Just Another XJ on tons, coilovers, 42's, etc. Build

[rockclimber]

I had issues with the early ruffstuff Heims in my panhard. Lost 3 or 4 in less than a year. Since they replaced the last ones I have not had an issue. Going on about a year with the current ones.

 

[shortxjdoug]

Im on a crusade against ballistic joints.... Mine were all crap. The 1.25" ruffstuff heims in my wife's jeep have developed a touch of slop, but it was an extremely worthwhile switch

 

[freerider15]

So, got a bit of work done.

As always never as much as I wanted...but always better to shoot for getting more done. Still got a bit done though.

Things not pictured I got done:
- Dismantled, cleaned, installed the Taurus fan as well as got it fitted with a weatherpack fitting
- Got all the brake calipers 100% mounted
- Mounted the T-case shifter and got the tranny shifter fully done

Got the Yukon Hubs on :smokin:

Got this in today (joints, truss bridge, nylon tubing):

Unfortunately the truss bridge won't work. I'll use it as a template to build my own though.

So...onto some comparisons. So let it be known that jumping from a joint, to a rod end isn't exactly a direct swap per se. Come to find out, rod ends are slightly shorter (ok a little more than slightly) from end of thread to hole center. Luckily for me they'll still work just fine, but for someone without much adjustability it could really make for a not so good day.

I will say this for the ballistic joints where they get a thumbs up over the heims...the amount of shank they have is impressive. I wish the heims had that much, but mine should be just fine as it.

Side to side:

Top to top:

So...in my infinite wisdom...I realized I forgot to order the two joints for the panhard.

Luckily I needed to make another RuffStuff order, as I'm going to keep the front frame side lower control arms at a 9/16" bolt. Why? Well because un-fukking-fortunately I can't get a drill in there to open them up

Rear suspension swapped:

Unfortunatley I'll be spending another few hours pulling them all off one end at a time again. Going to go uniform and run RuffStuff jam nuts on all ends...the current jam nuts will go with their respective joints.

Needless to say, If I were to do this all over (or if I decide the change it later) the front frame side lower control arm heims would be mounted horizontal, and I'd use a certain RuffStuff Bracket in place. I might actually do the swap one day, cutting out my old mount, if I'm ever bored and want something to do.

On another note...I found buying DOM from Dan at RuffStuff was cheaper per foot even AFTER shipping than buying it here locally...and that's not even taking into account the normal 10% off you can get :laugh:

Focus for this week will go back off getting brakes and suspension 100% done, and back to the motor since I'll be waiting on that order.

Going to try and get the motor running and pretty well done this weekend :greensmok

So that means over the course of the week I need to:
- Tighten all fuel fittings
- Run vacuum hose for the fuel pressure regulator
- Flush the block's cooling ports
- Install all coolant hoses and get them clamped in place
- Do an oil change
- Fill Tranny
- Reinstall all hydro hoses and get the system filled
- Work on getting the harness plugged in and secured.

 

[rockclimber]

S

I will say this for the ballistic joints where they get a thumbs up over the heims...the amount of shank they have is impressive. I wish the heims had that much, but mine should be just fine as it.

I'm sure there is some sort of reasoning behind this, but I agree, it is annoying.

Luckily I needed to make another RuffStuff order, as I'm going to keep the front frame side lower control arms at a 9/16" bolt. Why? Well because un-fukking-fortunately I can't get a drill in there to open them up

get some f-911s for those bolts

 

[MoparManiac]

Sweet progress dude!

First off, I don't see the need for such a long shank. If you have more than 1" of exposed threads, you're at risk of bending the shank anyway since it's now the weakest point (seen it happen to people). I set up my arms to pretty much bury the heim into them. I could thread them in probably 3-4 threads until they're buried right now.

Also, I don't know what you use for hardware, but get some locknuts for all your suspension bolts (shocks, links, trackbar, etc.) and trash any lockwashers if you're using them. I use the conical top lock nuts on almost everything. I've retorqued stuff after wheeling for a year and never needed to retighten anything. I love them. For general wheeling, I don't see you breaking a good quality grade 8 9/16 bolt as long as it's torqued and doesn't loosen.

Definitely wouldn't hurt to upgrade to at least 5/8" bolts with weld washers at some point in the future, but I wouldn't be in a panic over it.

 

[Vanimal]

Also, I don't know what you use for hardware, but get some locknuts for all your suspension bolts (shocks, links, trackbar, etc.) and trash any lockwashers if you're using them. I use the conical top lock nuts on almost everything. I've retorqued stuff after wheeling for a year and never needed to retighten anything. I love them. For general wheeling, I don't see you breaking a good quality grade 8 9/16 bolt as long as it's torqued and doesn't loosen.

Yep, get a fine thread bolt with the longest shoulder that will fit without the nut bottoming out on it, use a flat washer on each side, and use a stover nut with red locktite. the bolt should be cut roughly a few threads past the nut.

 

[freerider15]

get some f-911s for those bolts

Not going to spend the coin on F911's...ain't racing the thing

I'd rather the bolt break than destroy the mount at this point.

Sweet progress dude!

First off, I don't see the need for such a long shank. If you have more than 1" of exposed threads, you're at risk of bending the shank anyway since it's now the weakest point (seen it happen to people). I set up my arms to pretty much bury the heim into them. I could thread them in probably 3-4 threads until they're buried right now.

Also, I don't know what you use for hardware, but get some locknuts for all your suspension bolts (shocks, links, trackbar, etc.) and trash any lockwashers if you're using them. I use the conical top lock nuts on almost everything. I've retorqued stuff after wheeling for a year and never needed to retighten anything. I love them. For general wheeling, I don't see you breaking a good quality grade 8 9/16 bolt as long as it's torqued and doesn't loosen.

Definitely wouldn't hurt to upgrade to at least 5/8" bolts with weld washers at some point in the future, but I wouldn't be in a panic over it.

The thing with the the shank to me has to do with thread engagement when you do have the joint out some. With the joint a few threads out, your right about at the limit of loosing some thread engagement. Guess its more just peace of mind to me.

I'll be going with Stover Nuts with some Red Loctite one I go for final torque of all ends.

Several have pointed out across Pirate and other sites that locknuts aren't "exactly" designed for our use (not that they won't actually work).

I've got weld washers (not 4130 or anything) where it will count most at the moment. If I start wallowing out anything I'll revisit it, though I doubt I will need to.

My only real concern is the front frame side lowers. But, as I've said if they give me any trouble its not something a day and some brackets from RuffStuff can't very quickly fix. I'll run them as is, and if I don't have any problems then they'll stay as is

Yep, get a fine thread bolt with the longest shoulder that will fit without the nut bottoming out on it, use a flat washer on each side, and use a stover nut with red locktite. the bolt should be cut roughly a few threads past the nut.

I won't go with fine thread, several reasons for that given their application. I will be going with stover nuts and some loctite for the final final tighten and torque.

 

[freerider15]

Oh, and I'd be curious to see how many actually torque their all their bolts to spec

5/8"-11 bolt, i.e a common link bolt size...210 ft. lbs.
9/16"-12...150 ft. lbs.

I'm willing to bet most get it as tight as they can with a normal ratchet...and not bust out the torque wrench.

 

[rockclimber]

I won't go with fine thread, several reasons for that given their application. I will be going with stover nuts and some loctite for the final final tighten and torque.

care to elaborate? just curious.

 

[Vanimal]

I won't go with fine thread, several reasons for that given their application. I will be going with stover nuts and some loctite for the final final tighten and torque.

Curious as to why, seeing that fine thread bolts are stronger (larger pitch diameter) and can be torqued higher. I'm by no means an expert, but I am around a fair bit of desert race cars on a daily basis and the general rule of thumb is fine thread unless you're going into aluminum.

 

[freerider15]

care to elaborate? just curious.

I've dealt with fine thread enough before, and would rather keep to course.

While yes fine thread has a greater load spread over the teeth in the threading, it just tends to be more finicky around dirty environments. Given that the shoulders on your normal bolts from the hardware store end up making it so there is some thread riding in the mounting hole, fine thread has distorted more on me than course.

Think of it in military vehicle terms

Military threads aren't as precise in order to allow for the assembly in a dirty environment.

If need be I can bust out a small file and fix threads to where the nut will engage on course, much harder on fine.

If it is a situation to where I can't run a very long bolt to where there will be threads sticking out past the bolt, then yes I use fine thread.

Personal preference I guess.

 

[freerider15]

Curious as to why, seeing that fine thread bolts are stronger (larger pitch diameter) and can be torqued higher. I'm by no means an expert, but I am around a fair bit of desert race cars on a daily basis and the general rule of thumb is fine thread unless you're going into aluminum.

Stronger, not in shear. Grade 8 = Grade 8 (though in reality if assembled correctly, there is next to no shear load on a bolt when in use )

In the sense of torque load on the threads, yes. But that is not so much what I care about.

See my post above

 

[rockclimber]

makes sense, about the coarse threads dealing with dirty environments easier. fine threads are easier to **** up.

but you are not loading those bolts in shear. you are loading them in tension, which makes a fine thread bolt stronger in this application. if you load those bolts in shear, then you've lost clamp load.

 

[freerider15]

makes sense, about the coarse threads dealing with dirty environments easier. fine threads are easier to **** up.

but you are not loading those bolts in shear. you are loading them in tension, which makes a fine thread bolt stronger in this application. if you load those bolts in shear, then you've lost clamp load.

Yeah, and when you have to "finesse" a bolt through...fine thread is a wee bit more temper-mental about that

Technically yes the bolts are in tension about their longitudinal axis. What I meant was the force from a link or shock that puts a shear load on the bolt body (if clamping force is not 100%). However if an assembly is properly built (not going to get it 100% with what we do) and torqued correctly, yes then all there should be is tension on the longitudinal axis of the bolt, as all the shear is taken by whatever the clamping load is against, not the bolt body itself. That is an ideal situation, not exactly what we work with

People can argue about it back and forth a million times. But, I'm not desert racing, I'm not running KOH (and even then you're going to find many guys doing what we "rec" guys do), or the Baja 1000. If I had a lot of money on the line, etc. etc. then sure. At that point though you're also designing everything in CAD to run FMEA's and do iterations to find the lightest and strongest combo, doing lots of R&D, and going above and beyond what we do.

I'm running heims...that right there is point enough. I'm a mechanical engineer with a dab of common sense about not seeing the forest through the trees.

I will be carrying spare stuff (point of the action packer on the buggy). This will allow me to carry some spare bolts and nuts.

I ain't skeered!

 

[rockclimber]

its gonna fold like a taco! .!..!.

 

[freerider15]

its gonna fold like a taco! .!..!.

Well at least it will be a glorious show when it does then

 

[MoparManiac]

Can you elaborate on the locknut deal? Never heard of issues with it.

I've never had an issue with them.

 

[MoparManiac]

I also think you'll be hard pressed to hurt a 9/16 link bolt. Especially if you're not racing.

I know for sure I haven't been torquing my 5/8 link bolts fully. And I don't run weld washers. And the holes are still fine after a few races.

 

[freerider15]

Can you elaborate on the locknut deal? Never heard of issues with it.

I've never had an issue with them.

Most have never had issues with them, it's more to the fact that a nylon lock nut isn't going to hold from deformation as well as a deforming stover nut. The nylon is what deforms to the thread to essentially give it that "hold". Both are good at holding, but i've never had a stover (deforming nut) come loose on me. I have had a couple nylock nuts come somewhat loose on me in various scenarios (still held their place, just not as tight as needed). The constant vibration,hitting, and heat cycling seemed to loosen the hold the nylon had.

It is much like the nuts you use on yokes (t-case or axle). Those nuts in most instances are stover style nuts (i.e. one use). You don't see nylocks for use with those.

Once again, a little more personal preference. Not that nylocks wouldn't be just fine, I just prefer a deforming one use nut.

I also think you'll be hard pressed to hurt a 9/16 link bolt. Especially if you're not racing.

I know for sure I haven't been torquing my 5/8 link bolts fully. And I don't run weld washers. And the holes are still fine after a few races.

Yeah, as I said unless I have problems with it, I'm going with the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" method.

If I do, I've already got a solution that won't be too too much work.

 

[rockclimber]

I've had the nylon part come out of the nylock a few times, which is annoying. on the flip side, I had a 3/4" stover seize on a bolt in my steering... that sucked.