Is "right to work" legislation any benefit to anyone

[FlexdXJ]

As a lot of you know there has been recent legislation going on in several states including my own involving becoming a "right to work" state. Now as a union worker this pisses me off but at the same time i don't think its gonna benefit workers(union or not) in any way.

Here is an article:
http://www.therepublic.com/view/category/2100


Now I am not a very political person I am just looking for other peoples views on the subject.

 

[Jeepman401]

Summary of the law? I didn't really get it out of the article

 

[CherBear]

From watching the news, I understand that it makes it illegal to demand that the company that employs you only hires union workers or something to that effect.
Sparknotes: You don't have to hire union workers anymore?

 

[FlexdXJ]

Yeah, here is HB1028:
http://www.in.gov/apps/lsa/session/billwatch/billinfo?year=2011&request=getBill&docno=1028

 

[CherBear]

Meh, I am for this bill in some ways, against it in others.

I do believe that workers should have the right to be represented, everyone wants a fair deal.

However I dont think that anyone should be forced to join a union to work at a particular job.

 

[Boatwrench]

To answer the question 'Is right to work legislation any benefit to anyone?
Yes. It benefits those that sign other people paychecks.

 

[WB9YZU]

I've always worked in a Non-Union industry, so I don't have much experience with them as an employee.

Over the last decade the public sector Unions have bargained away pay in exchange for benefits and employment. Now their benifit packages seem out of line with the private sector. As a result (it seems) our State is looking at taking away collective bargaining for anything other than wages from public employees to the State and Municipals can make cuts in benefits and staffing without having to deal with the Unions.

They are not allowed to strike, and without collective bargaining, why pay dues to a Union which is now toothless?

Like I said, the industries I've worked in were Non-Union. But in a Union/Non-Union industry like an being an Electrician (where it is allowed-like WI), don't the Non-Union shops have to keep up with the Union pay and benefits and visa versa?

 

[FlexdXJ]

Just got word this morning that the bill has been dropped in Indiana. Now they are working on passing a bill similar to what Arizona did for immigration.

 

[hawkfn18]

I was a union electrician for over 10 yrs. Notice I said "was". Unions are a good thing to have as far as representation goes, however, the wages have gotten out of control. Union contractors have to charge enough to pay for that union employee and his benefits and to make a profit. How can anyone be profitable when they have to charge that much when a non union company can do it for half the price. I've seen good non union electricians and hack non union electricians that I wouldn't even let change a light bulb. I know a s**t ton of prior union guys that have gone non union in order to work so their families can eat and have a roof over their heads. Now if a union member gets laid off they are told at my old local "maybe you should find a new line of work". Tell me whats the point of fair representation and paying dues if your own union doesn't even help you? I'm not bashing unions at all or saying that non-union is the way to go, but I think the writing is on the wall for unions because they have gotten greedy and it has not done anything for those it represents.

 

[old_man]

Colorado is a "right to work" state. That means your employer can fire you because your hair isn't purple on Tuesday. It means that to keep your job, you have to work, and can't hide behind the union. I've never had a problem.

 

[Boatwrench]

don't the Non-Union shops have to keep up with the Union pay and benefits and visa versa?

Generally yes. The mechanics at dealers in San Francisco make $2-$4 per hour more than the mechanics that work for the county ran transit system. The medical and retirement is better at the county. Union dues are the same at both.

 

[XJLI]

Colorado is a "right to work" state. That means your employer can fire you because your hair isn't purple on Tuesday. It means that to keep your job, you have to work, and can't hide behind the union. I've never had a problem.

this

unions were a great idea in the 20s when people were dying bc they had to crawl through running motors to fix a problem...

now its just a bunch of fat cats.

 

[Jeepman401]

Colorado is a "right to work" state. That means your employer can fire you because your hair isn't purple on Tuesday. It means that to keep your job, you have to work, and can't hide behind the union. I've never had a problem.

I agree. I see way too many union employees who don't work protected when they should be out of a job.

Unions can be good in some cases, but most of the time, the benefits don't seem to add up to the aggravation.

 

[iwannadie]

I like being in a union and haven't seen anyone being lazy protected by the union. The unions reps are also employees. No employee wants to work twice as hard to carry the dead weight of the lazy people. The whole idea of unions protecting people who don't work makes no sense to me.

I've worked at places where they would give people raises based on friendships or something stupid. I've seen guys who work hard and should have gotten a merit raise but were told they couldn't keep getting raises because other employees are jealous. Why should there be a merit raise system only to deny a person because other people who don't work hard would be jealous? Being in a union takes away the merit raise and ensures you get equal treatment as everyone else. That doesn't open the door to people being lazy because no one wants to carry other peoples work.

I've had new supervisors come in and think they are top of the food chain and try to step all over the workers(me). One talk with a union steward and that all comes to an end and the supervisor is put in their place. I shouldn't have to feed into some supervisors power trip to keep my job or suck up to them daily.

No system is perfect and sure the union is not perfect but I think it's the better of the choices. Being in arizona we don't have to join the union which I think is fair to have the choice.

The right to work system is scary. At any time you can be fired with no justification. How can you plan for your future or live comfortable if you can loose your job at any time? All it takes is one manager to come in and not like you or for them to want you gone so they can hire their friend and your gone. Who's to say they won't just clean house and fire everyone every 5 years just to get new lower paid people in? What gain is that for you to give them that power? It would be fine if everyone were honest but we don't live in that world. It will come down to favoritism at some point and you may not be in the favorable end of it.

 

[Ralph]

The right to work system is scary. At any time you can be fired with no justification. How can you plan for your future or live comfortable if you can loose your job at any time? All it takes is one manager to come in and not like you or for them to want you gone so they can hire their friend and your gone. Who's to say they won't just clean house and fire everyone every 5 years just to get new lower paid people in? What gain is that for you to give them that power? It would be fine if everyone were honest but we don't live in that world. It will come down to favoritism at some point and you may not be in the favorable end of it.

I've been working in Texas since 1979. Things aren't as free for all as one might think in right to work states. There are other laws in place which protect workers and people also have legal recourse if they are fired unfairly. Employers get sued all the time. I've got a buddy who is an attorney and he is always busy with these kinds of cases.

Today, corporations are truly interested in keeping their work force happy. They know that a "gruntled" employee is much more productive than a disgruntled employee. Many actively work towards employee satisfaction. I worked for Xerox for many years and employee satisfaction was part of a manager's performance appraisal. If they got low marks in employee satisfaction, no raise. I currently work at Texas Tech University. We have a staff senate that represents us to the chancellor's office and a campus ombudsman who mediates problems between management and workers. We don't have a union, but we are still represented.

I guess where I'm going with this is that this not the end of the industrial revolution where workers were only hired for their muscles and abuses were rampant. Hiring and training good people is expensive. It is in the companies own best interest to retain good workers. They aren't going to do that by mistreating them.

 

[WB9YZU]

Colorado is a "right to work" state. That means your employer can fire you because your hair isn't purple on Tuesday. It means that to keep your job, you have to work, and can't hide behind the union. I've never had a problem.

You're describing "At Will" employment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment). WI is an At Will State, but not a "Right to Work" State. You can fire anyone for any reason. By the same token, I can just walk away from a job if I don't like it. There is no contract.

In WI if I join a Union shop, currently I must join the Union. In CO you won't have to if you don't want to.

 

[Jeepman401]

I guess where I'm going with this is that this not the end of the industrial revolution where workers were only hired for their muscles and abuses were rampant. Hiring and training good people is expensive. It is in the companies own best interest to retain good workers. They aren't going to do that by mistreating them.

It depends on the location and industry. A few years ago I was working at a ford dealership, and in 6 months time, we went from paying $36 a week for insurance, to paying $114 a week for lesser insurance when the dealership got sold. The new owners hired 3 new guys in the shop, and cut back everyone's hours that was already working there. I personally went from being able to pull in 60-70 hours flat rate on an average week, to having to struggle to make 40 most weeks, because there wasn't enough work to go around. When I sat down with the service manager and the owner, and politely explained the issue, they told me that they had people coming to them every day looking for jobs, and they could replace me at any time, so I could deal with it, or leave. In that case, a union would have been helpful.
On the other hand, A few of my friends work at a beer warehouse, and are union. They have one guy who works with them that just simply doesn't do his job. He slacks off, takes naps on the shitter, and everyone else has to pick up his slack. But because he has been there for longer than most other people, the union is protecting his job. That just isn't right, but its the way unions operate in most places.

 

[Jeepman401]

I guess where I'm going with this is that this not the end of the industrial revolution where workers were only hired for their muscles and abuses were rampant. Hiring and training good people is expensive. It is in the companies own best interest to retain good workers. They aren't going to do that by mistreating them.

It depends on the location and industry. A few years ago I was working at a ford dealership, and in 6 months time, we went from paying $36 a week for insurance, to paying $114 a week for lesser insurance when the dealership got sold. The new owners hired 3 new guys in the shop, and cut back everyone's hours that was already working there. I personally went from being able to pull in 60-70 hours flat rate on an average week, to having to struggle to make 40 most weeks, because there wasn't enough work to go around. When I sat down with the service manager and the owner, and politely explained the issue, they told me that they had people coming to them every day looking for jobs, and they could replace me at any time, so I could deal with it, or leave. In that case, a union would have been helpful.
On the other hand, A few of my friends work at a beer warehouse, and are union. They have one guy who works with them that just simply doesn't do his job. He slacks off, takes naps on the shitter, and everyone else has to pick up his slack. But because he has been there for longer than most other people, the union is protecting his job. That just isn't right, but its the way unions operate in most places.

 

[Ralph]

It depends on the location and industry. A few years ago I was working at a ford dealership, and in 6 months time, we went from paying $36 a week for insurance, to paying $114 a week for lesser insurance when the dealership got sold. The new owners hired 3 new guys in the shop, and cut back everyone's hours that was already working there. I personally went from being able to pull in 60-70 hours flat rate on an average week, to having to struggle to make 40 most weeks, because there wasn't enough work to go around. When I sat down with the service manager and the owner, and politely explained the issue, they told me that they had people coming to them every day looking for jobs, and they could replace me at any time, so I could deal with it, or leave. In that case, a union would have been helpful.
On the other hand, A few of my friends work at a beer warehouse, and are union. They have one guy who works with them that just simply doesn't do his job. He slacks off, takes naps on the shitter, and everyone else has to pick up his slack. But because he has been there for longer than most other people, the union is protecting his job. That just isn't right, but its the way unions operate in most places.

I guess that just goes to show that no solution is perfect for everyone all the time. Considering what you were going through at that dealership, it doesn't sound like a place where I would want to work. I take it you are no longer working there. It also sounds like the business was being mismanaged. Are they still in business?

 

[XJEEPER]

I live in a right to work state and never have had a problem finding or keeping a job.


Unions are at the core, organizations of communities of tradesman. They were created to protect the workers from exploitation by oppressive and exploitive employers.
Unions quickly evolved into political machines that have been using their organizational power to influence elections for nearly a century. They keep folks in power who support their agendas and increase their power.

Community organization......now why does that ring a bell?

Union Boss Trumka Admits Main Goal is Using Unions To Fundamentally Change America into His Progressive Vision not Negotiate Members Salaries
http://www.blip.tv/file/4520201?file... egoti875.m4v#

AFL-CIO President Trumka - 2010 Election Results and Labor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pejpgVJJbgo&feature=player_embedded

AFL-CIO Union received awards in December 2010 from the Communist Party USA, Union President Richard Trumka openly admits that he meets weekly with Obama and members of his Administration.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4NrT2oTQqE&feature=player_embedded

Does the fact that the AFL-CIO President is openly collaborating with both the Communist Party USA and President Obama say anything about where our Republic is headed?