution.. either be a day early or a day late

Yeah yeah, the parents didn't want me to leave early 'cause they'd miss me, not like they won't seem e again in 2.5 weeks for an entire month (for all you parents out there, I know I'm being inconsiderate, it's my job at this age ). And if they knew I was gonna miss a class, well, let's just not go there. So the day late thing wouldn't have worked either. I just kick myself for not taking the back way into town which not a whole lot of people know about. However if I had done that I wouldn't have been able to help the stranded YJer on the side of the road with a blown up front DS. 'Twas a long night no matter which way you look at it.

Ary

 

[woody]

"However if I had done that I wouldn't have been able to help the stranded YJer on the side of the road with a blown up front DS. 'Twas a long night no matter which way you look at it."

Ary, was she cute? A front DS removal takes what- 10 minutes? with 8mm and 13mm wrenches or much less with ratchet & sockets?

 

[Safari Ary]

"However if I had done that I wouldn't have been able to help the stranded YJer on the side of the road with a blown up front DS. 'Twas a long night no matter which way you look at it."

Ary, was she cute? A front DS removal takes what- 10 minutes? with 8mm and 13mm wrenches or much less with ratchet & sockets?

Unfortunately it was a dude. Guy was talkin all this crap about the 60s he had at home to put under it this summer, but he didn't understand that with the disco housing his front DS shouldn't be turning in the first place. Oh well, he wanted to pull it, so I pulled it and he thanked me and I went on my way. Dunno if it fixed his problem or not. The highway courtesy patrol showed up right after I pulled the shaft and they knew his dad, so I figured they'd take care of him if I hadn't fixed the problem. I had already been on the road for 6.5 hours on a drive that I've done in 3.5(normally takes 4.5-5). So I was beat and just wanted to get home. The whole reason I stopped is because it looked like a buddy of mine who has a bad habit of blowing up his drivetrain on the highway.

Ary

 

[Eagle]

There was a post a few months back about using gears from a Toyota Supra in the AX-15. The AX-15 is related to the Supra tranny because of the manifacture Asian Warner which came with a lower first gear and a taller 5th gear or something like that. I cant remember the exact details but the cost of changing the gearing inside the tranny was outragious so I didnt both pursuing it farther.

Are you certain that thread wasn't addressing automatics? Aisin Warner makes (made) the AW-4, but the AX-15 was made by Aisin-Seiki. I don't know, but it's a rather "notchy" transmission, and I doubt very much that Toyota would have tolerated it's harsh shifting in a Supra.

 

[MrShoeBoy]

Are you certain that thread wasn't addressing automatics? Aisin Warner makes (made) the AW-4, but the AX-15 was made by Aisin-Seiki. I don't know, but it's a rather "notchy" transmission, and I doubt very much that Toyota would have tolerated it's harsh shifting in a Supra.

I think it was something close to that, Asian something. I will change my earlyer post in regards to the manifacture. I do remember that somebody was talking about swaping in lower gears for the manual tranny in a post, thats why I was intersted in it. If it was the auto, I wouldnt have thought twice about it I think it was the Marlin Crawler website that had the parts info. You would probally have to email them as I dont think that they would have such info on such a rare expensive swap on line.

EDIT: Found the post about gearing in the AX-15 http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13106&highlight=Marlin+Crawler So it was only for the first gear ratio and not the 5th gear ratio.

I really dont think that the AX-15 is that harsh of shifting. I have always used the Moble 1 synethic gear oil and its been smooth sailing for me. I am not going to argue about lube because its been beaten like a dead horse.

AARON

 

[Georgia Mike]

The only reason there is a 1500 diffrence in towing capacity between the AW-4 and the AX-15 is that DC doesn't think that Americans are proficient enough with the clutch to handle towing heavy loads. The quality of the AX-15 is not a factor.

I wheel for the challenge. Automatics take the challenge away.

DC had nothing to do with it in '94,which is the year manual I read it out of(mine). I still say the AW-4 is better,but that's just my opinion,and you have yours Ain't America grand? I feel like I have more control over my rig with an auto,I can drive with both feet and feather the brake and throttle when I need to,and stop on uphill slopes with no rolling back without having to do my best Lars Ulrich impression with my feet. It's just easier on me,that's all. If you guys think that autos take the challenge away,why not ditch the lockers,lifts,and off-road tires for a *real* challenge, then?

 

[Scott Mac]

DC had nothing to do with it in '94,which is the year manual I read it out of(mine). I still say the AW-4 is better,but that's just my opinion,and you have yours Ain't America grand? I feel like I have more control over my rig with an auto,I can drive with both feet and feather the brake and throttle when I need to,and stop on uphill slopes with no rolling back without having to do my best Lars Ulrich impression with my feet. It's just easier on me,that's all. If you guys think that autos take the challenge away,why not ditch the lockers,lifts,and off-road tires for a *real* challenge, then?

Ok then maybe not DC but Chrysler. I'm not trying to dog you with this question but what have you based your conclusion with? Have you driven a XJ with a AX-15?

I ran open diffs and 30" tires for quite some time before going bigger. And it was just as much fun as wheeling with it now. The only difference is the places I wheel.