hybrid jeep??

[Matthew Currie]

So here's my dumb question of the week: how about a diesel-electric hybrid, like a locomotive? The idea here is that you would have a stationary engine, tuned to produce its best power and economy at a governed speed, driving a generator which provides the power on demand for the electric drive. Electric motors have the advantage of high starting torque and no need for gearing. The diesel generator would always be running, but would consume very little fuel running without a load, and would always be running in its preferred rpm range.

I have no idea whether this would work, but it seems possible that it would, and if so, it would be lighter and less material intensive than a battery-backed hybrid.

Just a thought. One other advantage to this might be that the electronic and electrical technology is less exotic, because the engine is essentially out of the control loop. All it needs is a governor.

 

[casm]

So here's my dumb question of the week: how about a diesel-electric hybrid, like a locomotive?

*Shrug* Don't see why it couldn't work - assuming a catalysed diesel and clean fuel, you could make it run at practically zero emissions since it'd be constantly spinning within a very narrow rev range except for at startup and shutdown.

Just a thought. One other advantage to this might be that the electronic and electrical technology is less exotic, because the engine is essentially out of the control loop. All it needs is a governor.

A governor, and fuel and emissions metering - but yeah, nothing a Renix ECM couldn't handle

 

[Lawn Cher']

CASM nailed it... hybrids are a fraud.

What you are talking about, Mr Currie, is called a series hybrid. The Prius uses a prarallel hybrid system, which is more complicated since you have to nechanically couple both drives to the final output. If you take a diesel series hybrid with regenerative braking capability, you have the best of both worlds.

 

[wacho4]

God, I hope not. Hybrids are the biggest fraud perpetrated on the car-buying public in the last 50 years; they should be looking into getting their diesels onto the market.



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Exactly my opinion. Hybryds may be alright for small cars, but they just don't fit in with the uses of a truck or jeep type vehicle. ex:hauling, towing, offroading. One of the off road mags recently did an article stating this point exactly, but I don't remember which one. Also here's a question: Why did the honda CRX(not that i like, I don't) that was made in the eighties get about the same or better gas mileage than most of these hybrids? and I'm sure it wasn't the only one. While I'm sure Jeep and eveyone else is looking at it, diesel would be a much more enviromental decision. Biodiesel anyone?
Just my 2 cents.
Wouldn't make a bad school project though, go for it if you want to.

 

[wacho4]

: how about a diesel-electric hybrid, like a locomotive? .

I do like the sound of that.

 

[casm]

Also here's a question: Why did the honda CRX(not that i like, I don't) that was made in the eighties get about the same or better gas mileage than most of these hybrids?

Light weight, decent aerodynamics, and an efficient engine. This is the same formula that Loremo is following with their 182mpg turbodiesel vehicle.

and I'm sure it wasn't the only one.

About a year ago I sold my 1977 Renault LeCar. It routinely returned 40mpg despite my heavy right food and its godawful 1970s-era emissions system. I'm pretty sure I could've had it averaging closer to 50-55mpg had I been allowed to remove all that crap - but the point is that cars (particularly in the economy class) have become heavier, partly to meet consumer demand for better-equipped vehicles, but also partly due to safety regulations dicatating different construction techniques.

While I'm sure Jeep and eveyone else is looking at it, diesel would be a much more enviromental decision. Biodiesel anyone?

The current CRD engine in the KJs leaves the factory with B5 in the tank, and I've heard that people have tested them at up to B100 with no evil effects - of course, this is very informal, short-term testing so should be taken with a grain or six of salt.

Interestingly, the Mercedes Bluetec diesels coming on the market later this year (and apparently slated to make it in to the WK) are rumoured to be B100-capable as well. Should make for a good kickstart for wide supply of biodiesel to build demand.

 

[wraithblade]

Honestly, I find the electric hybrid tech to be fairly unexciting (for all the reasons stated earlier in this thread). However, I find the steam and hydraulic hybrid technologies that have been talked about for the last couple years alot more exciting. The steam hybrid technology is able to turn some of the wasted heat in the exhaust into useable mechanical energy.
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/automotivetech/163cf51b6fd89010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html
I'm even more interested in the hydraulic hybrid tech. It looks like it could be made to be very durable, while offering a decent boost in efficiency.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051218/AUTO01/512180348/1148

 

[87manche]

So here's my dumb question of the week: how about a diesel-electric hybrid, like a locomotive? The idea here is that you would have a stationary engine, tuned to produce its best power and economy at a governed speed, driving a generator which provides the power on demand for the electric drive. Electric motors have the advantage of high starting torque and no need for gearing. The diesel generator would always be running, but would consume very little fuel running without a load, and would always be running in its preferred rpm range.

I have no idea whether this would work, but it seems possible that it would, and if so, it would be lighter and less material intensive than a battery-backed hybrid.

Just a thought. One other advantage to this might be that the electronic and electrical technology is less exotic, because the engine is essentially out of the control loop. All it needs is a governor.

Brilliant. and since you're highest electrical loads would be at low speeds you could supplement the Diesel with a few capacitors, they never wear out. if you wanted to be really high tech you could design a boxer engine for the Diesel, it would be super smooth. I like this, imagine having maximum torque available at the slowest speeds, someone needs to put this in a rock crawler. You could do "portal" axles with the electric motors mounted at all four wheels.

 

[gtpolkus]

Hybrids are great if you can control the weight. I was doing research for a hybrid off road vehicle for TACOM (army) as a project at school. The design criteria for the army was crazy. Run silently for half an hour, climb a 60% grade, cross a 40" gap, climb a 30" obstruction, and carry half of it's weight in payload. We determined it was physically impossible with given technology; power densities of current sources are too low. The contract was for $900,000. You'll eat through a budget like that in no time with a project like what you're talking about

Fuel cells are not cost effective, batteries are heavy, computer controls are heavy and highly complex. Sure you can say you are going to put an electric motor into a jeep. now control it. Diesel will be the way to go, but put a high density electric generator on it and you essentially have two motors and only one does the work. Good bye payload

Your best bet is buy a prius/civic/ford escape/ (fill in blank of other hybrid) and swap the powertrain in. The controls are taken care of and you could still make an extremely offroadable vehicle....for a fraction of the cost. It would be reliable as well!! Try to use the 100% torque at 1RPM of a DC motor to your advantage as well....you'd be surprised at what you'd be able to crawl over

 

[Flip94ta]

I ditto the diesel coment, I think its the future.

Checkout the car and driver article on good mpg suv's they did last year. I think they did a 4 cyl RAV4, a diesel YJ, escape hybrid and I cant remember the other. The Liberty turned in around 23.5mpg if I remember right. The rav four was about the same but cant tow 5000lbs with a chump 4 cyl. The real winner was the ford, something like 31 city 26 hwy.

If you were to hybrid a cherokee I would think that you would use a 4 cyl to start, it has less weight and more room under the hood to work with. The current industry trend is to offer 4cyl/hybrid that has 6 cyl power.

I think the comment above about the I-6 being a gas hog is incorrect, I just filled up an hour ago, 20.5 mpg. Last tank was 20 mpg also. Show me a 4wd vehicle that can tow 5000lbs and has a tranfer case with a low range and gets 20 mpg. My cherokee has the AW4, 3.55 gears, 235/75/15 tires, I drive 70% highway at 75 mph. The only thing that compares is a CRD liberty. I wish they would add another cyl to the four and put it in the grand cherokee. Think 200hp and 375ftlbs. 20+mpg, 6500lb tow rating.

 

[casm]

best way yet ive seen to improve mpg haha... cant wait till they come out with a kit for this one

But not range, and then there's the whole issue of moving emissions from the tailpipe to the power station smokestack. Electrics are good in principle, but with the technology we've got to power them now not practical until the Mr. Fusion makes it to market.