How to build a bullet proof XJ (more stock less mods)

[stephenspann27]

I've been doing some thinking about where I want to go with my currently stock '87 XJ.
My current thoughts are:

While I might be able to afford/willing to spend the money for a big enough lift to run 33's
and install selectable lockers front and area, I don't think I'm willing to deal with all the breakage that comes from that setup.

When you don't have a lot of cash to carry spare axles, and drive shafts, deal with bent steering components, and all that jazz maybe its best to build a less capable rig, that's still fun, but dead reliable.

I know many of you will ague that "spares" are not expensive when you get them from j-yards etc, however, cost aside, no everyone is capable, or has the desire to perform those kinds of repairs trail side.

For me, and probably everyone else, off roading is about having fun, and with my jeep in stock form, I still manage to have a blast, obstacles are more challenging and require much more skinny pedal/talented driving. Its also nice, that when a jeep is stock, or close to stock, you can really peg the throttle without having to worry about breaking your drive train.

At the same time.. modifying your jeep is fun.. increasing its capabilities is rewarding..

I know this sounds like rambling/disconnected thoughts.

Here are my thoughts on the setup that would give the greatest balance between off road capabilities, DD use/mpg and reliability:

3'' lift
30'' AT tires
Rear LSD (I have a D44)
Full skids
rocker protection
real bumpers front and rear
winch

 

[old_man]

You have a good start with a D44 in the rear. I run a D44 w/Detroit on 35's with a 4.7L stroker. I run stock axles and haven't really had any axle problems (I carry a spare set of stock axles). The problem is with the D30. I broke too many axles to count with a front D30. I would not waste my time polishing a turdy.

I am the king of doing it cheap. I did all the work and took my time looking for deals, but I put a HP44 in the front using the Ford radius arms. The whole thing, including gears, quick lock, spare axles and rims ran me about $1100. I put 1" spacers on the rear to equalize the width a bit and convert to the 5x5.5 bolt pattern. I love the wider and more stable stance. I am a pretty agressive wheeler and don't shy away from hard trails, but I use my head. I have yet to break a front axle.

All in all I couldn't be more pleased with the setup.

 

[tbburg]

Sounds a lot like my DD.
no lift
30" BFG ATs
F & R LSD
Rocker skids

I have 2" springs to put on when I got off my lazy a**.

It's surprisingly capable. Probably not too much use in heavy rocks or deep mud. Works great for everything else.

If you can afford them, Detroit Trutracks are the way to go for a LSD.

 

[jeffhaut]

a locked dif is going to last longer than an LSD if you can stop from spinning and then landing on shit

the less you slip tires the longer stuff lasts. and the clutches inside an LSD get hot and wear out FAST if you have one unloaded and your spinning one side only

 

[tbburg]

That's what I like about the trutracs. No clutches.

 

[FlexdXJ]

Sounds like you have a good idea of what you want. I would at least bump it up to a 31 though. I am going for about the same setup but with a lot more armor since the trees in Indiana are not very forgiving to body panels. I have full skids, rock rails and taillight housings to install then i need bumpers and upper and lower quarter guards.

 

[collkid]

I think you should go with a 31.

Thats where i'm at.

 

[88XJ-AK]

I like my set up, 3.5 Lift with 33's. I had to trim the fenders a little but it was a cheap and easy mod that most can do. I have a welded rear and out climbed a rubicon unlimited last weekend with my set up

 

[stephenspann27]

a locked dif is going to last longer than an LSD if you can stop from spinning and then landing on shit

the less you slip tires the longer stuff lasts. and the clutches inside an LSD get hot and wear out FAST if you have one unloaded and your spinning one side only

I know this used to be true with rear ends built.. maybe before the 90s? There have been major advances in the clutch materials that are used in LSD's. I know wheelin is probably extra hard on stuff.. but.. I have a '95 Z with a 10 bolt, it has 220k miles on it, the LSD still works like new... and I use it REALLY often..

I'm not pulling this outa my butt.. I read an article.. or saw something on tv about LSD's life..

 

[stephenspann27]

Sounds like you have a good idea of what you want. I would at least bump it up to a 31 though. I am going for about the same setup but with a lot more armor since the trees in Indiana are not very forgiving to body panels. I have full skids, rock rails and taillight housings to install then i need bumpers and upper and lower quarter guards.

I've actually considered staying with my 235 75's. I drive it on the street 95% of the time.. and I really like the acceleration it has with the stock size tires. I've read comments from guys that went up to 31's and really lost some peppyness. I don't want to re-gear either..

 

[bcmaxx]

I like my set up, 3.5 Lift with 33's. I had to trim the fenders a little but it was a cheap and easy mod that most can do. I have a welded rear and out climbed a rubicon unlimited last weekend with my set up

Those Jk's dont seem to be properly weight distributed, I have no problem outclimbing a locked jk rubi on 37's with a front locker, rear lsd

 

[tbburg]

I really like the acceleration it has with the stock size tires. I've read comments from guys that went up to 31's and really lost some peppyness. I don't want to re-gear either..

If you're picky about acceleration, you might notice the difference even with the 30s

When I went from the stock tires(225-75-15)to the 30x9.50, I didn't notice a huge difference in acceleration. What I did notice was a diminished ability to hold 4th(OD) going up hill. A lot more hunting between 3rd and 4th: Start to slow down, torque converter unlock, downshift, speed up, upshift, TC lock, slow back down, repeat. 'Really noticeable when cruise control is set.

 

[RedHeep]

While I might be able to afford/willing to spend the money for a big enough lift to run 33's
and install selectable lockers front and area, I don't think I'm willing to deal with all the breakage that comes from that setup.

There's a difference between making a stock jeep unreliable on the trail and building a reliable jeep.

If you're the type of person that wants to run a 33" tire, that doesn't mean you put a lift on, buy the tires and go wheeling. There's obviously limitations to other parts of the drivetrain.

If you're not willing to upgrade the axles, then that setup is going to have breakage at some point. But most folks that head north of a 31" tire are going to have some sort of axle upgrade to keep it all together on the harder trails and obstacles that come with bigger tires.

My '91 has wheeled tellico, moab, flat nasty, and uwharrie with 1 incident (tcase) which was clearly my fault on 33's. I stepped up to an 8.8 in the rear (spool) and still have the D30 in the front with an aussie locker.

You shouldn't say that the jeep isn't reliable because you've upgraded some parts. It wouldn't be reliable because you didn't upgrade the parts you knew you were going to break. I've been everywhere I wanted to go on 33's and then we drove it home 2000 miles from Moab.

Reliable on the trail is on you, not your jeep.

 

[FlexdXJ]

I've actually considered staying with my 235 75's. I drive it on the street 95% of the time.. and I really like the acceleration it has with the stock size tires. I've read comments from guys that went up to 31's and really lost some peppyness. I don't want to re-gear either..

Trust me I have wheeled on 235's a lot on my old Jeep and mostly did fine. That extra inch of clearance you will get will help you out! And truthfully my new Jeep on 31's has more get up and go than my old one on 235's. It sounds strange i know but its not really that noticable. I am gonna step it up to 4.10's eventually but 3.55's on 31's is bearable.

 

[spikyhair87]

There's a difference between making a stock jeep unreliable on the trail and building a reliable jeep.

If you're the type of person that wants to run a 33" tire, that doesn't mean you put a lift on, buy the tires and go wheeling. There's obviously limitations to other parts of the drivetrain.

If you're not willing to upgrade the axles, then that setup is going to have breakage at some point. But most folks that head north of a 31" tire are going to have some sort of axle upgrade to keep it all together on the harder trails and obstacles that come with bigger tires.

My '91 has wheeled tellico, moab, flat nasty, and uwharrie with 1 incident (tcase) which was clearly my fault on 33's. I stepped up to an 8.8 in the rear (spool) and still have the D30 in the front with an aussie locker.

You shouldn't say that the jeep isn't reliable because you've upgraded some parts. It wouldn't be reliable because you didn't upgrade the parts you knew you were going to break. I've been everywhere I wanted to go on 33's and then we drove it home 2000 miles from Moab.

Reliable on the trail is on you, not your jeep.

Well said was thinking the same thing while reading all of the other posts...

TO the O.P. just remember when upgrading in one area you need to upgrade in another...

there is always this teeter totter effect of choosing what do i want to what can i afford etc... what are my limitations(fab. and mechanical wise) to time... etc...

Good luck with your build and remember that a lifted rig on whatever size tire CAN reliable if you upgrade in proportions... bigger tires = axle/ lift upgrades to keep that some reliability..

just my .02..

 

[FlexdXJ]

There's a difference between making a stock jeep unreliable on the trail and building a reliable jeep.

If you're the type of person that wants to run a 33" tire, that doesn't mean you put a lift on, buy the tires and go wheeling. There's obviously limitations to other parts of the drivetrain.

If you're not willing to upgrade the axles, then that setup is going to have breakage at some point. But most folks that head north of a 31" tire are going to have some sort of axle upgrade to keep it all together on the harder trails and obstacles that come with bigger tires.

My '91 has wheeled tellico, moab, flat nasty, and uwharrie with 1 incident (tcase) which was clearly my fault on 33's. I stepped up to an 8.8 in the rear (spool) and still have the D30 in the front with an aussie locker.

You shouldn't say that the jeep isn't reliable because you've upgraded some parts. It wouldn't be reliable because you didn't upgrade the parts you knew you were going to break. I've been everywhere I wanted to go on 33's and then we drove it home 2000 miles from Moab.

Reliable on the trail is on you, not your jeep.

Well said dude! This is the reason I am getting everything upgraded or adding this that will help it make it home in one piece. I plan to drive mine to Moab eventually.

 

[casm]

Here are my thoughts on the setup that would give the greatest balance between off road capabilities, DD use/mpg and reliability:

3'' lift
30'' AT tires
Rear LSD (I have a D44)
Full skids
rocker protection
real bumpers front and rear
winch

This is a pretty solid plan, and is more or less how I ran my XJ after lifting it for a couple of years. As old_man pointed out, you're already quite a bit ahead by having the D44 in the rear - it's stout and there are lots of options for gears, lockers, and brakes down the road.

My recommendation to you would be to skip the rear LSD and set that cash aside for future gears & lockers. Yeah, you'll be wheeling with an open axle in the meantime, but LSDs are only advantageous to a point. Most of them aren't very aggressive, and in the situations where you need more traction you'll likely want more than it can deliver. They're fine for on-pavement and fire trail use, but not much beyond that.

If you're thinking of 30" tyres at 3" of lift, go to 31s. The power & economy loss between 30s and 31s with 3.55 gears (I don't recall seeing your gear ratios, but I'm assuming this is what you have) is basically negligible. Depending on what you're buying, 31s can also work out cheaper in some cases than smaller sizes due to their commonality; it pays to shop around.

If you can find an XJ at the junkyard with the factory gas tank and transfer case skids, that's a quick and cheap route to better protection than nothing at all. I'm still running mine, and they've held up to some surprising whacks. The transfer case skid doesn't provide as much coverage as I'd like, but I've hung up / dropped on it several times without incident. The gas tank skid is pretty stout, but not the last word in them by any means.

Add in some tow hooks at the front and a hitch plus receiver shackle at the rear for recovery points - it's better to be pulling on something attached to the frame rails than not when you get stuck. Again, check the junkyards.

 

[stephenspann27]

Thanks for all the help. I do happen to have a T-case and gas tank skid, that were already on my XJ. I just recently bought a tow hook bracket, and I have a rear hitch. I'm guessing that my lift is about 3'', I'm getting it off my parts jeep.. which doesn't have a motor in it so the front sits really high. The rear sits about 3'' higher than my jeep. I want to keep my stock fender flares... and not have to worry about rubbing.. that's another reason why I don't want to go to 31's..

With my D44.. I could probably install a lunch box locker.. and as long as I didn't act stupid not have any breakage on 30'' AT tires. I"m looking at Kumho Road Venture AT KL78 tires, they are only about $74 a piece.

30X9.5R15 sound ok?

 

[95' heep]

Id also say go with the 31" too. My friend once ran rough country 3" lift kit with BFG A/T in 31x10.50R15 on stock rims and he didnt have ANY rubbing issues except on the lower control arm. that includes the stock flares

I still recommend you to at least have some spare parts for the D30 as it still will breaks even in the most unexpectable condition. I'd hate to see you need to cripple out of a trail and wait for a tow truck when you could've avoided that with a $100 worth of spare parts

 

[stephenspann27]

even if I run the D30 open it will still break?