Ralph
NAXJA Member #149
- Location
- Lubbock, Texas
What are your views on the unrest in Egypt? I think it's about time. I could never understand how people from that part of the world tolerated dictatorship for so long.
Egypt??
- Thread starter Ralph
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old_man
NAXJA Forum User
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- Loveland, Colorado
I hope things don't get too unstable or the extremists will move in and try to take over.
Ralph
NAXJA Member #149
- Location
- Lubbock, Texas
The extremists are going to try in any case. I hope the population is educated enough to know better. The extremists will never help the country solve the problems that have brought on these protests.
XJLI
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Long Island, NY
blackberrys are working again over there, i dont see what all the unrest is all about.
Ralph
NAXJA Member #149
- Location
- Lubbock, Texas
70% of the population is under the age of 35. A large portion of that population is educated. The unemployment rate of educated people in Egypt is very high. Some reports are as high as 30%. The Egyptian economy is growing, but the people see little benefit from it. There is wide spread poverty. There is wide spread corruption not only in government, but in the private sector as well. Of the few jobs that are available, you would either have to have some special connections to get the job or pay the hiring manager a big bribe in order to get it. Prices are rising. They live under a totalitarian government that doesn't respond to their needs. They've had it and aren't going to put up with it any more. Did I miss anything?
mcantar18c
NAXJA Forum User
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- Fayettnam
Extremists aren't gonna take over. What's happening in Egypt is unlikely to lead towards a revolution.
"The history of revolutions is that they only succeed when the government loses the will or the capability to use violence and so far there is nothing that is happening in Egypt that suggests that either one is going to happen."
It doesn't matter that Egypt's government (like that of Iran under the Shah) faces resurgent Islamic fundamentalism attacking a government seen as corrupt and overly close to heretic governments in the west. It's insufficient that the government is unpopular, perpetuating and exploiting gross income inequality, and funadamentally unjust.
Egypt's military controls the country and understands that a revolution generally isn't good for business. As long as the local military doesn't lose its will to retain power, things will hold.
"The history of revolutions is that they only succeed when the government loses the will or the capability to use violence and so far there is nothing that is happening in Egypt that suggests that either one is going to happen."
It doesn't matter that Egypt's government (like that of Iran under the Shah) faces resurgent Islamic fundamentalism attacking a government seen as corrupt and overly close to heretic governments in the west. It's insufficient that the government is unpopular, perpetuating and exploiting gross income inequality, and funadamentally unjust.
Egypt's military controls the country and understands that a revolution generally isn't good for business. As long as the local military doesn't lose its will to retain power, things will hold.
ECKSJAY
Water is dirty
- Location
- Covington, WA
C'mon...you can at least cite your source.
http://counterterrorismblog.org/2011/01/mubareks_egypt_isnt_the_shahs.php
Ralph
NAXJA Member #149
- Location
- Lubbock, Texas
Thanks, Ecksjay. Good stuff. I hope what is written in the last paragraph works out for us as Americans, the Middle East as a region and the Egyptian people. I don't think the issues that have sparked all this unrest will be resolved otherwise.
mcantar18c
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Fayettnam
Posting from my phone... no copy and paste. Thanks for the link :thumbup:
WB9YZU
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Madison, WI
It's F'd up.
But then it's been F'd up for a long time.
Hopefully the White House will be wise enough to let them have their revolution without our help.
And to not be stupid enough to repeat the Iran hostage crisis.
But then it's been F'd up for a long time.
Thomas Jefferson
Hopefully the White House will be wise enough to let them have their revolution without our help.
And to not be stupid enough to repeat the Iran hostage crisis.
mcantar18c
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Fayettnam
And here goes the thread derail...
Tehran was a fawk up, mostly brought about by lack of communication between the agencies and groups involved. It was a huge learning experience for the major players and a great amount of how we operate now is a direct result of what was learned there. If we were faced with the same situation today, there's no doubt in my mind that we could pull it off without any major hiccups.
As for us getting involved, there have been plenty of similar situations where we... assisted... in revolutions and its worked out just fine. The reason you haven't heard about them is because they worked.
WB9YZU
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Madison, WI
And when it doesn't work...
It makes us look really, really, really arrogant and stupid...
and costs American lives...
Lives which would not have been lost if we would have adopted a MYOB foreign policy at the outset.
We need to learn the difference of backing a government that is friendly toward our foreign policy goals, and backing a government which is unpopular with it's own citizens, and when to remove that support. We need to allow other countries citizens the same freedom we deemed our divine right to reach for.
If they choose a different path than ours in the long term, so be it, it is their journey, not ours.
It makes us look really, really, really arrogant and stupid...
and costs American lives...
Lives which would not have been lost if we would have adopted a MYOB foreign policy at the outset.
We need to learn the difference of backing a government that is friendly toward our foreign policy goals, and backing a government which is unpopular with it's own citizens, and when to remove that support. We need to allow other countries citizens the same freedom we deemed our divine right to reach for.
If they choose a different path than ours in the long term, so be it, it is their journey, not ours.
Ralph
NAXJA Member #149
- Location
- Lubbock, Texas
I don't normally agree with our president, but so far he's been doing as well as can be expected. There's not a whole lot he can do, but shut up and watch. For the most part he's doing exactly that. Not much chance of there being a repeat of Iran. It's a completely different situation. We do not support the Egyptian government like we did in Iran. We didn't have anything to do with putting Mubarak in power like we did the Shaw either.
Hmmm... must be why much of the rest of the world wants to kick our imperialistic @ss these days.
ralph said:
This might be of interest to you...
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/162437.html
Edited to add:
I'm not saying that we shouldn't protect ourselves abroad from the threat of terrorism.
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Ralph
NAXJA Member #149
- Location
- Lubbock, Texas
Seriously?
hubs97xj
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Fort Wayne, IN
Mmm, yeah, I dunno about that link... I don't view Iran as a great source of unbiased information involving the US or Israel... call me crazy, but that's how I am.
mcantar18c
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Fayettnam
When was the last time you heard about an operation like that not working? I'm guessing Iran, right? Believe me, the early 80's was NOT the last time we did that.
Who said anything about backing their gov't? Our support is given to whomever we see as the best tools to use to reach our goals, whatever they may be at the time. Training resistance groups in guerilla warfare and supplying them with funds and needed equipment to enable them to overtake current govt's we don't see eye to eye with is something we've done for a long time. See Panama.
If we help a group in ways said above and they change their agenda, that IS our problem. See bin Laden. We (the CIA) funded his operations, helped train them and gave them weapons when they were a resistance group fighting the Communist invasion of Afghanistan... all was good and fine until he decided to point those guns back at us.
Ralph said:
LOL... oops...
That link wasn't meant to be taken as a reputable definitive, just show how THAT part of the world appears to be looking at the situation.
I guess I should've been a little more specific.
Ralph
NAXJA Member #149
- Location
- Lubbock, Texas
I think a lot of this is an attempt to divert attention from the people in Egypt's desire for self determination. That desire by the people of Egypt has got to be scaring the crap out of every other Muslim dictatorship.
Agreed... as well as divert attention away from an attempt by the "Muslim Brotherhood" to exploit the people's desires in order to ratchet-up jihad.
Here's a few more links on the matter, this time from a site I actually enjoy visiting...
http://www.therightscoop.com/john-bolton-on-the-situation-in-egypt#
http://www.therightscoop.com/walid-shoebat-we-must-support-mubarak#
http://www.therightscoop.com/bridgette-gabriel-on-egypt-and-mubarak#
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