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Knock System

Looking at this companies family of products.

http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockMonitor-KS-4.aspx

Last time my Kid was in town he heard a bit of detonation at WOT, above 4,500rpm, A/C running. As the Heep's "ping" frequency should be 5.8KHz and that happens to be smack dab in the middle of my hearing loss, I can't hear it at all... Not even a bit of it.

Hence the sensor. This model, the KS-4, can be interfaced with thier Knock Analyzer Pro:

http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockAnalyserPro.aspx

Do not think this would help me out, but it might be of use to someone who can actually hear... Even amplified, this will not overcome my nerve loss.

I am looking at the KS-4 rather than the KS-3 as the -4 has the capability to output a signal that can be used on a laptop. With the laptop, I can actually see what is going on.

Comments?
 
Why not pull another 1* timing out above 4,000rpm?
 
Ordanace, good question that. The issue is getting a quailty unit in that frequency range. Not having a lot of luck. I am in process of sending up an inquiry to Phormula about this very issue.


Marty, the purpose of the project is to stop guessing at the timing. Put some science into it. By giving up timing arbitrarily, I run the risk of giving up Hp. ANd I did crank bacl the timing as a general precaution until I can resolve this.

If only I could hear... But that would make it all to easy.
 
Response from Phormula:

Anthony Rickson [email protected]
12:47 AM (6 hours ago)
Hi David,
The bandwidth settings are used as a guide and the KS4 unit will still detect knock either
side of the set frequency.
We have many customers running these units on big bore applications.
Best regards,
Anthony

So, it appears that all will be well. Once I have this thing on hand, I will document for those interested.
 
Sounds like they might be using a resonant sensor instead of flat response sensor. You may be able to use an O'scope with a resonant type from the junkyard to see if it would work before laying out the cash. Of course, have a driver with a good ear helping while you read the scope.

Must of hit send same time you got your answer. Disregard and good luck with project
 
Last edited:
Ordered Monday June 25 with an UPS ground ship. Is scheduled to be in my sweaty hands June 28. Ordered from Apex Speed Technology out of SoCal. BTW, it shipped the same day I ordered it.

Am now exchanging emails with Phormula. They are interested in how this works out for me and by extension, for any of you guys out there with timing "opportunities". I do not belive in problems, just "opportunities for improvement".

Stay tuned, I will post up pics and results as they happen.
 
It arrived last night around 6pm.



PhormulaKS4-1.jpg


Contents include the electronics, the sensor w/wiring and even the bolt.

PhormulaKS4-2.jpg


Now I need to find a place, preferably near the center of the head, plug side, for the sensor.

The wiring requires that you to terminate it but this allows for it to be extended if needs be.

Will update once it is in.
 
I think there are some unused bolt holes on the driver's side block. At least on my 2000 there are like 2. Plug side there isn't much unused. Where was the Renix sensor mounted?
 
I think there are some unused bolt holes on the driver's side block. At least on my 2000 there are like 2. Plug side there isn't much unused. Where was the Renix sensor mounted?

in one of the bosses you are referring to on the side of the block :D the parts store replacement for the OEM renix sensor also looks identical to the one in the pic above, and includes the bolt.
 
Well......

I looked long and wide and found one location on the distributor side. It is a grounding point aft of the dizzy. Problem is, it is only a 5/16" and not an 8mm.

Will pull it and look to see if I might be able to convince it to be larger. If it is deep enough and I can get a right angle drill in there, I may be able to open it to the 8mmz1.25 thread I need.

How poorly do you thing an "adaptor" would work. I could take a chunk of the 1/2" T6 aluminium I have laying around (doesn't everyone?) and machine out the 8mm threads, and use the existing point to mount it. I may just go ahead and try that first.

I ask you all to have patience with this. It will take me a very long time to get this done due to my disability.

As an example, it took me the better part of a MONTH to install the BW flat flares. Should have taken around 4 hours, not weeks...

I really do hate being disabled. I do not let it stop me, but it sure slows me down.

Talyn, isn't the 2000 block different? When did they change them? Due to early onset Senility (according the the Wife, at any rate) I do not recall... A picture would help a ton as I get about 5 minutes of leaning over the fenders before I have to stop. Less if I have to crawl under the Heep. Only issue I have with the Driver's side is the heat. Phormula strongly reccomends staying as far away as possible. I will go look though, good suggestion, thanks.

Grimm, yah the sensor is a Bosch part. Used by most vehicle and aftermarket folks because they work.

This installation will be temporary as I see no need to permanently install the thing. Just resolve the timing and set it aside. So, I will be hitting Radio Shack up for a power adaptor to plug into the accessory power outlet. Only need 1A of power. I am also shopping for some sort of software to run on the laptop to take advantage of the 0-5VDc signal output of the KS-4 electronics.
 
How poorly do you thing an "adaptor" would work. I could take a chunk of the 1/2" T6 aluminium I have laying around (doesn't everyone?) and machine out the 8mm threads, and use the existing point to mount it. I may just go ahead and try that first.
I believe a knock sensor installation to be very specific. There is even a torque value listed for the bolts and I have read that even the that value is very important. If wouldn't use an adapter.
Talyn, isn't the 2000 block different? When did they change them?
I don't know when they changed the different bosses if ever. It was a myth that the 00+ XJ block was very different from the previous XJ blocks. The WJ and 00+ TJ blocks are vastly different though.
A picture would help a ton as I get about 5 minutes of leaning over the fenders before I have to stop.
Pics of my 2000 block:
P1240099.jpg

Unused bosses circled in red
P1200694.jpg


This installation will be temporary as I see no need to permanently install the thing.
I would leave it in as octane rating can change from gas station to gas station and even time of the year. You also have to take into account atmospheric variables.
 
The more I think about it the more I think it doesn't belong on the passenger side of the block. There is a lot of space between the cylinders and the sensor on that side. Cam, lifters, push rod cavities, etc.
 
I hear ya on the disability part! Also doesn't help that i have no spare vehicle and no garage(that i can fit a vehicle in, let alone a lifted Jeep). Projects take way too damn long now...
 
Talyn,
Thanks for the pics and advice. As much as I hate the idea, I will slide under the rig and take a look at the block. The hole near the number 6 cylinder looks promising. Atmospheric compensation is built into the F/IC as it uses manifold PSIa to select the cell in the map. As for fuel variability. we have it all year long as the amount of Ethanol changes between Winter and Summer blends. The pumps state "Contains at least 10% Ethanol" It actually goes as high as 15% in the winter.

This makes for an interesting problem for a tuner. Even at 10%, the Stoichiometric value of the fuel drops from 14.7 to 14.2. And the Heeps PCM want to keep things at 14.7. So, we run very lean here, all year long.

I also do not have a spare vehicle. I used to but, the Kid went off the University and took it with him. Blasted kids anyway... Plus, he had the rig (93 ZJ Limited) whacked in the dorm parking lot and it got totalled by the Insurance company. So now he drives a 90 Subaru Legacy L.
 
I would just use a 5/16 bolt instead of the included 8mm one. 5/16 and 8mm are within (iirc) 2.5 thou of the same size. Just make sure to convert the torque spec to handle the difference in thread helix angle and result in the same bolt tension.

I may be talking out my nether regions here but it makes sense to me... if I'm wrong someone tell me why.
 
The factory knock sensor goes in the middle hole you have circled there in between 3 and 4.

The hole there at the middle of the pan rail?
 
The factory knock sensor goes in the middle hole you have circled there in between 3 and 4.


Good enough for the Factory, good enough for me!

Yah the difference between a 5/16 and an 8mm is mouse nuts.

8 mm = 0.314960"
5/16" = 0.312500"

You know, mouse nuts, no big deal.

I was sort of hoping someone with an early, knock equipped Heep would chime in. Thanks John. Once the heat wave dies down here (along with the fire...) I will slide under and see what can be done. I did pick up another 12V power adaptor from Rat Shack. Comes with a fuse in it.
 
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