I need design advice! *long* :mad:

[JeepFreak21]

I'm tryin' to get these friggin' long arms done and I'm at the point where I'm too frustrated to think clearly. After some advice from ppl on this (and another) board, I decided to try to avoid cutting off the cast spring perch.
I have the tubing, and I have 2 RE joints for the chassis side. I also have (4) 3" wide poly bushings that I was going to use on the axle side. I see now that they're less than ideal for the top mounts. So... I'm thinking I'll run them on the bottom and becase of extremely limited space on the driver's side, I'm about ready to go out and buy 2 hiems, tube adapters, jam nuts, misalignment washers, etc to make the passenger side upper part out of; then just run one upper on the passenger side (like JnJ).
I really don't wanna drop the cash to do both sides with hiems (which, I think, would be all I have room for on the driver's side), but I may try that if one upper behaves badly.
What would you do?
(The "bumpstops" are in the place where the springs need to go.)

Thanks!
Billy

 

[csudman]

Obviously this is not to scale. But It should get you back on course. The further in (closer to the center of the axle) you make your uppers the more bind will occur. But thats more work for the trackbar to do.

With all that said. I don't think you even need to triangulate your uppers. W/ the track bar. Trianglulation isn't nessisary. Just run the uppers directly over the loweres. Make one simple braket for each side and go w/ it.

Hope Ive helped some.

 

[JeepFreak21]

Obviously this is not to scale. But It should get you back on course. The further in (closer to the center of the axle) you make your uppers the more bind will occur. But thats more work for the trackbar to do.

With all that said. I don't think you even need to triangulate your uppers. W/ the track bar. Trianglulation isn't nessisary. Just run the uppers directly over the loweres. Make one simple braket for each side and go w/ it.

Hope Ive helped some.

Thanks a lot! Every bit of insight is a little boost of confidence!
Billy

 

[CRASH]

Have you thought about where the LCA's are going to cross under the frame? Is it going to contact the frame under compression? The farther out the arms are located on the axle, the more likely they will contact the frame.

If this is not a problem, due to enough uptravel as a result of your lift height, you could get away with putting the LCA's where the vestiges of that existing Ford bracket are on the tube.

I can't remember what you told me teh other night, are you running an RE radius arm style system (similar to Brian), or a true 4 link?

CRASH

 

[JeepFreak21]

Have you thought about where the LCA's are going to cross under the frame? Is it going to contact the frame under compression? The farther out the arms are located on the axle, the more likely they will contact the frame.

If this is not a problem, due to enough uptravel as a result of your lift height, you could get away with putting the LCA's where the vestiges of that existing Ford bracket are on the tube.

I can't remember what you told me teh other night, are you running an RE radius arm style system (similar to Brian), or a true 4 link?

CRASH

The lowers will be fine right under the spring, but I can't get away with running them out any further. And I'm planning a RE style radius arm.

 

[CRASH]

The lowers will be fine right under the spring, but I can't get away with running them out any further. And I'm planning a RE style radius arm.

It might be time to think out of the box.

Have you thought of doing a rover type of linkage, with one rubber bushing in front of the axle tube and one behind, with a tube joining the two running over the top?

The problem with doing an RE styleis your wide seperation in the horizontal plane between the lowers and the uppers. This is going to cause a bunch of bushing problems as they deflect under articulation.

Mine get hosed once or twice a season, and they are operating under the designed conditions.

CRASH

 

[JeepFreak21]

It might be time to think out of the box.

Have you thought of doing a rover type of linkage, with one rubber bushing in front of the axle tube and one behind, with a tube joining the two running over the top?

CRASH

Honestly, I've never seen anything like that... you don't have any pics do you?

 

[CRASH]

Honestly, I've never seen anything like that... you don't have any pics do you?

It's a radius arm design utilizing two bushings instead of a "C" bushing like a Ford OEM design.

No pics, but you may try POR. I think there is a Rover forum over their, no?

A rover works like this, with the main arm underneath:

..O
0__0___________

The upper "O" being ther axle tube, and the lower "0" being bushings. Move the arm to the top, and you get much better clearance, Clarence. The springs reside in "cups" that are welded to the top of the control arm, much like a Ford design.

Something like:

0--0-----------------
..O
Edit: I had to add periods to get the text to format correctly.

CRASH

 

[Beezil]

I must start off by saying, that I've never rn a g-waggy axle before.........

and maybe the reason no one is spotted this yet, is because it isn't a problem, and I need to STFU but.....

the way csud man has the LCA locations drawn, sure makes it look to me as though those locations are gonna cause some tire-rubbage on the lca's at full lock......

how do you guys see it?

 

[Beezil]

heres the reason it came to mind

i positioned my LCAs in relation to the coils INSIDE so my tires didn't rub....

I had PLENTY of room.

This was a long time ago, but I remember not having room had I lined them up with the coils, and certainly not OUTSIDE the coils.....

 

[JeepFreak21]

heres the reason it came to mind

i positioned my LCAs in relation to the coils INSIDE so my tires didn't rub....

I had PLENTY of room.

This was a long time ago, but I remember not having room had I lined them up with the coils, and certainly not OUTSIDE the coils.....

Yeah, I think I'll run into that problem if I go outside the coils too far, but not right under the spring. The tire is spaced out enough passed the knuckle, especially with a 3" BS rim.

 

[JeepFreak21]

It's a radius arm design utilizing two bushings instead of a "C" bushing like a Ford OEM design.

No pics, but you may try POR. I think there is a Rover forum over their, no?

A rover works like this, with the main arm underneath:

..O
0__0___________

The upper "O" being ther axle tube, and the lower "0" being bushings. Move the arm to the top, and you get much better clearance, Clarence. The springs reside in "cups" that are welded to the top of the control arm, much like a Ford design.

Something like:

0--0-----------------
..O
Edit: I had to add periods to get the text to format correctly.

CRASH

Hmmm, that really intrigues me, I'm going to look into that Crash. Anybody else have an opinion on this design?

 

[Safari Ary]

Billy, I looked into this design extensively about 6 months ago I guess. It is a very viable option. The problems I came to were the actual fabrication of the arm(s) itself, whether to run two identical arms or just one radius arm and one regular LCA, How to make the caster adjustable without having to deal with offset bushings(how the rover guys do it predominantly). BTW, this setup is also used on Land Cruisers of the FJ80 variety(93-98 I believe). You might also consider running two identical arms and then "wristing" one of them. Also, you can decide whether or not you want to build "bridges" over the arms for the coils to sit on, or if you want to mount them adajcent to the arms. Do a search for rover radius arms, here and on POR and also maybe my user name(Ary'01xj previously on here and Arya Ebrahimi on POR). HTH

Ary

 

[Beezil]

the ary guy on por is a real asshat.

:laugh3:

 

[JnJ]

I must start off by saying, that I've never rn a g-waggy axle before.........

and maybe the reason no one is spotted this yet, is because it isn't a problem, and I need to STFU but.....

the way csud man has the LCA locations drawn, sure makes it look to me as though those locations are gonna cause some tire-rubbage on the lca's at full lock......

how do you guys see it?

I'm not sure of his excact measurements, but I put my LCA mounts right under the coil, with 3.5" BS and 35s I had a little rubbing on the lca until I adjusted the stopper out a little.

 

[csudman]

the way csud man has the LCA locations drawn, sure makes it look to me as though those locations are gonna cause some tire-rubbage on the lca's at full lock......

how do you guys see it?

Ok, I understand what you are saying, I also wrote. That this wasn't to scale and it was just an idea to get him back on track. I assumed that he would deal w/ placement issues himself beacuse that varies for every single xj. Depending on what wheel backspacing he has will greatly affect the tires rubbing at full lock. And I agree w. normal backspaced wheels that this might ne a problem. But whatever.

I also said that he should ditch the entire setup and do the radius style arm like beezil's.

Good luck man. I hope you get it worked out.

CJ

 

[vintagespeed]

Nice to see you've learned how to lay a bead.........

-jb

heres the reason it came to mind

 

[4ward]

Nice to see you've learned how to lay a bead.........

-jb

Nice to know that axle has been gone from his jeep for 6 months

 

[Gary E]

With all that said. I don't think you even need to triangulate your uppers. W/ the track bar. Trianglulation isn't nessisary. Just run the uppers directly over the loweres. Make one simple braket for each side and go w/ it.

Hope Ive helped some.

The triangulation will do nothing on a radius arm setup, it will only keep the axle from rotating.

Billy, I think in your case I would just run one upper on the pass side. I would also be tempted to just run poly bushings on it also, since thats what you have, I am still not a big fan of heims though. One of Zions UCAs broke on the con, it was a rustys upper set up like a RE longarm. It broke on the the trail so he took it off and drove it home that way, and I think he said it drove the same (you might pm him) and that was with rubber bushings.

I would put the driver lower as close the the center section as possible and match that distance on the other side. I would also make them level with the tube so the lowers did not hang below the tube.

 

[vintagespeed]

Nice to know that axle has been gone from his jeep for 6 months

Well I meant since that pic was taken...... :wave1: