Hi-Output alternator options 90XJ 4.L

Are there any kind of issues with the stock wiring to worry about with a high anp alternator? What is the highest safe rating to use?

The reason I ask is one type of 4x4 I've owned would have electrical wiring fires if you used anything over stock 63 amp. This is using the stock wiring harness, course. I would hate to swap in a high output alternator and burn up my Jeep because the stock wiring harness couldn't handle it.
 
Do a search here on NAXJA. There was a thread not too long ago about high-amp alternators, and a guy said his local alternator shop told him a higher-amperage unit was available as a factory option for a Dodge Caravan, and it supposedly will bolt right up in an XJ. But the only thing is that I think it was for a 2.5L. Anyway, there are tons of threads to search through, and you'll find some good information.
 
PacificEd said:
Are there any kind of issues with the stock wiring to worry about with a high anp alternator? What is the highest safe rating to use?

The reason I ask is one type of 4x4 I've owned would have electrical wiring fires if you used anything over stock 63 amp. This is using the stock wiring harness, course. I would hate to swap in a high output alternator and burn up my Jeep because the stock wiring harness couldn't handle it.
Click to expand...

The OEM RENIX wiring (1987-1990 gasoline engine) runs a bit short of 80A (74A for the four, 78A for the six, IIRC.) AMC was a bit more generous with wiring than ChryCo - and ChryCo built them to AMC spec until 1991. However, that wiring is probably good for about 100A constant duty. If you go past that (you probably will,) you'll want to upgrade your wiring.

Also note that there is a fusible link in the alternator output lead - and if you go past 100A or so, you will blow that fusible link the first time you swing to full output with your uprated alternator. So, that should be replaced as well.

And, I would definitely recommend replacing the mains anyhow - reports from the field indicate shorter crank times (RENIX won't fire until it reads 300rpm at the CKP - that's the way it's programmed) and grounds are very important (the only chassis ground is by way of that stupid open braid ground strap at the firewall - dumb idea. That gets crudded up, and you get all sorts of trouble.)

A decent rewind shop shouldn't have any trouble taking you to 130-140A max output. If you can't find a local shop, I talked mine into doing mail-order a few years ago, and that's only because I've been dealing with him for about ten years before that (I've not had to buy a part twice from him. I just do a lot of side work, and I use him because his parts are reliable. Click the link in my sig, and scroll down to the San Jose Generator links. Rod's a good guy - his only fault is that he keeps banker's hours...)

Options for junkyard upgrades seem to be a bit limited, unless you're willing to strip down the donor and transplant internals. Easier to just get it rewound at a shop. My thoughts on "big chain" parts are fairly well-known around here, so I shan't go into them again...
 
The Denso alternator in my 96 XJ is rated for 117 SAE amps and a minimum of 90 test amps. The part number on the alt is 56005685.

Another alt in the XJ is the 56005684 that has a rated 81 amps and a min test of 75 amps.

Hope this helps. -B
 
boomhauer said:
The Denso alternator in my 96 XJ is rated for 117 SAE amps and a minimum of 90 test amps. The part number on the alt is 56005685.

Another alt in the XJ is the 56005684 that has a rated 81 amps and a min test of 75 amps.

Hope this helps. -B
Click to expand...

But that's for a Denso - won't work with RENIX.

1984-1986 used an internally-regulated Delco 12SI
1987-1990 used an internally-regulated Delco CS130
1991-2001 used an externally-regulated Nippondenso, with the regulator in the PCM.

If you use an externally-regulated alternator in a 1990 and earlier, you must add a regulator - and there's no guarantee that the alternator will mount up (I think the case is larger on the Denso than either the 12SI or the CS130.) If you try to use an internally-regulated alternator on the 1991-up rigs, you'll get a persistent CEL/MIL because the PCM regulator won't be doing anything, and the PCM will think the regulator is shot.

Also, that "offset mounting ear" kinda gets in the way of using high output Delcos, unless you swap the guts. Most of the higher-output CS130s have mounting ears at 12:00 and 6:00, not at 1:30 and 6:00. However, as long as you get higher-output guts (stator, rotor, diodes, rectifier, regulator...) from a CS130 rated for higher output, you can rebuild yours (that's what most shops do.) The case is the important bit - change it too much, and you won't be able to mount it. This is why the ND alternator typically won't swap with the Delco. CS144 Delco maybe - but not the CS130 (not without some fab work.)

That's the sort of thing that happens when a vehicle line changes hands...
 
5-90 said:
But that's for a Denso - won't work with RENIX.

1984-1986 used an internally-regulated Delco 12SI
1987-1990 used an internally-regulated Delco CS130
1991-2001 used an externally-regulated Nippondenso, with the regulator in the PCM.

If you use an externally-regulated alternator in a 1990 and earlier, you must add a regulator - and there's no guarantee that the alternator will mount up (I think the case is larger on the Denso than either the 12SI or the CS130.) If you try to use an internally-regulated alternator on the 1991-up rigs, you'll get a persistent CEL/MIL because the PCM regulator won't be doing anything, and the PCM will think the regulator is shot.

Also, that "offset mounting ear" kinda gets in the way of using high output Delcos, unless you swap the guts. Most of the higher-output CS130s have mounting ears at 12:00 and 6:00, not at 1:30 and 6:00. However, as long as you get higher-output guts (stator, rotor, diodes, rectifier, regulator...) from a CS130 rated for higher output, you can rebuild yours (that's what most shops do.) The case is the important bit - change it too much, and you won't be able to mount it. This is why the ND alternator typically won't swap with the Delco. CS144 Delco maybe - but not the CS130 (not without some fab work.)

That's the sort of thing that happens when a vehicle line changes hands...
Click to expand...

Good thing you're here 5-90! I'm the original owner of my '96 and have no RENIX knowledge. lol Great info, thanks! -B
 
5-90 said:
And, I would definitely recommend replacing the mains anyhow - reports from the field indicate shorter crank times (RENIX won't fire until it reads 300rpm at the CKP - that's the way it's programmed) and grounds are very important (the only chassis ground is by way of that stupid open braid ground strap at the firewall - dumb idea. That gets crudded up, and you get all sorts of trouble.)
Click to expand...

A friend of mine placed an order for two of the 6 wire battery cable kits that you make. That should bring that end of the system up to par with all new cables and grounds.

Am I understanding you correctly, that there is only the CS-130 87-90 aternator for us to work with? And the Cherokee units only came with one amperage option? These can be rebuilt for higher output or we can find another application that used the CS-130 with more output and swap the guts into the Cherokee case?

Sorry to be redundant here, but I would rather ask twice and do it right once.

Thanks for the help!
 
PacificEd said:
A friend of mine placed an order for two of the 6 wire battery cable kits that you make. That should bring that end of the system up to par with all new cables and grounds.

Am I understanding you correctly, that there is only the CS-130 87-90 aternator for us to work with? And the Cherokee units only came with one amperage option? These can be rebuilt for higher output or we can find another application that used the CS-130 with more output and swap the guts into the Cherokee case?

Sorry to be redundant here, but I would rather ask twice and do it right once.

Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

Give me a bit, and I'll dig out my OEM alternator catalogue. I'll also dig up my Excel sheet to see what other donors are possible. That latter could take a bit tho - I haven't completed the sheet yet, and I know there's info that I have yet to plug in...
 
I'm probably going to end up coding this as a WiP tech page...

XJ/MJ w/126ci Diesel I4:
1985-1987 (60A or 70A Paris-Rhone)

XJ/MJ w/150ci I4:
1984-1986, w/AC (78A, Delco 12SI)
1987-1990, w/AC (74A, Delco CS130)
1991-1998, All (90A Nippondenso)
1999-2000, All (117A Nippondenso)

XJ/MJ w/242ci I6:
1987-1990, Standard (61A Delco CS130)
1987-1990, Optional HD (85A Delco CS130)
1987-1990, Optional HD (100A Delco CS130)
1991-1996, Standard (90A Nippondenso)
1991-1996, Optional HD (120A Nippondenso)
1997-1998, Standard (90A Nippondenso)
1997-1998, Optional HD (120A Nippondenso)
1999-2000, Standard (117A Nippondenso)
2001, Standard (117A Nippondenso)

A very quick shufty at my Excel sheet shows the highest output for a CS130 "off the shelf" at around 105A, in the 1994 Olds 98 Recenty w/231ci V6, the 1994 Pontiac Bonneville with supercharged 231ci V6 (late production) and the 1995 Pontiac Sunfire w/134ci I4.

Aftermarket parts are available to far exceed that, and any CS130 parts should fit neatly into the CS130 case (the CS130D is different, and it superceded the CS130 around 1994-1995.)

I've been meaning to code a chart showing rated outputs and alternator styles (and special notes) for the Tech Archives at WiP anyhow - just haven't had time to work on it of late...

JY donors will take some more digging than I had time to do just now. If you want me to look into that, hit me backchannel and give me a few days...
 
Jon,

You posted exactly what I was looking for. There are three alternators available for my year model of Jeep that would be bolt in units. Now I know what to ask for when I go looking for a replacement.

Thanks again!
 
5-90:what is this alt case bonding cable you are speaking of?Did the renix have one of these cables stock?
You've got me curious because I have been running a 150 amp alt on my renix for a while now with out a "bonding cable" I have however upgraded the battery cables and the ground strap with welding cable.
If I wanted to install a bonding strap How should it be done????

Sorry for the hijack.....
 
Thanks Jon. Questions answered without me asking! Excellent!
 
outlander said:
5-90:what is this alt case bonding cable you are speaking of?Did the renix have one of these cables stock?
You've got me curious because I have been running a 150 amp alt on my renix for a while now with out a "bonding cable" I have however upgraded the battery cables and the ground strap with welding cable.
If I wanted to install a bonding strap How should it be done????

Sorry for the hijack.....
Click to expand...

The "bonding cable" is an auxiliary ground from the back of the alternator case to the battery directly. There is a drilled and tapped boss on the back of the alternator case (accepts an M8-1.25 screw) used to attach the alternator end of the cable, and the other end goes right to the battery negative terminal.

This is recommended if: 1) you have fluctuating alternator output at idle (or at cruise - any steady-state throttle condition) without anything changing but the alternator output, or 2) If you have significantly upgraded (say, past 140A or so. OEM runs 75-80A.)

It is less necessary on later models, as the alternator subharness includes a decent ground that goes either to the alternator case directly or to the alternator mounting screws. It can be done - it would probably go directly to a mounting screw, instead of directly to the case.

If you've upgraded significantly, and you use your full output a lot, I'd consider it "necessary" (a step short of "mandatory".) If you've floating output, just get the thing.

The case ground did not come OEM from the factory.
 
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