Dodge D44Front&D60Rear

K

KAL_EL

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
I need clarification on something.

I have not gotten an XJ yet but I am on my way after I glean some information from you all.

I would like to get an XJ and modify it to be a rock crawler/daily driver.

I would like to swap in a D44 Front and D60 Rear.

I have a Rear D60 that I have sitting in my garage. It came out of my daily driver 1977 W200 Dodge Power Wagon. (Swapped it out for a 1985 D60 with limited slip)

I also have a D44 Front that came out of a 1975 Plymouth Trailduster sport w/Fulltime 4WD (I Robbed the 440/727 out of it for the benefit of the W200 also :D )

I read CRASH's article "Dana 44 Tech"
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=52219&highlight=Dana+60

But he only refers to late model Dodge D44's (1994-2002) when he says
"The late model Dodge’s really should not be in consideration for a swap"

Q:---Are the inherent problems with swapping in a front D44 out of the late model dodges the same as for the 1970's models?

Concerning the D60 Rear, I think it is a 30 spline...*I think* and I don’t think boring the spindle out would be an option. Somewhere between 1977 and 1985 dodge went from having 2 bearing sizes on the spindle (a smaller bearing was on the outside end of the spindle) to one bearing size (same size inner and outside of spindle). I noticed this when I was swapping the axles on the truck and needed to keep the 1977 brake drums.
The 1977 spindle has a step in the spindle diameter to accommodate the smaller outer bearing and the 1985 spindle had two bearings about the same size as the 1977 larger inner bearing. Basically the 1977 spindle would be too thin if it were to be bored out, because of the step.

Q: Is it worth the trouble getting the D60 to fit on an XJ if upgrading to the larger axle shafts is not possible without compromising spindle strength? To that same point...how "Bolt-on" IS a D60 onto a XJ?

I searched the website and couldn't find anything for my specific questions, so if I missed a previous post by someone please give me the link.


(Sorry, if it was long winded):yap:



Thx for your help.
 
I drive a 2001 Dodge 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup at work. It appears to have a Dana 60 front axle, with a vacuum disconnect system (meaning no hubs). The axle has been extremely tough, but not so the steering parts attached to the axle. It currently needs ball joints, shocks, alignment, track bar due to driving on logging roads-- at only about 60,000 km which is about 40,000 miles. The alignment shop told me that Dodge went to a better design starting in 2002. I can't comment on the Dodge Dana 44 front axle- I would find out if there are similar concerns.
The rear axle is a great-looking Dana 60, with decent disk brakes. It is a semi-floating design, so the shafts have to come out to change the disks. It is waaaay wide for an XJ.
 
I'm planning on running a late model dodge D44. I honestly see no problems with it. If you want there are kits for lock-out hubs. The steering is an inverted Y like ours. But you can purchase the steering for the 2500 and 3500 HD and it is an inverted T, knuckle to knuckle tie rod. Also there are several aftermarket setups for over the knuckle steering. I don't know about the rear as I'm going with the 9.25 out of the same truck.
 
4xBob said:
The rear axle is a great-looking Dana 60, with decent disk brakes. It is a semi-floating design, so the shafts have to come out to change the disks. It is waaaay wide for an XJ.
Click to expand...
I cant comment about the late model Dana 60's but I know my 1977 Dana 60 is a full floater.

And about the axle being wide, is it quite common for XJer's to shorten the axles?

What about attaching the jeep leaf springs to the wider D60? Since the D60 is wider than the stock rear axle, what is typically done to give a flat area for the leaf pack to sit on the D60? Is a new leaf pack FLat usually fabed up and welded onto the axle housing?


akram said:
I'm planning on running a late model dodge D44. I honestly see no problems with it. If you want there are kits for lock-out hubs. The steering is an inverted Y like ours. But you can purchase the steering for the 2500 and 3500 HD and it is an inverted T, knuckle to knuckle tie rod. Also there are several aftermarket setups for over the knuckle steering. I don't know about the rear as I'm going with the 9.25 out of the same truck.
Click to expand...

This is one of those questions I feel stupid asking, but my front Dana 44 came out of a fulltime 4wd truck so why would I need to go to lock-out hubs? Also, (I am going from memory here but..) I think my D44 is crossover (non Hy Steer setup) unlike the inverted Y you are refering to. Would that be a problem?

Thx for your responses, I was beginning to think I had made a post that was either too stupid or too hard.;)
 
I'll be watching this with interest, I've got a 78 PowerWagon in the garage. I have the same axles, but mine are loaded w/ detroit lockers and 4.56s already, so I'd love to find a way to use em on the jeep...

KAL_EL said:
What about attaching the jeep leaf springs to the wider D60? Since the D60 is wider than the stock rear axle, what is typically done to give a flat area for the leaf pack to sit on the D60?
Click to expand...

I read (on the internet, so it MUST be true!) that the springpads on our D60s line up perfectly with the XJ leafs. Some quick work with the tape measure suggests this is true, but I haven't made 100% sure...

I think the axles themselves are only about 4" wider than stock XJ, so the wheels wouldn't stick out too terribly far. And wheels with a little more backspace could put em right back where they belong...

The big catch is getting all the bracketry to fit the front axle, and the pass drop, of course.

Good luck, and lemme know what you find out...

Robert
 
I think the axle you got would work just fine with some mods. It's oging to take some fabrication to get any axle in that wasn't meant to be there in the first place. The steering should be fine. Even the inverted Y is actually fine. Does your axle have the CAD system like the Xj's? The one I'm hoping to use does. I personally don't have a problem with it especially when you can make a posi-lok for cheap.
 
akram said:
Does your axle have the CAD system like the Xj's? The one I'm hoping to use does.
Click to expand...

No
It is full time 4wd, everything is turning all the time. Just Hi and low options with transfercase loc thrown in.

(4Hi) (4LO) (4Lo Loc) (4 Hi Loc)
 
KAL_EL said:
No
It is full time 4wd, everything is turning all the time. Just Hi and low options with transfercase loc thrown in.

(4 Hi Loc) (4Hi) (N) (4LO) (4Lo Loc)
Click to expand...

^ (fixed it for ya) ^

So are you planning to steal the Dodge T-case to go with the axles? That was my (very vague) plan, but I don't know how good the dodge unit is...

Maybe a pass-drop D300 instead?

Robert
 
The mid-70's Dodge front axle is just like a Chevy 44, very standard stuff. Easily narrowed to XJ desirable width, uses standard hub assemblies which accept Warn hubs in place of the full time drive flanges.

The rear 60, if you want to narrow it, just get some Set 20 (bearing size) bearing cups and have them welded on to the desired width. Then buy 35 spline semifloating shafts of appropriate length. If you want to keep the FF, and you have the small spindles, you can whack those off and weld on FF 14 bolt spindles, which accept 35 spline shafts. Then use the 14 bolt hubs.

I don't like late model Dodge stuff because of the lack of steering options. No true high steer available for those hub assemblies, though Tera may have something in the works or complete (see PaulS's threads in Adv Fab).

Oh, and of course, there is the T-case issue with the early Dodge passenger drop axles. Unless cutting up your XJ's floor pan is not an issue. But gawd, I wouldn't do that for a cheesy 44. It would take a 60, at least.
 
CRASH said:
The mid-70's Dodge front axle is just like a Chevy 44, very standard stuff. Easily narrowed to XJ desirable width, uses standard hub assemblies which accept Warn hubs in place of the full time drive flanges.
Click to expand...
So if I were to create a "to-do list" to intergrate the D44 front onto the XJ would it be....

-Move the spring pack axle flat to the proper position...(since XJ's are coil springs would I use the stock axle bracketry?).
-Change out the hubs to warn (manual Hubs??)
-Then modify the front drive shaft as needed for proper length and U-joint fit.
-Then "Easily" narrow the axle....( :dunno: Need more info please) Is this usually done just to keep it street legal?

I am still alittle clueless why the hubs need to be changed out. I am assuming the Warn hubs replace the full time flanges so that the XJ T-case can still be used? 4WD to 2WD??


CRASH said:
The rear 60, if you want to narrow it, just get some Set 20 (bearing size) bearing cups and have them welded on to the desired width. Then buy 35 spline semifloating shafts of appropriate length. If you want to keep the FF, and you have the small spindles, you can whack those off and weld on FF 14 bolt spindles, which accept 35 spline shafts. Then use the 14 bolt hubs.
Click to expand...
This seems straight forward enough. I WOULD like to keep the full-floating, so it seems all I would need would be to get the 14 bolt spindles and then get a 35 Spline shaft fit at the correct length to the newly shortened axle housing. But, what about where the leaf springs mount to the axle houseing. Is this simply just ground off then rewelded to a new position?

CRASH said:
I don't like late model Dodge stuff because of the lack of steering options. No true high steer available for those hub assemblies, though Tera may have something in the works or complete (see PaulS's threads in Adv Fab).
Click to expand...
To be honest I am not too concerned about adapting it to a Hy-Steer. I like the crossover fine and I already have an idea how to adapt a hydraulic ram to it. (but, maybe the inverted-Y is just as easy to use a hydraulic ram on for steering, I am just unfamiliar with it on that steering.)


CRASH said:
Oh, and of course, there is the T-case issue with the early Dodge passenger drop axles. Unless cutting up your XJ's floor pan is not an issue. But gawd, I wouldn't do that for a cheesy 44. It would take a 60, at least.
Click to expand...
With fullsize axles, is the stock T-case even an option? Or is it almost mandatory for me to use the NP203 out of my trailduster?

I appreciate all of your insight. I am not born with this knowledge but wish I had been :read: :roll:
 
I would not be too concerned with the axle width issues. I am running full width's front and rear (hp44 and ford 60) and my tires dont stick out that far. I am running H2 wheels, so 17x9 with 5 inches of backspacing and 37x13.5 boggers, and the center of the tire lines up with the sheetmetal. It would be fairly easy to get flares to cover most of the tire, but I am not worried about it. http://cherokeechief.zoto.com/user/...1e455f3837ca-_CAT.14/average_rating-desc/0-30
http://cherokeechief.zoto.com/user/...0dca3d5774fb-_CAT.14/average_rating-desc/0-30
 
KAL_EL said:
...is the stock T-case even an option?
Click to expand...

The XJ diff is offset to the driver side, so your stock t-case will match that.

The dodge diff is offset to the passenger side - "pass drop" - so you'll need a transfer case that will put the front driveshaft to that side, to match.

Make sense?

Robert
 
85cherokeechief said:
I would not be too concerned with the axle width issues. I am running full width's front and rear (hp44 and ford 60) and my tires dont stick out that far. I am running H2 wheels, so 17x9 with 5 inches of backspacing and 37x13.5 boggers, and the center of the tire lines up with the sheetmetal. It would be fairly easy to get flares to cover most of the tire, but I am not worried about it. http://cherokeechief.zoto.com/user/image_detail/IMG.0.675251b6bbd2a560ba451e455f3837ca-_CAT.14/average_rating-desc/0-30
http://cherokeechief.zoto.com/user/image_detail/IMG.6.8492993ab53ed526e3670dca3d5774fb-_CAT.14/average_rating-desc/0-30
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pics.

I personally like that look and will probably do the same/similar. I dont think I will go thru the hassel of shortening but for a few inches. I am about 99% sure that to license it here I would need the flares. But like U said getting flares should be fairly easy. I could propably figure out a way to make them removable for quick offroadin'.

I_1BADXJ_I said:
The XJ diff is offset to the driver side, so your stock t-case will match that.

The dodge diff is offset to the passenger side - "pass drop" - so you'll need a transfer case that will put the front driveshaft to that side, to match.

Make sense?

Robert
Click to expand...

Yeah that makes sense.

Can the stock T-case handle the full size axles and bigger tires? I heard that the XJ t-case was Aluminum and that made me wonder about its strenght.

Thx
 
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