Healthcare Reform? They lie so much, they're unable to recognize TRUTH!

[bigalpha]

I can't believe the idea is to force people to have health insurance. What kind of nonsense is it that you'll be fined if you don't secure coverage.

Complete and utter bullshit.

 

[XJEEPER]

I'm find it disturbing that so many of the American voters are ignorant to what is taking place in Washington and more importantly, are afraid to educate themselves and get involved and making their Will known to their elected representives.

The Political Correct movement (Progressives) has stifled people from expressing their thoughts and points-of-view in public settings......don't want anyone to get offended or have hurt their feelings, right?


WRONG!
We don't all have to agree and we should be able to discuss points-of-view, of which we may learn and grow from.

If you fail to educate yourself, if you fail to stand up and declare your beliefs and defend them, you will soon have someone or some party or group saddle you with their beliefs, rules, regulations and laws. Tyranny is one generation away from Freedom.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

 

[Darky]

A good quote I used yesterday to defend aainst a misquoting of Ben Franklin (Any fool can complain....and most do)

“The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.” -Karl Marx

 

[Darky]

What I really have a hard time understanding is how it makes sense to ram rod this thing through, against the wishes of what would seem to be a very large portion of the population, while speaking of bipartisanship and not garnering any votes from the republicans, and then "sell" it to the people. If this is so great and you will be able to sell us on this now that it's passed, why didn't you sell us on it before the vote. It would've made your lives a lot easier and you would've been able to vote with confidence knowing that we all backed you on it.

What's the repeal process for something like this? What's the likelihood that we'll have the votes to repeal it following November? What's the likelihood that Obama's executive order barring fed funds from abortion (y'know, the thing that convinced the fencesitters to vote for it and gave them the votes they needed) won't be revoked as part of the "reconciliation" process? So many questions, none of them ones I like.

 

[kastein]

Kastein, did the representative of your congressional district vote in oposition to the health plan? If they did, where's your beef? That person reprented you.

My representative voted for it. A representative from another district in my state voted against it. Sorry I was confusing.

I can't believe the idea is to force people to have health insurance. What kind of nonsense is it that you'll be fined if you don't secure coverage.

Complete and utter bullshit.

Xamillion.

I hope someone challenges the constitutionality of the fine at the very least. I doubt it'll happen, and it's probably tied in via some other arcane law or something, but I can hope.

 

[RichP]

My representative voted for it. A representative from another district in my state voted against it. Sorry I was confusing.


Xamillion.

I hope someone challenges the constitutionality of the fine at the very least. I doubt it'll happen, and it's probably tied in via some other arcane law or something, but I can hope.

They plan on using the IRS for fine collections, they take it out of your return or they turn it over to a civilian collection agency which is what they do now.

 

[REVROK]

The government just had cash for clunkers which was a program with promises such as the dealer would get paid within 30 days. Simple concept turn in a perfectly good working car and the dealer destroys it so that no parts can be used and based upon the MPG's saved give them a credit.

How did the government do, great, they had no clue of the demand ( $1 Billion bumped up to $ 4 billion -- grossly underestimated). Many dealers waited months for their money and had to hire lawyers to read the paperwork. Many repair shops in the months following had a drop in business and that was bad.

Oh yes for every $2,000 given $24,000 the government spent (92% overhead).

Now think about health care Government style. Great... just great.

 

[Darky]

The government just had cash for clunkers which was a program with promises such as the dealer would get paid within 30 days. Simple concept turn in a perfectly good working car and the dealer destroys it so that no parts can be used and based upon the MPG's saved give them a credit.

How did the government do, great, they had no clue of the demand ( $1 Billion bumped up to $ 4 billion -- grossly underestimated). Many dealers waited months for their money and had to hire lawyers to read the paperwork. Many repair shops in the months following had a drop in business and that was bad.

Oh yes for every $2,000 given $24,000 the government spent (92% overhead).

Now think about health care Government style. Great... just great.

Not to mention that you were taxed on the money you got for "free" and ended spending more money than you were given (tax on credit, sales tax on car, registration and licensing fees, etc). Meaning the gov't did something nice for people only to find another more creative to screw more money out of them.

 

[Boatwrench]

We don't all have to agree and we should be able to discuss points-of-view, of which we may learn and grow from.

Yep.

Darky,
I'm not so sure about "most Americans" not wanting it. The only places I heard people disagree with it are here on , FOX News, and from my CG buddies. Most of the neighbors and people I go to church with are for National Health Care.

One piece of irony is the Health Care requires people to have health care insurance...what about the people who can't afford it? and wasn't that the point of having health care reform, so people could afford health insurance?

 

[goodburbon]

When am I supposed to pick up my rifle and march to Washington?

We are incrementally losing our freedom, our rights, and our heritage is being glossed over. If there is no one defining moment which paints the other side as the enemy of everyone, I'll just look like a lone looney walking down the highway with an AR slung on my shoulder on my way to certain arrest and incarceration or death.

So we'll just sit on our laurels, waiting for the moment when the line is crossed, which will never happen as long as the progressive movement keeps pushing that line ahead of themselves.

We can vote the bums out, but they'll just be replaced by well meaning people who will be swallowed up by a system so corrupt that the innocent will of the people never ever makes it to simple legislation without being so corrupted and distorted that it only adds to the problem.

Laws should be voted on one page at a time, not 2700 pages at one time that a few people have skimmed over.

 

[goodburbon]

Yep.

Darky,
I'm not so sure about "most Americans" not wanting it. The only places I heard people disagree with it are here on , FOX News, and from my CG buddies. Most of the neighbors and people I go to church with are for National Health Care.

One piece of irony is the Health Care requires people to have health care insurance...what about the people who can't afford it? and wasn't that the point of having health care reform, so people could afford health insurance?

You live in California, I expect nothing less. Two states with views opposite the rest of the nation and nearly half of the population. I don't like living by the rules of the retarded just because there happen to be more of them than sensible people.

 

[Boatwrench]

You live in California, I expect nothing less. Two states with views opposite the rest of the nation and nearly half of the population. I don't like living by the rules of the retarded just because there happen to be more of them than sensible people.

I believe Health Care package passing is more popular than most here believe. If it wasn't popular how come 25 states (excluding California & New York) had more Aye votes than Nay votes? Even TX had over 1/3 of the Representative voting 'Aye'. Had the TX delegation to the house stood united those 12 'Ayes' would have made the difference.

 

[Darky]

Yep.

Darky,
I'm not so sure about "most Americans" not wanting it. The only places I heard people disagree with it are here on , FOX News, and from my CG buddies. Most of the neighbors and people I go to church with are for National Health Care.

One piece of irony is the Health Care requires people to have health care insurance...what about the people who can't afford it? and wasn't that the point of having health care reform, so people could afford health insurance?

Most of the surveys I've seen have been against it, and almost everyone I know is against it. It would seem that most are against, but then my sample isn't the most scientific...

However, it would seem that the media has been showing an awful lot of opposition in general. I don't watch Fox News because I only have antenna TV, so I've been watching the LA local news (oddly my broadcast TV is rebroadcast satellite TV, and only the "local" channels, which for here is LA. Even though Palm Springs is much closer and has local news.)

 

[Darky]

I believe Health Care package passing is more popular than most here believe. If it wasn't popular how come 25 states (excluding California & New York) had more Aye votes than Nay votes? Even TX had over 1/3 of the Representative voting 'Aye'. Had the TX delegation to the house stood united those 12 'Ayes' would have made the difference.

Because a lot of people decided they didn't like Bush and as a result, Republicans across the board suffered. Congress was packed with Dems, and the Congress is notoriously partisan. Look at the votes, 0 Republicans and 219 Democrats voted for it. 34 Democrats and 178 Republicans voted against it. The closest thing we got to bipartisanship was in the people who voted no. Didn't Obama recently say, possibly in the State of the Union last month that a purely partisan victory is no good?

And Biden does it again...

Biden punctuated his point with some profanity at the end, whispering, “This is a big f---ing deal,” in the president’s ear loud enough for the microphones to pick it up at the podium.

 

[goodburbon]

I believe Health Care package passing is more popular than most here believe. If it wasn't popular how come 25 states (excluding California & New York) had more Aye votes than Nay votes? Even TX had over 1/3 of the Representative voting 'Aye'. Had the TX delegation to the house stood united those 12 'Ayes' would have made the difference.

I believe you are in Kalifornia and may be misinformed on what the rest of the country is about.

I have yet to meet ANYONE in person who has voiced that they think this was a good idea.

 

[XJEEPER]

I believe Health Care package passing is more popular than most here believe. If it wasn't popular how come 25 states (excluding California & New York) had more Aye votes than Nay votes? Even TX had over 1/3 of the Representative voting 'Aye'. Had the TX delegation to the house stood united those 12 'Ayes' would have made the difference.

Are you serious Tom?

Poll: Most Say Health Care Fight About Politics, Not Policy

Asked why Democrats worked to pass a health care bill, 57 percent said "mostly political reasons." Just 35 percent said it was because Democrats think the bill is good policy.


Americans had an even more cynical view of Republican motivations: 61 percent said Republicans were acting on the basis of political concerns, while 29 percent said Republicans truly believed the bill was bad policy.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_health_care_032210.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody

As I read this, the summary that I come up with is that only 35% of the American people think that the Democrats voted for the bill because it was good policy.......only 35% of the American People think they voted Aye because it was in the best interest of the American People who they elected to represent them in Washington.

This also means that 65% of the American People think this bill is BAD policy. Regardless of your background, schooling or math skills..... it's obvious that 65% is well over the majority of Americans who oppose the bill. Yet our elected officials voted in favor of it anyway.


Someone want to me tell me how a dictatorship works again?

I say "I don;t want this, it is bad for me." Obama say's we're going to pass this bill because "it's the right thing to do"......back the truck up Barry!

65% of the People who elected you into office to serve and protect our County and uphold the US Constitution on our behalf, said that they opposed the bill yet Obama, Pelosi and Reid did "whatever it takes" to push it through anyway?

Explain to me how this isn't Tyranny?


How many side deals and earmarks were created to get them to vote Aye?

Obama outright lied to the Pro-Life Dems that were holding out and not willing to vote for the bill, promising them an Executive Order that prohibits federal funds from paying for abortions…… which, if he doesn’t back out on, will not be enforceable anyway so it’s was all just a big LIE to get them to support the legislation.

"The Obama administration knows full well that statutory law overrides executive orders.
The president acting alone cannot 'extend' the Hyde Amendment policy to new programs as the Executive Order vaguely purports to do - only the Congress can do that. "A court challenge (i.e. by Planned Parenthood) would immediately invalidate the null promises of the Executive Order."

"The health care reform legislation passed by the U. S. House of Representatives this evening clearly violates the U.S. Constitution and infringes on each state's sovereignty,"

This bill is a glowing example of the corruption that is entrenched in our government and of the agenda that President Obama and the Progressives (Dems and Reps alike) are pushing down our throats.

 

[Boatwrench]

I have yet to meet ANYONE in person who has voiced that they think this was a good idea.

So what, in the grand scheme of things that does not matter, this was a national issue not a local one. The nation's representatives voted to pass this issue, not just the ones from California, I am not sure you are from TX or CO so below is how your representatives voted. Your issue needs to be with them, not California. It was a majority of states, 27 of 50, not just one state that supported this package.

I have personally met people on both sides of this issue, but that doesn't matter. Free sharing of thought won't be tolerated, the last administration tried to stop that and failed, maybe the current administration will succeed, because that's next.

I showed you the numbers, taken after reviewing the roll call, I didn't vote on Sunday, just showing the results.

Here is how the Colorado delegation voted:
COLORADO
Democrats — DeGette, Y; Markey, Y; Perlmutter, Y; Polis, Y; Salazar, Y.
Republicans — Coffman, N; Lamborn, N.

and Texas:
TEXAS

Democrats — Cuellar, Y; Doggett, Y; Edwards, N; Gonzalez, Y; Green, Al, Y; Green, Gene, Y; Hinojosa, Y; Jackson Lee, Y; Johnson, E. B., Y; Ortiz, Y; Reyes, Y; Rodriguez, Y.
Republicans — Barton, N; Brady, N; Burgess, N; Carter, N; Conaway, N; Culberson, N; Gohmert, N; Granger, N; Hall, N; Hensarling, N; Johnson, Sam, N; Marchant, N; McCaul, N; Neugebauer, N; Olson, N; Paul, N; Poe, N; Sessions, N; Smith, N; Thornberry, N.

 

[Boatwrench]

Jeff,

I didn't make up the numbers. 27 of 50 states voted for this package. I find it hard to fathom that so many representatives would go against their constituents. For all the California bashing I have met people on both sides of the issue and not into group think as appears to be happening in at least 23 of the 50 states.

Is this the best health care package? I don't know. Personally I believe the "package" should have been voted on item by item in small doses. We may very well have ended up with the same results but it would have been more orderly.

Have I personnally met folks on both sides of the issue? Yes. I have many friends in the central valley farm region who are vehemently opposed to this legislation. They put up with me.

My point has always been to shake things up here so posters will see that there are at least two sides to every issue. The my way or the highway attitude is most un -American.

Jeff,
You often mention the loss of Freedoms during lunch I was thinking about that and had an ephiany. The Freedoms started being erroded with helmet laws.

 

[kastein]

I feel like we were just sold a Cherokee and delivered a Hummer H3 with 30 inch rims

 

[Boatwrench]

Jeff,

I didn't make up the numbers. 27 of 50 states voted for this package. I find it hard to fathom that so many representatives would go against their constituents. For all the California bashing I have met people on both sides of the issue and not into group think as appears to be happening in at least 23 of the 50 states.

Is this the best health care package? I don't know. Personally I believe the "package" should have been voted on item by item in small doses. We may very well have ended up with the same results but it would have been more orderly.

Have I personnally met folks on both sides of the issue? Yes. I have many friends in the central valley farm region who are vehemently opposed to this legislation. They put up with me.

35% For and 65% against. Congress won't turn over by the same margin in November. Doesn't matter what they say to a pollster, look at how many people here bragged about answers to the census, it matter what the citizens do in November. We can assess each other points then.

My point has always been to sthake things up here so posters will see that there are at least two sides to every issue.