How bad will the economy get?

[ehall]

then you haven't looked toward Spain in a year...

it's coming...

 

[8Mud]

then you haven't looked toward Spain in a year...

it's coming...

No bought adoubt it. My youngest daughter works at the European Central Bank, she has been getting home late from crises meetings almost daily.

If anything sinks Germany it will be the taxes and fees. Government here isn't going to want to give up any income as long as there is one citizen left capable of paying taxes. Taxed into the poor house.

They want something like $400 a year for dog licenses for my three terriers.

 

[stumpbum21]

Oil? It is so deeply embedded into the world economy that any signifigant interuption in the supply would be catastrophic on a global scale. The optimists say 60 years, the pessimists say 35 years. In either case, without a major technological and infrastructural shift, the way we live life WILL cease to exist. It's currently necessary for the world governments to pour money into the R&D of alternatives to oil. If the great majic carpet of oil is ripped from beneath our collective feet, all of the bailout money in the world won't mean squat. Think "Beyond Thunderdome," assuming anyone is left alive.:us:

 

[IndyXJ]

Okay, lets talk basics and being a auto forum, it will be skewed I'm sure. Who here buys NEW cars at least every 3-4 years? There is a shift away from buying new, at least in my opinion. I've bought 3 new vehicles in my life, 1 an XJ and I'm done buying new. My current one is one of the new ones at about 2.5 years old. The automakers, foreign and domestic will need to lower their targets. The gravy train is, and has been over for a while.
I'm dropping out of the society that thinks you must keep up with the Jones'. I have all I need now and what I don't have, I'll do without, and I'm not just talking about cars.

 

[ehall]

I've never bought a brand new car, and I'm in my early 40s

 

[Stihl029]

Hey here is a good set of pages to check out. I am glad I live near enough game to sustain myself for a while...yes I am more of one of the dooms day ppl.
http://www.alaska4x4network.com/forumdisplay.php?f=79

 

[Ecomike]

The US economy is really resilient, productivity is higher than anywhere else in the world, asset ownership is higher than anywhere else (our "poor" have more property than european middle class), etc. Basically we have the ability to create wealth faster than anybody else, we can grow more than dirt, and we have lots of crap to sell.

I agree, but one issue that concerns me, that I never hear discussed, is something I have seen change radically in my lifetime. That is the way everyone relies so heavily on individual credit scores, including employers when looking to hire some one, or home and auto insurance companies when pricing a quote for home or auto insurance, they all lean heavily on credit scores. And of course banks are going to raise interest rates as everyones credit scores go down the tubes, because of a crisis the banks at least in part created.

12 years ago when my credit score had dropped, I was actually turned down by the three major Homeowner insurance companies in Texas for home owners insurance, on a house I only had 7 years left to pay on, that I was current with the payments on. They said I was too big a risk to sell me homeowners insurance because my credit report indicated to them that I might burn down the house to collect the insurance. :banghead:So I was forced to buy just fire insurance through the mortgage company (called forced insurance) at twice the going rate for the next 7 years, just for fire coverage only. Never was able to get homeowners. I asked them why the hell I would burn down a house I nearly owned. All I ever got was a we are sorry we can't sell you homeowners insurance.

I have run across people with engineering degrees that said they could no longer work in their industry (engineers) because of bad credit reports. I guess all those people with the bad credits reports went to work for the banks and loan sharks.

I added my 18 year old daughter to my car insurance 3 months ago, and State Farm insisted on running a credit check on my daughter to get her "Score" before they would let me add her, or quote me a price! She has never had credit at 18!

Just one of many things that have gotten way out of wack in this country.

 

[Ecomike]

link Overall, the typical American, defined as poor by the government, has a car, air conditioning, a refrigerator, stove, clothes washer and dryer and a microwave. He has two color televisions, cable or satellite TV reception, a VCR or DVD player and a stereo. He is able to obtain medical care. His home is in good repair and is not over-crowded.


Our poor people have bigger homes, more cars, and way more amenities than european middle class. Just a fact. I lived in Norway and Ireland and saw it with my own eyes.

So now you believe what the government says? At least as long as you can selectively quote parts of what it says.

 

[ehall]

it's all about how you feel right mike

 

[Ecomike]

Okay, lets talk basics and being a auto forum, it will be skewed I'm sure. Who here buys NEW cars at least every 3-4 years? There is a shift away from buying new, at least in my opinion. I've bought 3 new vehicles in my life, 1 an XJ and I'm done buying new. My current one is one of the new ones at about 2.5 years old. The automakers, foreign and domestic will need to lower their targets. The gravy train is, and has been over for a while.
I'm dropping out of the society that thinks you must keep up with the Jones'. I have all I need now and what I don't have, I'll do without, and I'm not just talking about cars.

Everyone in my family, other than my kids, would not get caught dead driving anything older than about 4-5 years old.

My first 2 cars were brand new. I was 17 when I bought my brand new Ford Pinto in 1973 for $1995.00. My third car was used, and everyone since then. In fact the newest thing I bought was 1991, in 1999. All my wheels are now Renix XJs.

But on another note, I sent my 18 YO Daughter out Christmas shopping in her 89 XJ, this weekend with several credit cards. Told her to go stimulate the economy, buy something while there is still a store with something in it to buy!! LOL. She came back and said she felt guilty for spending $50! So I had to go out spend some myself.

 

[Ecomike]

it's all about how you feel right mike

Right, I usually feel with my hands, LOL!

I went to Kroger yesterday, and felt like I had won the lottery, with out buying a ticket when I left. I decided to help the economy and buy some DVDs, including the Rock's new movie Gridiron Gang (great movie). It was on sale for 9.99, but it rang up at 19.99, and I caught it. Went to the service desk and requested a refund, or correction......and they gave me the 19.99 back and gave me the movie free too because of their mistake!

Such a deal! made me want to go shop some more!

 

[bjoehandley]

I'll be honest, while I'm worried about how well this Christmas will go for the store I work at, the severe drop in gas prices of late have made my more willing to spend some money on other stuff in the past few weeks.

 

[Ecomike]

I'll be honest, while I'm worried about how well this Christmas will go for the store I work at, the severe drop in gas prices of late have made my more willing to spend some money on other stuff in the past few weeks.

I have been thinking that might happen this Christmas, in fact I have been buying oversold stocks in anticipation of an oversold stock market that is over estimating the Christmas traffic slowdown. In fact I keep hearing about retail sales of guns being absolutely huge right now. Just had the Gun show here in Houston, it was on the TV news again, lots of buyers. Gasoline prices dropping in half, and heating oil and Natural gas dropping in half for winter heating has got to put some money back in peoples pockets, those with jobs that is, and employment is still 93.5%, glass is 93.5% full! Some of that money is bound to get spent and end up under the Christmas tree.

 

[bjoehandley]

I've thought about buying the undersold, GM and Ford in particular (if they look like they may bounce back, which I'm hoping they do.) The station I normally buy at went from $4.17 this summer (which was cheap at the time) and now is $2.13 for regular. I went to Menards and picked up some insulation foam and other stuff to try and build a portable demo R/C crawler display that I can haul between home and work (so it has to be small enough to fit in my XJ with the back seat folded flat and light enough that I can carry it by my self) and I'll bet that what I paid on that was about the difference between what I put in on Thursday at $2.17 and the $4.17 I paid this summer! That said, things are getting kinda slow around here, we have had people in trying to get their shopping started early of late and sometimes sales are better than they could be, but I am a little worried anyway......

I have read that the gun and ammo markets are going crazy right now too. Not too sure what to think of it to be honest. While it's good to see more people who actually recognize the second amendment, but I wonder how many people will actually learn how to properly use what they buy so they don't get themselves, friends, neighbors, or even worse a loved one killed by their own recklessness and shine a bad light on well trained and educated gun owners while giving the anti gun people more "ammunition" of their own to use against that same amendment.

 

[Ecomike]

It has been real hard to find gasoline here any higher than a $1.87 for a good 10 days or so.:sunshine:

 

[ECKSJAY]

It has been real hard to find gasoline here any higher than a $1.87 for a good 10 days or so.:sunshine:

I can't wait for it to go back to $4.50 while everyone is complacent. :roflmao:

 

[Ecomike]

I can't wait for it to go back to $4.50 while everyone is complacent. :roflmao:

That may take some time. Took a little over 20 years last time.

I still remember the mid 80's bumper stickers in Texas:

"God please let there be one more oil boom, and I promise not to piss all away next time"

 

[fscrig75]

I have run across people with engineering degrees that said they could no longer work in their industry (engineers) because of bad credit reports.

I don't agree with running credit checks for hiring people but I do understand why they do that.
Corporate espinage(sp) is pretty bad, and with engineers possibly designing something that could put a competitor out of business, there is possibility that due to their credit situation, they could sell what they created.
In the military its the same way with personel with security clearences. If service members have an overdue bill they get talked to by the units security person, if its not payed in time or they become to delinquent they can get stripped of their clearence.

I still think it all boils down to the individual person being responsible with their money. Just because you have some money doesn't mean you have to go buy something (I'm bad about that haha). Personally I'm tired of seeing news reports about people who can't afford to live in SoCal, just an example, so their homes get repo'd and they move into a parking lot and live out of thier expensive SUVs. Here is an idea move somewhere that you can afford to live, yea the weather is nice in SoCal, but if you can't afford to live there move!

 

[Ecomike]

I don't agree with running credit checks for hiring people but I do understand why they do that.
Corporate espinage(sp) is pretty bad, and with engineers possibly designing something that could put a competitor out of business, there is possibility that due to their credit situation, they could sell what they created.
In the military its the same way with personel with security clearences. If service members have an overdue bill they get talked to by the units security person, if its not payed in time or they become to delinquent they can get stripped of their clearence.

I still think it all boils down to the individual person being responsible with their money. Just because you have some money doesn't mean you have to go buy something (I'm bad about that haha). Personally I'm tired of seeing news reports about people who can't afford to live in SoCal, just an example, so their homes get repo'd and they move into a parking lot and live out of thier expensive SUVs. Here is an idea move somewhere that you can afford to live, yea the weather is nice in SoCal, but if you can't afford to live there move!

While you have a point, moving takes money and credit too, and one may not have the network of friends and family that may have if they stay put.

I was stubborn and stayed put through the 1980s depression in Texas that wiped out most home owners, banks and businesses and even retail malls. Nothing was sacred. Even watch the ex secretary of state and ex Texas governor's (Connelly), stuff get auctioned off on TV one week. My mortgage was upside down for the first 24 of 25 years that I had it. Bought it in 1980, during the peak of inflation in Houston, Tx.

While I understand the security and espionage issues, I also know that the average Joe gets raked over the coals by a divorce and child support, by the time he reaches 40, and custody issues that destroy, ruin or at least temporarily damage ones credit score. Hell just moving or changing jobs damages the credit score.