CobraMarty
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PM me any questions
Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with the Gibson header. I an interested in the GP400S-C stainless and ceramic coated.
Gibson Header
- Thread starter CobraMarty
- Start date
- Location
- WA state
Have run Gibson on GM and other Mopar vehicles, but no experience with the XJ header.. They make quality stuff.
O-Gauge Steamer
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
If you are going to be installing the Sprintex SC, the header, ANY header most likely will not fit.
Sprintex is quite clear on this. No clearance at the front of the intake manifold for an aftermarket header. Only the stock or a stock type replacement exhaust manifold will fit under the intake.
I am attempting to save you some grief here. Not to mention the bucks...
On the other hand, if you have decided not to go with FI, then Gibson makes a nice header. But as is the case in with any "bolt in" header, the gains will not be much. What is needed is long tube headers with a 32" primary length. With unequal length primaries, the pulses are not properly timed at the collector to get the best improvement.
Also, I do not like/support the 1 5/8" primary header diameter. For my money, the 1 1/2" is better. IMO, you looses velocity and, again IMO, velocity is what you want in an exhaust system. To get the exhaust as far away from the valve as is possible and as fast as is practical.
Be careful with the choices you make if you go with the Sprintex SC.
I am sure some will argue with me on the primary length but the primaries do determine, to a fair degree, where the HP/Torque peaks will occur. In order to fit this type of header, the entire down pipe would need to be replaced and the exhaust routed in a fashion similar to Wranglers. Under the front of the oil pan which means they would never work on a non-lifted Heep. The whole axle in the way thing...
Sprintex is quite clear on this. No clearance at the front of the intake manifold for an aftermarket header. Only the stock or a stock type replacement exhaust manifold will fit under the intake.
I am attempting to save you some grief here. Not to mention the bucks...
On the other hand, if you have decided not to go with FI, then Gibson makes a nice header. But as is the case in with any "bolt in" header, the gains will not be much. What is needed is long tube headers with a 32" primary length. With unequal length primaries, the pulses are not properly timed at the collector to get the best improvement.
Also, I do not like/support the 1 5/8" primary header diameter. For my money, the 1 1/2" is better. IMO, you looses velocity and, again IMO, velocity is what you want in an exhaust system. To get the exhaust as far away from the valve as is possible and as fast as is practical.
Be careful with the choices you make if you go with the Sprintex SC.
I am sure some will argue with me on the primary length but the primaries do determine, to a fair degree, where the HP/Torque peaks will occur. In order to fit this type of header, the entire down pipe would need to be replaced and the exhaust routed in a fashion similar to Wranglers. Under the front of the oil pan which means they would never work on a non-lifted Heep. The whole axle in the way thing...
CobraMarty
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PM me any questions
It's amazing how one thing leads to another, etc. My stock header is cracked and needs replacing and I had previously bought a Banks Revolver header- beautiful piece, but it doesn't fit with the Sprintex SC intake manifold. Looking at the Gibson GP400S-C stainless ceramic coated header, it looks like it has the right bends in it and might fit. Amazon had a great deal on the Gibson- which is a 1.5" primary header, and a 30 day money back return if it doesn't fit. If no fit, then I guess it is a stock header, ? from ebay.
It is a shame no one makes a full length 32" header with a front crossover pipe.
Maybe I will have to drive to Quadratec and try all the headers they have on for size and clearance.
It is a shame no one makes a full length 32" header with a front crossover pipe.
Maybe I will have to drive to Quadratec and try all the headers they have on for size and clearance.
O-Gauge Steamer
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
WHAT??? A stock manifold cracked? I just don't belive it. Those things last forever! Well, maybe not...
At least I have you looking to be sure it will all play nice together. If you are going to go this route, do the research and be very careful. I wish you well and hope for your eventual success.
Watch those spark plugs closely for fuel distribution. As I have said before, my concern with the AEM and an extra injector is the timing of the injection. With the AEM, it will fire with the number 1 injector (provifing it is wired to the number one) and no other. The SMT8-L worked differently. More injections.
This is the reason I spent the bucks on new injectors. Had zero faith in the slug of fuel being dumped into the system getting evenly distributed to all of the cylinders. Injectors are not cheap. And, I am on a fixed income (disabled) so you can trust me to not spend money needlessly.
If you were closer, I'd drop in to help. We would have it runningin an afternoon. But, you will be tweaking the map for a while. Unless you can afford dyno time.
BTW, I really would like to be wrong about the fuel distribution. So, let us know how it goes.
If you find a header that clears the Sprintex intake, drop me a line and let me know. It will save me from having to build a set...
At least I have you looking to be sure it will all play nice together. If you are going to go this route, do the research and be very careful. I wish you well and hope for your eventual success.
Watch those spark plugs closely for fuel distribution. As I have said before, my concern with the AEM and an extra injector is the timing of the injection. With the AEM, it will fire with the number 1 injector (provifing it is wired to the number one) and no other. The SMT8-L worked differently. More injections.
This is the reason I spent the bucks on new injectors. Had zero faith in the slug of fuel being dumped into the system getting evenly distributed to all of the cylinders. Injectors are not cheap. And, I am on a fixed income (disabled) so you can trust me to not spend money needlessly.
If you were closer, I'd drop in to help. We would have it runningin an afternoon. But, you will be tweaking the map for a while. Unless you can afford dyno time.
BTW, I really would like to be wrong about the fuel distribution. So, let us know how it goes.
If you find a header that clears the Sprintex intake, drop me a line and let me know. It will save me from having to build a set...
souske
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The land of competition
If you give a mouse a cookie..
CobraMarty
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PM me any questions
So the idea of the aux. injector especially before the SC is that the fuel will get 'homogenized' mixed evenly with the air so that anywhere the air goes, the mixture will go. So as long as the airflow distribution to each cylinder is the equal there will be equal distribution of the air/fuel mix. Even with no 7th injector and using larger injectors there can be maldistribution of the air so each cylinder will get the same amount of fuel but will get different amounts of air. So each cylinder will have different A/F mixtures. Lean cylinders and rich cylinders. Unless you go to individual o2 sensors per cylinder and sequential EFI that you can adjust each cylinder, it will always be a comprimise. Whipple has been using injectors before the twinscrew blower for years with success. I am not concerned about the 7 injector or it only 'firing' with #1 cylinder. That is how they all do it and it does work. I hope.
Last edited:
CobraMarty
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PM me any questions
?... will he build a supercharger kit?
souske
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- The land of competition
He will want a glass of milk,
Then he will want to see his milk moustache,
Since he is in the bathroom might as well brush his hair,
And so on...
Then he will want to see his milk moustache,
Since he is in the bathroom might as well brush his hair,
And so on...
CobraMarty
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PM me any questions
OK but can he build a stainless steel header?
O-Gauge Steamer
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
Like I have said, keep track of your plugs. The operation of the two fuel systems is different and from what I know, there was zero long term research done on the AEM version of the extra injector version. It was bolted into one XJ and the customer was sent on his merry way. Perhaps Boostec will provide you with the person's contact information so you can follow up on it.
So, good luck to any who choose this path. We will have to agree to disagree. Which is perfectly fine.
So, good luck to any who choose this path. We will have to agree to disagree. Which is perfectly fine.
CobraMarty
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PM me any questions
The hardware is decent. But like most kits, it is the tuning which is the tough part. So many times it is up to the end user.
O-G-S, Where is your intake air temp sensor mounted? Is it under the TB or in the intake manifold? What are your intake temp readings? idle, cruise, boost? Do you know what the 7th injector is rated? lb/hr?
O-G-S, Where is your intake air temp sensor mounted? Is it under the TB or in the intake manifold? What are your intake temp readings? idle, cruise, boost? Do you know what the 7th injector is rated? lb/hr?
CobraMarty
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PM me any questions
So it looks like the Banks revolver headers do not fit the SC intake manifold. Cylinder #2 comes up too high and hits and #6 comes off at a diagonal angle and hits. Dang, I really wanted to try this header design. The Gibson GP400S-C fits and has plenty of clearence. The #2 stays low and #6 comes straight down then angles over. This is the one to use. Stainless steel and Ceramic coated too. Amazon has the best price. Mine was 'used'/return item never used for $295 free shipping!
CobraMarty
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PM me any questions
There is 1/2" plus clearance everywhere.
O-Gauge Steamer
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Colorado Springs, Colorado
Marty,
Firstly, good job finding a header that clears... And thanks for the photo and the clearance reading.
Secondly, there is a port on the intake manifold that took an IAT sensor for the Perfect Power SMT8-L. However, the AEM F/IC6 does not have the IAT input so you can not add one to the F/IC. Also, If you have the AW4 transmission, you may be one port short for vacuum connections at the TB mounting point.
I disassembled the SC intake from the compressor and put in another tapped location. I used that location for the Heep's IAT Sensor. I can take and post a photo if you like. But it is located under the factory MAP near the top of the SC intake. Also, there is a vacuum port located outboard/bottom of the compressor intake that will work best for the Power Brake vacuum signal. Avoid the ones right under the TB.
ALso also, If you extend the hard vacuum line for the HVAC controls through the fitting so that it protrudes under the TB opening, you will get a stronger vacuum signal. The Boostec Jeep's HVAC drops out of where ever it is set (i.e. floor or vent) and goes to defrost under acceleration. All due to a poor vacuum signal. I pointed out the problem with using "TEE" connections on vacuum lines but the powers that be chose to ignore. So they have an issue and I do not.
I did the machine work with the SC intake off of the compressor for the obvious reason. To prevent any chance of debris getting into the compressor. I am sure you noticed that every opening is sealed shut. Cleanliness is an imperative.
Do not know the flow rate for sure as Sprintex did not let me know. And, for me, it is academic as I do not use it.
Firstly, good job finding a header that clears... And thanks for the photo and the clearance reading.
Secondly, there is a port on the intake manifold that took an IAT sensor for the Perfect Power SMT8-L. However, the AEM F/IC6 does not have the IAT input so you can not add one to the F/IC. Also, If you have the AW4 transmission, you may be one port short for vacuum connections at the TB mounting point.
I disassembled the SC intake from the compressor and put in another tapped location. I used that location for the Heep's IAT Sensor. I can take and post a photo if you like. But it is located under the factory MAP near the top of the SC intake. Also, there is a vacuum port located outboard/bottom of the compressor intake that will work best for the Power Brake vacuum signal. Avoid the ones right under the TB.
ALso also, If you extend the hard vacuum line for the HVAC controls through the fitting so that it protrudes under the TB opening, you will get a stronger vacuum signal. The Boostec Jeep's HVAC drops out of where ever it is set (i.e. floor or vent) and goes to defrost under acceleration. All due to a poor vacuum signal. I pointed out the problem with using "TEE" connections on vacuum lines but the powers that be chose to ignore. So they have an issue and I do not.
I did the machine work with the SC intake off of the compressor for the obvious reason. To prevent any chance of debris getting into the compressor. I am sure you noticed that every opening is sealed shut. Cleanliness is an imperative.
Do not know the flow rate for sure as Sprintex did not let me know. And, for me, it is academic as I do not use it.
CobraMarty
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- PM me any questions
There are 5 holes in the TB intake manifold- 3 under the TB pointing towards the engine, 1 under the TB pointing towards the firewall, 1 down low pointing away from the engine. There are also 2-one large and one small on top of the SC intake manifold.
I have my IAT sensor mounted in the Air filter intake tube. I plan to have the IAT in the air filter intake tube and a 2nd one on top of the SC intake manifold. This way I can measure the intake temp at two different locations- one the very cold air filter intake tube and the other hotter temp of the SC charge output on the SC intake manifold. This will tell me what the charge temp is- how well in the 7th injector 'cooling' the SC heated air and if I need an intercooler or methanol injection or. Anyway this frees up the hole under the TB pointing towards the firewall where sprintex has the IAT sensor go.
The one down low will go to the brake booster and the other 4(3+1) under the TB can go for the other connections. That still leaves the small one on the SC intake manifold for the boost gauge. I will have no tee fittings in this.
I do have some other things to do first. I want to install the headers, '99 intake, 703 injectors and dyno it and try the superchips powerpaq to load the different tunes and redyno it. Then I want to install the SC. I want to do it in steps and make sure everything is working right before going to the next step. Do too much, too many steps, all at once and if there is a problem, who's guess where the problem is.
I still am thinking about using the CPS mod to add 5-6* advance for when out of boost when the engine seems to need a bit more advanced timing and then use the F/IC to pull the timing out when under boost.
I have my IAT sensor mounted in the Air filter intake tube. I plan to have the IAT in the air filter intake tube and a 2nd one on top of the SC intake manifold. This way I can measure the intake temp at two different locations- one the very cold air filter intake tube and the other hotter temp of the SC charge output on the SC intake manifold. This will tell me what the charge temp is- how well in the 7th injector 'cooling' the SC heated air and if I need an intercooler or methanol injection or. Anyway this frees up the hole under the TB pointing towards the firewall where sprintex has the IAT sensor go.
The one down low will go to the brake booster and the other 4(3+1) under the TB can go for the other connections. That still leaves the small one on the SC intake manifold for the boost gauge. I will have no tee fittings in this.
I do have some other things to do first. I want to install the headers, '99 intake, 703 injectors and dyno it and try the superchips powerpaq to load the different tunes and redyno it. Then I want to install the SC. I want to do it in steps and make sure everything is working right before going to the next step. Do too much, too many steps, all at once and if there is a problem, who's guess where the problem is.
I still am thinking about using the CPS mod to add 5-6* advance for when out of boost when the engine seems to need a bit more advanced timing and then use the F/IC to pull the timing out when under boost.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! You guys got it all wrong. If you give a mouse a cookie, then he'll swap a RB26 into his Jeep. :cheers:
- Location
- Torrance, CA
Or you could have someone reflash your ecu to have a nice boost friendly fuel/timing curve and also have them turn off the accel enrichment timers that will hold the car in closed loop at WOT. :rtm:
Similar threads
