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Death wobble despite trying (almost) all solutions

Thanks all you folks who replied. It's clear that DW is a subject close to all Jeep owners' hearts, and also that there's a lot of wisdom and experience out there.

I ought to fill in a few more details if only to keep the discussion (if not my Jeep!) on track.

First, mine is a LHD US-spec vehicle. Long story, but I needed a LHD Jeep back in 1993 because I was going out to work in the Gulf and the UK dealers understandably had no LHD versions. So I bought it new from an importer in Belgium who supplied US Forces in Europe with tax-free vehicles, and I drove it out the Middle East (and back.... twice.... then took it to Africa and back).

So that's why now - back in Scotland - I browse the NAXJA Jeep forum, and I confess, one or two others. I still have the Jeep, because who in UK is going to want to buy an 18-year old second-hand LHD XJ? Getting some spare parts is a headache, but I think it is a great vehicle - and I have previously had a Range Rover and a Toyota Land Cruiser.

Back to the main issue. Regarding the tyres, I had all four balanced about 6-8 months ago (before the DW started getting nasty). Haven't done a lot of miles since then. I did change the backs to the fronts about 4 months ago to see if that would help, and because that's the normal thing to do. Didn't help. So this week I did the side-to-side swap at the front just to see if that made a difference. Also because my DW usually starts when the left-front wheel (remember I'm driving on the left side of the road) hits a manhole cover, pothole or uneven patch close to the kerb. So I wondered if there was a problem related to the tyre/wheel on that side.

Special thanks to heyhar for answering my idiot question. Definitely suggests I need to look very hard again at the joint and mounting at the chassis (frame) end of the track rod. We tend not to call that particular balljoint a Tie-Rod End, since we think of the tie rods and TREs as being those parts in the steering setup...

So looks like the next step is indeed the trackbar and steering damper, and hooray I think I have found a source in UK for a new LHD trackbar. At around £90 pounds sterling it's actually cheaper than the RHD/UK spec one!

Watch this space: after all this I shall definitely have to report back on what happens next. Thanks again to everyone for advice - what would I do without you?
 
Spot me a round trip ticket and I will have your DW fixed in a hurry.

Where are you located? I sent my daughter to school in Lester.
 
yardape said:
Go to Kevin's Offroad and even if you don't buy anything its pretty informative about death wobble and his kit did resolved mine. Like you I spent years being a purist trying to "fix" it. Unfortunately Jeeps are like people: some you can reason with and resolve matters while others you have to throw a blanket over and beat the crap out of. Without the steering rack, the wheels would flop around. Steering components are suppose to, among ather things, solidify the steering system. Sometimes it just doesn't. No one was suggesting I think replacing your stock trackbar with another. Kevin's bar is heavy duty and less prone to flexing. Furthermore, the bracket he sells with it is stouter than the original and drops the bar down farther providing better side to side resistance. The bar alone didn't fix the deathwobble but when I added the steering stabilizer the wobble was gone. It made me realize that after years of DW my stabilizer was probably toast. Yours may be too from the extra stress put on it. Until I got the kit I used to call it a patch too but the reality is that the kit provides resistance that prevents the wobble from starting in the first place. I still occasionally feel a tiny little pulse but its very minor and the kit keeps it from getting out of hand.

I should also say that this was on a ZJ not an XJ but its the same setup. Please know that I'm not affiliated with KOR or KOR products and there are plenty of offroad suppliers that I despise so I don't say all these things easily. I'm just saying that the kit seems to have put the wobble between a rock and a hard place so its got no where to go.
Click to expand...

I should also add that I bought Kevins' durometer bushings which replace the rubber ones in the trackbar for further wobble resistance. Its in total kind of pricey for what it is but I can't argue with success so all in all I'm very pleased.
 
Re: Death wobble - now seems incurable!

heyhar said:
... (As for the track bar....) Typically, the balljoint is toast long before the rubber bushing.

Please, with all the other stuff you've done, change the track bar and the damper. You owe it to yourself! Then report back.
Click to expand...

It's been a while, but I need to report back. I'd like to say it's good news.... but it isn't.

Following on from the list of other changes/replacement/checks, I have worked my way through the rest of the checklist.


  • had the alignment checked (again). All good.
  • replaced the track bar with a new OEM Jeep part. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old one or its mounting to the chassis. No play or wear in the balljoint. The mounting bracket at the chassis end is rock solid. The hole in that bracket (where the balljoint end is fixed) was not worn or ovalled at all. But all the same, we put the new track bar in.
  • replaced the steering damper. Old one seems OK: no leaks, and although possible to extend/compress it by hand, there is still quite a bit of resistance, so it clearly isn't shot - just perhaps a little tired after 130k miles. New one was quite a bit harder to compress/extend, so we fitted it.
  • checked the UJs. All good (both new within the past year).
  • checked the hubs and balljoints. All good, no unusual wear or slackness.
  • re-checked the wheel-bearings (just for the sake of completeness, and because that is anyway part of the annual roadworthiness test, which it passed already in January)
  • checked the steering box and links. No slackness, no movement, no sign that it had moved or come loose from its mounting on the chassis.
  • checked the driveshafts. No slackness or noise, splines all good.
  • rebalanced the wheels/tyres. Almost 100%. Very small (10-20gram) weights needed on each.
Then we did some test driving. The "death wobble" is still there, as fierce as ever. Hit a small undulation, a manhole cover, or a pothole at 55mph with the front left wheel, and the front axle tries to shake itself off the chassis. The wobble is HUGE, not just a gentle twitch or slight oscillation. Feels as if the front wheels are about to fall off, the front end of the Jeep wobbles all over the road, and the steering wheel shakes so badly it almost breaks your wrists. It really is very severe.

heyhar said:
Maybe the only way to truly cure DW, and other maladies which afflict the XJ, is to park it! Just kidding!
Click to expand...

heyhar - many a true word is spoken in jest, as Shakespeare said. But this is making me crazy. I've had the Jeep from new, I know its entire history, it has never had hard off-road use, it certainly has had no accident damage, in every other respect it is in A1 shape (no rust, engine runs like silk, all other mechanical elements are absolutely fine, interior even looks like new). But this DW is making the vehicle almost undriveable, and it scares the **** out of anyone who is not familiar with it.

I feel I have almost run out of solutions. My colleague and helper - who builds, maintains and repairs rally-cars as a profession - is equally baffled. The only front suspension components we have not changed are the coil springs.

What next? The problem has only become noticeable in the last 6 months/5k miles. It did not - so far as we recall - start suddenly (and the worn shockers, which were the first items we changed, had made the front a little floaty). But none of the considerable work we have done - as listed in my posts above - seems to have made any difference.

We are now trying to think out of the box. We have done nothing to the rear. Shocks and leaf springs are original, so they are 18 years and 130k miles old. The Jeep has not regularly carried heavy loads in the rear. The leaf springs are more or less horizontal (ie not curved upwards) but have been like that IIRC since the beginning: the Jeep seems to be sitting and riding at the correct height, not sagging at the back. It's a long shot, and seems illogical, but would tired suspension at the rear cause DW at the front?

Apart from that, I am stumped. Can anyone offer other ideas or solutions? It seems bizarre that this Jeep, which is otherwise in such good shape, should have become completely un-usable.
 
Re: Death wobble - is it the drive shaft(s)?

This is a post-script to what I've just written above. I'm still racking my brains and trying to think out-of-the-box, and something has just occurred to me. It's another long shot, but here goes.

I replaced the left-front UJ about a year ago... then the right one about six months later. We noticed that the right one was fractionally different. The replacement on the left had been a Precision UJ, p/n 365. That was the wrong size for the right, which needed a Precision UJ p/n 371.

This seemed a bit odd. Some online research revealed that the bearing cap diameter on the 365 (left) was 1.064", and on the 371 (right) was 1.188".

Dredging the memory, the explanation for this emerged. Some five years ago, in an unnamed foreign country, I had a power-steering problem, and the Jeep was "recovered" to a nearby workshop on a flat-bed trailer. The fool who winched it on to the trailer evidently hooked the winch into the right front drive shaft joint (the UJ housing), and bent or damaged the shaft. It had to be replaced.

Now this is where it gets interesting. Studying the parts catalogue years later, I noticed that there are different spec drive shafts for an XJ depending on whether it has ABS or not. The Jeep p/nos are as follows:

Right shaft without ABS 5252 584
with ABS (91) 5252 586
with ABS (92-3) 4713 188

Left shaft without ABS 5252 585
with ABS (91) 5252 587
with ABS (92-3) 4713 189

Simiilarly the UJ part numbers differ (corresponding to the different diameters of the Precision parts mentioned above, no doubt):

without ABS J812 6237
with ABS 4137 757


Clearly the shafts, and UJs, for the ABS version are slightly bigger and stronger.

My Jeep has no ABS. It looks however as if the replacement right-side drive shaft that was fitted some years ago must have been the one for an XJ with ABS - which is why it needed the larger-diameter replacement UJ.

The left and right drive-shafts of course are not a matching pair. They are of unequal length and weight anyway, as the diff is offset to the left. But if the shafts for an ABS Jeep are "bigger" or thicker, they are presumably heavier. Clearly the splines still fit into the diff, and into the hub at the outer (wheel) end.

SO, to the crunch. If my Jeep now has an "ABS" drive shaft on the longer (right) side, and the original "non-ABS" shaft on the left, (a) would the right-side ABS one be significantly heavier than the equivalent non-ABS one?
And (b) if so, would this cause Death Wobble when a wheel on one side hits a bump or pothole?

It isn't obvious that this would be the cause. Each of the drive shafts must - in itself - be balanced: if a shaft was itself unbalanced, bent or rotating off-centre, there would surely be a regular or constant vibration and/or noise. But, if the shaft on the right is fatter and heavier, would this be enough to provoke DW in certain circumstances?

I hope some experienced Jeep owners, techs or engineers might like to comment. If this is a probable or likely DW cause then I'll look for a new drive shaft. But it would be nice to have some expert advice that this is indeed a step worth taking - I'd hate to get a complete new (and correct, non-ABS) right drive shaft, and then discover it made no difference whatsoever!
 
If the problem started right after the axle shaft installation, I'd say you got a winner. But, I'm not getting the feeling that it did. I had experimented with the red urethane bushings in my '92, and although I liked the handling, the vibes weren't worth it. Now, even with all new OEM type parts, it's only at about 90% solid. Although, our '95 feels more solid than the '92, the two '96s are the tightest of all. Seems as though they got more solid as time went by. I'm wondering if the car body literally relaxes with age, and other stuff starts to happen?
 
Thanks for those thoughts, heyhar. It's quite hard to pin down exactly when the DW first showed itself. One of the difficulties is that it only appears when you hit a particular unevenness or hole in the road, and at a particular speed. Thinking back, the drive shaft was replaced in late 2005. For most of the next 2-3 years I was driving either round town, or on good-surfaced highways. So - nothing to set off DW.

During the last 2-3 years, after moving to Scotland, I have been driving on more minor roads, and less-even surfaces. I guess that as time passes the general handling gets a little more "saggy" and you don't really notice. I'd say that since about 9-12 months ago the front end was feeling increasingly loose (I now know that this was at least in part because the left front shock was worn out), and I'd get some shake when I hit bumps. But I'd say it was only very mild DW at most.

Thinking back, after the fitting of the pair of new Rancho front shocks and the replacement of all the bushes with poly ones, the general ride and handling was noticeably firmer. In theory that was to be expected, even welcome: no more floaty feeling from the tired front shocks. But I now think that precisely because the poly bushes are much harder, when the DW is triggered its effects are much more pronounced. Whereas before replacing the shocks and bushes there was a vagueness in the "wobble", now it is almost a hammering - a much more violent shake. It's as if the tired old rubber bushes and worn shocks absorbed the wobble to some extent. Now that I have firm shocks and hard bushes, the vibration, when it starts, is transmitted more directly and perhaps reinforced by the hardness of these suspension components. Almost like feedback from an audio mike, once the DW starts it feeds on itself and gets rapidly worse, as if the firm bushes etc are actually making the oscillation more severe.

All of which still doesn't answer the question - why and how does the DW start? If there is nothing loose or maladjusted in the suspension or steering, all is firm and tight, then I am still puzzled as to what actually sets the DW going. I am really scraping the barrel now for ideas....
 
This is the most comprehensive write up I have seen on Death Wobble.
Please make sure to post the results when you achieve success. After reading all you have done to cure it, I'm sure you're going to track it down and I would like to know the answer.....
 
I didn't see, have you recently changed the offset of the wheels or tire size? Is there another XJ you can borrow the wheels and tires from nearby?

Different wheel offsets change the scrub radius which is a huge contributor to the wound up spring we call death wobble.
 
Don't think I saw a statement that the upper/lower ball joints were changed. I think you stated they were "checked". At this point, in your "saga", I'd change them out. Out of tolerance ball joints are a cause of "death wobble".
 
So I have a different Case of DW when Im doing 50 and hit a bump my stick starts bouncing around (5spd) and my tranny mount is like 1.5 years old lil cracked not sagging at this time pryed at it with a crowbar not alot of movement.My front end is tight new ball Joints tre and bushings trac-bar and brakets all good ? but it does shake like a paint shaker when I hit bumps has anybody had issues like this.
 
JJacobs said:
I didn't see, have you recently changed the offset of the wheels or tire size? Is there another XJ you can borrow the wheels and tires from nearby?

Different wheel offsets change the scrub radius which is a huge contributor to the wound up spring we call death wobble.
Click to expand...

Just to answer the question - nope, the wheels are original stock steel wheels, the tyres are standard, the suspension is stock (no lift or mods). As mentioned earlier, the OE tyres were Goodyear, I then ran a set of Toyos. The current ones are Michelin Synchros, highway tread not mud & snow, and they have done about 8-10k miles in 4 years. No sign of uneven or irregular wear, and I verified all the alignment settings three weeks ago. Checked and adjusted the wheel-balance yesterday.

So fundamentally, no change in tyre size or spec in the 18 years I've owned the Jeep. I find it near-impossible to believe that the tyres/wheels are the source or cause of the problem.
 
xjbubba said:
Don't think I saw a statement that the upper/lower ball joints were changed. I think you stated they were "checked". At this point, in your "saga", I'd change them out. Out of tolerance ball joints are a cause of "death wobble".
Click to expand...

No, ball joints have not been changed. Given that Jeep spares are difficult to source in UK and very expensive, I'm trying quite hard not to throw parts at this on a "suck it and see" basis. It's one thing to replace worn shocks and elderly rubber bushings - that's more or less normal at 130k miles. I then took a deep breath and changed both the steering damper and track bar in view of the considerable evidence that these could be likely sources of the problem. It turned out that the originals of both were actually still good, but I changed them anyway. Made zero difference except to my wallet and my patience.

The ball joints are well within tolerance and still sound - we had the complete hub assemblies/knuckles out on the bench to check every element. It's true that I'm p****d off enough to try almost anything, but I'd like to feel there was some clear connection between the DW and the parts I'm replacing. Changing out good ball joints seems to me not far off saying, "change the windscreen wipers.... maybe it's wind-resistance that's causing the DW".

What puzzles me even more is that new shocks, new bushings, and - especially - new steering damper and track bar, have had absolutely no effect on the frequency or severity of the DW. These are major suspension/steering components. Logically if any one of these (worn bushings, tired steering damper...) had been even partly responsible for contributing to DW, then a change in any one of them should have some consequence - eg on, say, the speed at which DW happens, or the intensity of the vibration. There may not be a single cause, or a single cure. But a change in one or more of the key parameters (shocker-rebound, bushing-resilience) should surely result in some change in the Jeep's behaviour? None of the numerous changes made so far has had any significant effect in reducing or influencing the DW. All I've got is a harder ride from the polyurethane bushes and a more severe 'hammering' when the DW strikes.

It would be good to have some feedback on the drive-shaft issue, since at least we know that there is a slight oddity there. The unanswered tech question is whether this could credibly cause DW.
 
Been there, done that, same scenario. LCA's solved it, bushings in them were junk. Did TB, all TRE's and a unit bearing. Still there. Put cheapie Qtec LCA's on and problem was gone. That was 4 yrs ago. Still fine. Get some LCA's
 
br1anstorm said:
No, ball joints have not been changed. ---- It's one thing to replace worn shocks and elderly rubber bushings - that's more or less normal at 130k miles. I then took a deep breath and changed both the steering damper and track bar in view of the considerable evidence that these could be likely sources of the problem. ---The ball joints are well within tolerance and still sound - we had the complete hub assemblies/knuckles out on the bench to check every element. It's true that I'm p****d off enough to try almost anything, but I'd like to feel there was some clear connection between the DW and the parts I'm replacing. Changing out good ball joints seems to me not far off saying, "change the windscreen wipers.... maybe it's wind-resistance that's causing the DW".---It would be good to have some feedback on the drive-shaft issue, since at least we know that there is a slight oddity there. The unanswered tech question is whether this could credibly cause DW.
Click to expand...

There is no evidence that a worn, even missing, steering damper will cause, or contribute to death wobble. Many people, including myself, do not have a steering dampener installed; it's really not needed, and if it appears to help, it's merely a "band aid", covering up the real culprit.

Not sure how you determined "the ball joints are well within tolerance", but I can tell you worn ball joints can cause, and are a major source of death wobble, as are worn track bar bushings/rod-ends, and worn tie-rod and steering linkage. At 130K miles, any and all of those front axle steering and control arm bushings are probably shot.

Neither front or rear drive shafts can cause death wobble. But, to satisfy yourself without spending money (that is if you are doing your own work), just remove the "suspect" shaft and go for a ride.
 
I've re-read this post, and I don't see evidence that you've gotten rid of those horrendous urethane bushings. I almost wish I lived close enough, I'd bring you some new OEMs and do them for you (I've gotten quite good at it!).

One trick to try is re-tighten the hell out of the control arm nuts and bolts. When I was experimenting with my red 'bushes' as you call 'em, I was on the phone with Daystar one day, and the tech explained that the sleeve in the bushing needs to be almost a sixteenth to an eigth of an inch shorter than the width of the urethane part, so as to compress the plastic as you crank the bolts and nuts to the point where the sleeve is tight. This will squash the urethane, as if making it bulge. Over time, the urethane will settle, losing the squash. The sleeve will probably remain tight, as it hasn't shrunk, but the urethane doesn't have the memory of rubber, and will start to settle.

Give 'em a good crank, or if you have the means, remove a bolt and take a look at one of the bushings, and see if the sleeve is flush with the side of the urethane, or still slightly indented. And, whatever you do, when you're cranking down suspension nuts and bolts, the weight of the car must be on them. lest you turn them into little springs of their own, exasperating the problem. Good luck, and report back!
 
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