I need a tow rig bad.

[GoSlowGetStuck]

Find yourself a 1994-1997 F250-F350 7.3 OBS (old body style) Powerstroke.
You can find a nice one for $7-9k, gets pretty decent mileage, good aftermarket, sounds/looks mean, built like a freakin tank.

^^ This. I sometimes question why I bought my 2001 7.3 instead of one of the OBS trucks for half the price. IMO it's the best value (performance for price) you can get on a diesel truck.

96JeepSpeed, it sounds like you've got some grades to contend with so I'd definitely be thinking diesel or big block gas. Which means you're looking at a 3/4+ ton. Also since you mentioned a first gen Cummins I imagine you either are all about the simplicity of the thing or you are looking for a cheaper vehicle. Still I'd have to recommend a mid-90s turbodiesel of some kind. Again I think Ford has the hot ticket for somebody on a budget. The older Cummins are overpriced IMO, based on most I have seen for sale. And a Chevy 6.5 will be a bit of a dog (not to mention some infamous issues) but you can probably find one cheaper than a Ford or Dodge. But, depending on how long your trips are, breaking down on the side of the road may be a huge deal to you. Keep in mind that you will be buying an older vehicle, look it over carefully and don't assume the previous owner kept up on maintenance. It could save you a ton of headache down the road!

As for daily driving, my Ford isn't fantastic, but it's definitely livable. Nicer than a lot of the cars I've had, it just rides a bit rough. Parking sucks for the first couple weeks, but you figure it out pretty quick.

 

[POSJ]

I don't know how many times we have to cover the 1/2 vs a real tow rig issue...It's ridiculous, if you plan on towing a vehicle on a trailer and have a CGVW over 10,000# you should just do the right thing and get a truck designed to do it. I wont drive anything besides a diesel, but if it isn't for you get a gasser.

I DD a 1-ton in Tucson, AZ. I drive to work and drive everyday for errands, it isn't bad at all...

 

[DoctorPhate]

Ok but what you're forgetting is that for me(and most others) an F150 is a better solution because we dont have to tow our rig every single weekend and therefore dont want to sacrifice so much time, money and sanity DDing a 1ton Diesel around.

I've towed my XJ twice, once with a Diesel Dually and the other with my dads F150, considering my Jeep Fully loaded 4500 lbs and the trailer is about 2000lbs that puts the combo at 6500lbs, well under the F150s towing capacity and it towed it great. I would go as far as to say I didnt see much of a difference between the F150 and the Dually except that the dually did better in hills but only marginally. Obviously if my XJ weighed 6500lbs instead of 4500lbs the F150 would have struggled and the Dually pushed ahead in the comparison.

However it didnt, the fact remains that the F150 is more than capable of towing an XJ on a trailer fully loaded and you dont have to try and merge in rush hour traffic with a blind spot the size of a US state.

 

[GoSlowGetStuck]

an F150 is a better solution because we dont have to tow our rig every single weekend and therefore dont want to sacrifice so much time, money and sanity DDing a 1ton Diesel around.

I agree, a long bed dually would be a pain to drive around town. But compare (for instance) a crew cab, short bed F-150 and a CCSB F-250. One is 79" wide, the other is 80". One is 224" long, the other is 240". Stepping up to a 3/4+ ton truck is not really any more inconvenient than a 1/2 ton. Not sure what pickups you've been driving that have huge blind spots. The pillars in my Tahoe were enormous compared to my F250, and the huge rear glass and convex tow mirrors you find on the bigger trucks make parking a pretty easy job.

Bottom line though:

Driving ANY fullsize pickup in a CITY sucks.

And assuming you have the parking space, you can always buy a cheaper tow rig and spend $1000 on a crappy econobox, too.

 

[DoctorPhate]

Agreed GoSlow, there isn't much of a difference between a 150 and 250 in size so that I can see, but a full 1ton diesel dually would be a huge pain in the ass.

I never drove an F250 but I did sit in one in the show room when my dad bought his F150. Even the sales guy said "For the boat you're hauling and your sons jeep on a trailer, this truck may be overkill, especially since you said you commute in traffic every day" thats why he settled on the F150.

F250 probably tows a little better but when anything you're hauling is under 8000lbs i think you're perfectly fine driving the F150.

This is all assuming you have the trailer sway control and the trailer brakes required. If not then you're going to be having a real tough time with the F150.

Those mirrors are extremely helpful, maybe its the way I sit in trucks and cars but when I sit and i turn my head left to look in my blind spot all i can see is the door pillar, I have to actually shift my body to look out the crew cab window to check my blind spot usually.

I think its the length of my legs, I'm 6'2 but freakishly long legs lol

 

[RCman]

Agreed GoSlow, there isn't much of a difference between a 150 and 250 in size so that I can see, but a full 1ton diesel dually would be a huge pain in the ass.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see were anyone was arguing you needed a dually to tow a Jeep. The discussion was aimed at 1/2 vs 3/4 or maybe 1 ton SRW.

There is no doubt a 3/4 is leaps and bounds better than the 1/2 ton for everything (weight, hauling, towing, etc) expect maybe ride quality if you use it like a car.
Setup the same weight with the same trailer and brake controller the 3/4 ton will stop faster. To take your F150 and F250 into comparison, look at the 60mph-0mph stopping distances. (Taken from PickupTruck.com tests)

Unloaded F150 CCSB Gas - 166.45ft
Unloaded F250 CCSB Gas - 145.33ft
Unloaded F250 CCSB Diesel - 148.80ft

That's a huge difference unloaded, now just think about what would happen with a load!

 

[DoctorPhate]

The point is for a DD/tow rig, the F150 makes more sense unless we are towing our rig every weekend which I would venture to guess most arent.

As for the Diesel, POSJ was making the case for that one. Or thats what I interpreted his posts as.

 

[RCman]

The point is for a DD/tow rig

Exactly.
Which is why I have unloaded stopping figures above. For a DD, which you are more likely to have to jump on your brakes in traffic, the F250 stops in shorter distance.

the F150 makes more sense unless we are towing our rig every weekend which I would venture to guess most arent.

Every weekend or not, the fact is towing with a 3/4 or 1 ton is safer than towing with a 1/2ton.
I understand not everyone wants a big truck, that's fine. For those of us that want to be safer and more comfortable without being anywhere near the tow limits we get bigger trucks. Heck there are people that tow Jeeps with essentially a 1/4ton platform. Would I and feel comfortable doing so? No way. Flat towing or little boats is about all those should be doing.

As for the Diesel, POSJ was making the case for that one. Or thats what I interpreted his posts as.

I never argued one way or another on that. Gas or Diesel if you are going to tow anything, a 3/4ton is better than a 1/2ton.

 

[jeepme]

After going through the numbers on this exact topic I chose the F250 Crew Cab diesel. A 3/4 ton truck is better than a 1/2 ton in every way for towing, no matter how many times you tow. Braking is better, cooling system is better, tow capacity (obviously), suspesion, transmission etc. A 3/4 ton truck is designed to tow and carry heavy loads period. As far as DD duty's they do that too, and very well. My wife DD drives the F250 to work and back everyday................yes my WIFE.

IMO if you are going to drop thousands of dollars in a vehicle why not get something thats a little overbiult to do the job that much easier. The drive train will be a lot happier, which constitutes to longer life and less maintanance.

 

[jonzer12]

It all depends on the scenario. I used to own a F-150 with 5.4, 3.73 gears, brake controller etc. I have pulled a 7k travel trailler (about the same wieght as my XJ would be on a car hauler) accross flat michigan (south of me) and it did it no sweat cruising at 70mph. Going hunting north of me is through the Candian shield (miles upon miles of hills and valleys). Exact same setup sucked, couldn't maintain 40mph on some of the notorious hills. Did it later with a F-250 diesel and it was night and day. Barely felt the trailer.

Modern 1/2 tons are really getting up there in towing capactiy but if your sole purpose in buying a truck is to pull
another rig on a trailer 3/4 ton is where its at.

 

[Phil]

Is a modern 3/4 ton a better tow rig than a modern 1/2 ton? Of course.

Is a 15-20 year old 3/4 ton a better tow rig than a modern 1/2 ton? Who knows? I bet GCWRs are similar. I bet my 2009 Ram 1500 is going to be a lot more comfortable day to day than a 15-20 year old 3/4 ton.

Will a modern 1/2 ton truck be safe towing a single Jeep on a flat deck trailer? My opinion is yes. And I'm going to do exactly that tomorrow so watch out!

I have the 5.7 Hemi, 3.92 gears, class IV hitch, and it's been great, even towing Goatman's buggy on 40s to Donner Ski Ranch.

 

[DoctorPhate]

Exactly.
Which is why I have unloaded stopping figures above. For a DD, which you are more likely to have to jump on your brakes in traffic, the F250 stops in shorter distance.
Every weekend or not, the fact is towing with a 3/4 or 1 ton is safer than towing with a 1/2ton.
I understand not everyone wants a big truck, that's fine. For those of us that want to be safer and more comfortable without being anywhere near the tow limits we get bigger trucks. Heck there are people that tow Jeeps with essentially a 1/4ton platform. Would I and feel comfortable doing so? No way. Flat towing or little boats is about all those should be doing.
I never argued one way or another on that. Gas or Diesel if you are going to tow anything, a 3/4ton is better than a 1/2ton.

Stopping distance being different by 20 feet wont make a difference unless you're one of those guys that drives on the on ramp until the very last second only to ram on your brakes and cut everyone off so you dont hit the wall. If you drive like a sane person then 20 feet difference 100-0km/h isn't going to help at all if some kid rips in front of you with his honda civic.

I'm fine with driving trucks, I've always driven large vehicles because quite frankly I dont fit in smaller vehicles. However there's more to visibility and maneuverability in traffic than the vehicle length. Height, shape, cab length, cab style, etc all make a difference.

Lets be clear here, I'm not saying a 1996 F150 should be towing an XJ on a trailer. I'm saying my dads 2010 F150 with trailer sway control and trailer brakes towed my XJ absolutely fine. Yes it was annoying in the hills(Canadian shield aka Ottawa Valley) but considering my idea of annoying is that the truck dropped from 120km/h down to 100km/h on those hills I'd say thats just me being too testy about it. And since when is 6500lbs CLOSE to 10 000lbs?

Flat towing little boats? Have you driven the new F150s? A guy I know towed 25 000lbs on his F150 for the tractor pull test. I wouldn't even THINK about doing that but clearly the vehicle is capable.

I've noticed that manufacturers have these tow ratings that say what a vehicle can do safely, and they tend to be pretty spot on. If the manufacturer says its fine, and the government says that amount is legal, you're fine.

Its up to you guys if you want to pay 10 000$ more for something bigger and more annoying to drive just so you have the extra confidence and bragging rights that comes with an F250 over the F150 but for me, my dad, and several others in this thread the new F150s do fine.

I'd even venture to say the Ram 1500 that another gentleman in this thread said he'd be using will also be fine.

Its all personal preference in the end, the only real rule of thumb is what the vehicle tow rating is, anyone over that number is breaking the law, atleast here in Ontario anyway.

 

[POSJ]

Stopping distance being different by 20 feet wont make a difference unless you're one of those guys that drives on the on ramp until the very last second only to ram on your brakes and cut everyone off so you dont hit the wall. If you drive like a sane person then 20 feet difference 100-0km/h isn't going to help at all if some kid rips in front of you with his honda civic.

20' is a huge difference, 1" can be the difference between life and death. It isn't always about the driver and occupants, it might be about a pedestrian or a car with an elderly driver that didn't mean to enter an intersection.

Lets be clear here, I'm not saying a 1996 F150 should be towing an XJ on a trailer. I'm saying my dads 2010 F150 with trailer sway control and trailer brakes towed my XJ absolutely fine. Yes it was annoying in the hills(Canadian shield aka Ottawa Valley) but considering my idea of annoying is that the truck dropped from 120km/h down to 100km/h on those hills I'd say thats just me being too testy about it.

I'm sure your Daddy's truck did it just fine too, but I would never do it. I don't remember where I saw the thread but it was of a newer F-150 towing a CUCV that had an accident. The OP of that thread said he didn't think it would be a big deal and was trying to be careful the whole time, until the accident. This isn't about what the truck can get moving, it is about what it can stop.

Flat towing little boats? Have you driven the new F150s? A guy I know towed 25 000lbs on his F150 for the tractor pull test. I wouldn't even THINK about doing that but clearly the vehicle is capable.

I'm sure your XJ can get 25,000# moving if you give it enough time...does that make it capable?

Its up to you guys if you want to pay 10 000$ more for something bigger and more annoying to drive just so you have the extra confidence and bragging rights that comes with an F250 over the F150 but for me, my dad, and several others in this thread the new F150s do fine.

I paid less for my 2007 Chevy 3500 than a new barebone F-150...

 

[POSJ]

As for the Diesel, POSJ was making the case for that one. Or thats what I interpreted his posts as.

I never said you had to have a Diesel, I stated that I own one and previously had one. I also stated: "I wont drive anything besides a diesel, but if it isn't for you get a gasser." Nowhere in there stated that you had to get one. Get your facts straight before you dime me out again...

 

[Darky]

IMO, very wrong. Is the rating that high? Sure. Does it mean you should do it? Heck no. Does the factory hitch even support that? I doubt it.
Coming from a 1/2ton to a 3/4ton maybe a HUGE difference. I'll never own another 1/2ton.

The new 2010 F-150s are rated for 10k pounds, from the factory, with factory equipment.
http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/f150/specifications/towing/
Due to liability, the manufacturer will not rate a truck based on what it can handle with aftermarket equipment. They rate what they build the truck to handle. The truck can tow what it's rated to tow. Not all F150s can handle that load, you have to get the proper engine, transmission, wheelbase, drivetrain, equipment, etc.

Stopping distance being different by 20 feet wont make a difference unless you're one of those guys that drives on the on ramp until the very last second only to ram on your brakes and cut everyone off so you dont hit the wall. If you drive like a sane person then 20 feet difference 100-0km/h isn't going to help at all if some kid rips in front of you with his honda civic.

20 feet does make a difference. It's not always about predictable scenarios, sometimes there's emergencies.

 

[GoSlowGetStuck]

The point is for a DD/tow rig, the F150 makes more sense unless we are towing our rig every weekend which I would venture to guess most arent.

At first glance, that makes sense that a lighter duty vehicle is better for occasional towing. But with a 3/4 ton diesel, you are probably getting better mileage unloaded, and as shown, there's not much difference in dimensions. Yes, it does feel like a bigger truck, and may be less convenient for cornering and parking, but after a few weeks it isn't a big deal. So, other than initial cost, what makes more sense about a 1/2 ton? Especially when talking about a newer (5 years old) 1/2 ton, many of which cost more than my Powerstroke did.

For me, "towing every weekend" means going to an off-road park that is 40 minutes away. That is the trip where I could care less about towing with a 1/2 ton or even driving my Jeep there. It's the less common trips where I'm driving 4-8 hours where I care about the extra capability. It's the emergency lane changes and emergency stops that I worry about, which you are more like to run into on a longer trip. To me, how often you're using towing isn't a good determination of which truck you buy.

DoctorPhate, I know you made the comparison between a 1996 F150 and a 2010 F150. That is a crucial point for the OP of this thread. I get the impression he is looking for a cheaper tow rig, and so he is more likely looking at a 1996 truck than a 2010 truck. So in that case, I have to say absolutely go for the 3/4+ ton. Please just understand that you are fortunate to have a practically brand new truck at your disposal, and when looking at older vehicles things are quite different.

I don't know how many times we have to cover the 1/2 vs a real tow rig issue...It's ridiculous, if you plan on towing a vehicle on a trailer and have a CGVW over 10,000# you should just do the right thing and get a truck designed to do it.

^ This is what it comes down to. For the *majority* of 1/2 ton trucks, if you are an expert at towing and are sure you can handle your truck and trailer in an emergency setting, I guess I can't do anything to stop you. But for a new guy looking for his first tow rig... you can't buy experience, but you can buy good equipment to make it less risky. That was my opinion when I stepped up to a 3/4 ton. I'm still a n00b at towing, so why not eliminate any risk that I can?

 

[ARB-XJ]

i tow almost every single say, either a 6400lb or a 11,000lb trailer, mostly with my E550 which does fine. But on occasion i have towed with other lighter trucks. Even with all the experience i have there is still plenty of situations that make me nervous with a light truck, even construction zones where the road is uneven or ruff can put a serious strain on the truck.

To the OP, the heavier the truck the safer you are going to feel and the more control you are going to have.

 

[DoctorPhate]

DoctorPhate, I know you made the comparison between a 1996 F150 and a 2010 F150. That is a crucial point for the OP of this thread. I get the impression he is looking for a cheaper tow rig, and so he is more likely looking at a 1996 truck than a 2010 truck. So in that case, I have to say absolutely go for the 3/4+ ton. Please just understand that you are fortunate to have a practically brand new truck at your disposal, and when looking at older vehicles things are quite different.

Thats why I made the comparison with specific models so the OP understood that a regular old 1/2 ton from ANY company will not do. The 2010 F150(2004+ i believe) does it but the older ones such as the 1996(as per my example) will not do it safely. At the end of the day the best course of action is to google the truck you're looking at and check its manufacturers towing capacity.

20' is a huge difference, 1" can be the difference between life and death. It isn't always about the driver and occupants, it might be about a pedestrian or a car with an elderly driver that didn't mean to enter an intersection.



I'm sure your Daddy's truck did it just fine too, but I would never do it. I don't remember where I saw the thread but it was of a newer F-150 towing a CUCV that had an accident. The OP of that thread said he didn't think it would be a big deal and was trying to be careful the whole time, until the accident. This isn't about what the truck can get moving, it is about what it can stop.



I'm sure your XJ can get 25,000# moving if you give it enough time...does that make it capable?



I paid less for my 2007 Chevy 3500 than a new barebone F-150...

I'm sorry but since when do old men drive big rigs? if someone rips through a red light REGARDLESS of your stopping ability you will hit him but the only reason YOU in the truck would die is either you werent wearing your seat belt or it was a big rig that ran the light.

Get off your high horse there buddy, my "daddy's" truck did fine and was WELL within its towing capacity.

I'm sure my XJ could get 25 000lbs moving, I'm saying it was a competition tractor pull and the truck pulled it a distance without an issue, again stopping it is why I would never pull anything more than the towing capacity. My Ford Ranger can tow my XJ up a hill easily, as you said stopping it is an issue which is why I would never tow with it.

Congrats you paid less for your truck than an F150.

I'm done this argument because obviously you're incapable of having a discussion based on facts. You try and talk down to me and talk about my "daddy" simply because its the internet, doubt you'd do that in person.

The OP of this thread has seen both sides as well as random ridiculous claims, he can choose for himself.

 

[POSJ]

lol, ok have a nice day...

 

[jeepme]

"I'm done this argument because obviously you're incapable of having a discussion based on facts."

LOL kids these days :bawl: The fact is, a 3/4 ton truck will tow better than a 1/2 ton truck period!!!! Now move on.