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Dealer's price quotes for some typical XJ repairs....

bimmerjeeper

NAXJA Forum User
Location
USA
I brought my new 1998 XJ into the dealer b/c there is an airbag module recall.
(The new module did not fix the problem, as the horn/Cruise/Airbag light indicate bad clockspring, right?)

Anyway, while it was there, I gave them a list of the next few jobs I am thinking of trying next on my 1998 XJ.
I was curious what a dealer would charge. Good to know, I guess?
I have listed the total cost (labor, parts, and tax).
I also broke out the shop hours associated with each task.
1.5 hours on the starter seems to be the worst one.

I thought the forum might find this interesting and/or useful.
Any particularly good or bad estimates here?
Does anything strike you as noteworthy?

The list below is just a partial list of intended common fixes
They also found 2 new things I was not aware of (cracked exhaust and bad trackbar).

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For the record, I plan to try to DIY all these on my own except clockspring & exhaust manifold.
Is the clockspring doable for a "bolt-unbolt" caliber guy?
Is the exhaust manifold doable for a "bolt-unbolt" caliber guy? Is rust a massive issue on this project?
 
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$120/hr. The quoted price is everything (parts, labor, and tax). I included labor hours for discussion's sake.

One more thing, I didn't even know my exhaust manifold was cracked.
What exactly is bad about this? Poison fumes getting inside the car?
Does a small crack not matter as much as a large crack?
If it gets larger, will the XJ not run properly? (Right now, it idles/drives perfectly fine)
Bottom line, how urgent is this repair? (B/c I have a massive list ahead of me)
 
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My first thought is YIKES!!!

But I'm comparing those prices to what several of the jobs cost for me to do myself. I have a 2001, so the prices of parts and labor time should be the same as for your 1998.

I replaced the liftgate struts with Monroes from RockAuto for under $40 after shipping. One end just pops onto the ball, the other has small bolts -- almost took me longer to unbox than to install.

I replaced the valve cover gasket and that took me some serious time wiggling things into place. No need to remove any coolant hoses, but I was working against gravity, which is quite persistent. Note that while installing the valve cover gasket other parts will be discovered that need replacing too -- the rubber vacuum hoses and fittings were hard and cracked and leaking -- small stuff like that but it adds to the time and cost. The new Fel-pro valve cover gasket cost under $40 after tax at the local O'Reilly's. Due to the additional items found to be replaced, it took me 2 trips to the store and an afternoon to finish.

I replaced the front shocks with Rancho series 9000 adjustables for the same price you were quoted. You have the advantage that you don't have to do the labor, I have the advantage of adjustable shocks. BTW, it was a pretty easy job -- their time estimate is quite close to the time I spent doing it.

Heater Control Assembly (bulb is missing) -- Are you are talking about replacing the light bulb behind the controls? I've had that assembly out while working on other things and its really quite easy to pull out. I've not looked to see if the bulbs are replaceable or not, but it would take me less time to pull the assembly than look it up in the manual -- that's because I have the manual on the computer and it's pretty slow...

CKP -- I replaced mine a few weeks ago, and if you don't mind lying on your back and feeding about 2 feet of extensions to reach the 2 bolts, it's not a bad job. I had two problems: 1. unplugging the old sensor, and 2. holding the new one in place while I started the first bolt. Just be very careful to NOT drop the bolt through the opening into the bell housing!! I bought a genuine new Mopar CKS from We R Mopar wermopar.com, as well as the camshaft position sensor and oil pressure sender for $145.68 shipped. The camshaft position sensor is trivial to install, and so is the oil pressure sender. I replaced the oil pressure sender because I got tired of looking at the dash gauge's needle pointing to over 80psi.

Take this all with a grain of salt -- I am an old fart and use these wrenching sessions to learn the condition of my Jeep before I go out on cross country trips where a breakdown would be beyond inconvenient.
 
267 for a damn O2 sensor? Oh my. I think about 1 of those makes sense and thats the fluids in the cases. But jesus the rest. WOW.
 
Interesting since I bought 2 used jeeps, 85 and 87 the last 8 weeks for $450 and $500 each, LMAO!!!
 
While I wouldn't want to pay those kind of prices to repair my XJ.

I am sure I would have a difficult time writing a business plan based on those numbers.

Be glad, these numbers are why we are able to buy good XJ's for under $1k and why we can bust our butts all weekend working on the jeep and actually feel good about it.
 
Doing the repairs yourself is why we are able to drive these old HEEPS. During the course of owning any vehicle, just about everything on the list will have to be done. Imagine paying a professional to do most or all of them, many more than once or twice. I've often wondered how long it would take to earn the money to pay for a repair, versus buying the part, possibly some specific tool, and spending the time to do it, provided you do it correctly and safely. That 6800 bucks seems steep, and just about all of us have done just about all of those repairs on just about every vehicle we've owned. I look at it as spending the thousand or so bucks for the parts, and looking at the time I haven't had to work a job to earn the money to buy the labor. I'm not knocking those of us who earn their living under a car...I'm probably a frustrated mechanic. But, I remember a shop in my neighborhood when I got my first car, and we took our cars there for state inspection. The mechanics were in their early forties, and both were eaten up with arthritis from the concrete floors. Not a place I wanted to go! At another shop in the neighborhood, one of the mechanics took a friend and me aside, and told us to try repairs ourselves, and give him a call if we got stuck. "And if you screw it up, I have a tow truck." A real confidence builder.

My son and I each have two XJs, and I'll bet we've got a few thousand bucks in tools, including air, a lift, press, welder, ability to paint, etc. Yeah, we have the interest, and thankfully the ability to tackle just about anything we need to do. Thankfully we're near the biggest U Pull It I've ever seen, and there's plenty of JEEPS in there, and they don't mind my Sawsall! I realize that people's inability to fix things is how mechanics feed their families, but my ability to fix stuff and keep more of my money has helped me feed mine. I just hope most people stay away from electrical work, and I'll continue to earn a living. And if I can keep fixin' the old rust buckets, I'll be able to keep more of it, too!

My son-in-law once came over, and saw my son and me replacing the d35 under his '96. "Why don't you just get a new one?" This after paying the dealer $1500 to fix the HID headlights in his Audi. Which sums it all up in one phrase...'If ya gotta ask, ya wouldn't understand'!
 
267 for a damn O2 sensor?
probably $147 for the sensor and 1 hour minimum labor

There are good reasons to pay somebody else to do this stuff, namely because you make more money while you're working than it costs to pay somebody else to do it. Another good reason is if you are afraid you'll make a mess of it and have to spend lots of time and money fixing your mistakes. Sometimes its worth making somebdoy else responsible for the warranty work. For the most part these cars are very easy to work on, and if you have ability, desire, and basic hand tools, then most of it can be done yourself. I have touched every bolt on my jeep, replaced both axles in the backyard, etc. But I still pay mechanics to change seals that require pulling the engine apart, just so I dont have to do it twice.
 
I replaced the valve cover gasket , but I was working against gravity, which is quite persistent.

Heater Control Assembly (bulb is missing) -- Are you are talking about replacing the light bulb behind the controls? I've had that assembly out while working on other things and its really quite easy to pull out. I've not looked to see if the bulbs are replaceable or not, but it would take me less time to pull the assembly than look it up in the manual -- that's because I have the manual on the computer and it's pretty slow...

CKP -- 1. unplugging the old sensor, and 2. holding the new one in place while I started the first bolt. Just be very careful to NOT drop the bolt through the opening into the bell housing!! I bought a genuine new Mopar CKS from We R Mopar wermopar.com, .

Would the VC be easier if you rigged some sort of "crane/pulley" to hang off the hood with bungee cords to help levitate the VC while you aligned it?

Yea, the 2 bulbs in the heater faceplate (3 knobs). There is no bulb socket anywhere. I wonder if heater bulbs was an option? I have no idea why the actual socket and bulb would be totally missing. Again, there is no bulb anywhere behind that faceplate. :bawl:

CKP sounds like a PITA for those 2 reasons you listed. I have taken over 1/2 hour to unplug a harness sometimes. If can HALT your project in its tracks. I can't stand this. I'm VERY afraid of F'ing something up and having to get it towed. Starting a bolt blind sounds like a nightmare. You started it with the extension bars, or can you get your arm in there? I KNOW I will drop mine, like you said. I don't know what this looks like, but can you place a bowl underneath the CPK area so you don't lose the bolt? If you drop it, what happens? Maybe this CPK is best left for the local indy (Not the dealer, don't worry)



HeyHar, I agree. This is more a hobby than anything. I like to learn new things. If I wanted to save money, I'd drive a 2013 Honda for $199 month. I will be into this Jeep for $8000 before I am done, and that's to keep a 100% bone stock XJ. With mods, this is a $10,000+ hobby, even if you start with a free XJ.

probably $147 for the sensor and 1 hour minimum labor

There are good reasons to pay somebody else to do this stuff, namely because you make more money while you're working than it costs to pay somebody else to do it. Another good reason is if you are afraid you'll make a mess of it and have to spend lots of time and money fixing your mistakes. Sometimes its worth making somebdoy else responsible for the warranty work. For the most part these cars are very easy to work on, and if you have ability, desire, and basic hand tools, then most of it can be done yourself. I have touched every bolt on my jeep, replaced both axles in the backyard, etc. But I still pay mechanics to change seals that require pulling the engine apart, just so I dont have to do it twice.

100% agree. For a beginner guy, even a "small" job, it can take 10-20 hours of reading, ordering parts, and 5-10 hours to do a 1-2 hour job. 40 hours at $10/hr is $400. Cheaper to have a mechanic do it. At $50/hr, that's $2000 in lost wages. At $100/hr, that's $4000 in lost wages. If one wants to save money, he is better off working and never picking up a wrench. For me, this is a hobby with a massive time opportunity cost component. A total luxury because I have time and money to spare. Like golfing or piano. It may appear to save money, but when you factor in the massive time suck (even just being on these forums), it's an expensive hobby, at least while you're learning.
 
the only thing I would pay for in that list is manifold replacement. and thats because it's a PITA and if you rbreak a stud or something you'll need the tools to extract it.

The rest of that stuff is easy to do in a weekend or two in your driveway.

I did the radiator in a campground in an afternoon. I know several people that have done a radiator in a parts store parking lot.


the valve cover is cake. i't not heavy, as long as you have all the other stuff out of the way it just drops onto the studs and you tighten the bolts.

The CPS is a PITA to get at, it's made easier if you drop the trans crossmember, supported with a floorjack, so you can angle the drivetrain down. It makes it much easier to get in there, but again, I've seen them done laying in the mud during the wintertime in a campground. Some heavy grease in the socket or even some bubblegum goes a long way towrds keeping the bolt in the socket and not in the bellhousing. Even if you drop it you can almost always get it back out through the inspection cover by turning the motor over by hand with a breaker bar @ the crank.
 
Would the VC be easier if you rigged some sort of "crane/pulley" to hang off the hood with bungee cords to help levitate the VC while you aligned it?
The problem was trying to wriggle it up and out -- the back corner wanted to drop back down into position. It's not heavy, it's just the matter of getting yourself positioned at about the oil fill opening, balancing it, and wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. The back end is really tight against the firewall and tends to hang up on the wiring harness and vacuum lines, at which point it twitches out of your hands and drops into position again and you get to start all over. It really only took a few minutes, but when you're thinking "all I have to do is lift it up and out" that several minutes of frustration seems forever.

Yea, the 2 bulbs in the heater faceplate (3 knobs). There is no bulb socket anywhere. I wonder if heater bulbs was an option? I have no idea why the actual socket and bulb would be totally missing. Again, there is no bulb anywhere behind that faceplate. :bawl:
I'll have to take a look at mine the next time I have that out, which will be soon because the temperature control is flaky.

CKP sounds like a PITA for those 2 reasons you listed. I have taken over 1/2 hour to unplug a harness sometimes. If can HALT your project in its tracks. I can't stand this. I'm VERY afraid of F'ing something up and having to get it towed. Starting a bolt blind sounds like a nightmare. You started it with the extension bars, or can you get your arm in there? I KNOW I will drop mine, like you said. I don't know what this looks like, but can you place a bowl underneath the CPK area so you don't lose the bolt? If you drop it, what happens? Maybe this CPK is best left for the local indy (Not the dealer, don't worry)
Yeah, that 1/2 hour to unplug a harness can be a real bummer. As for the rest of it, though I am a guy, I'm not beefy, and found it possible to snake my left hand up to the bolt holes to position the bolts. But at that point I only had my fingertips up there and couldn't turn them -- for that I needed the long extensions on the socket wrench.

I didn't drop the transmission, disconnect the front drive shaft, or anything like that.

As others have said, it's possible to retrieve a bolt dropped into the bellhousing, but it adds time and complexity to an otherwise fairly simple job -- we don't want to do that!

HeyHar, I agree. This is more a hobby than anything. I like to learn new things. If I wanted to save money, I'd drive a 2013 Honda for $199 month. I will be into this Jeep for $8000 before I am done, and that's to keep a 100% bone stock XJ. With mods, this is a $10,000+ hobby, even if you start with a free XJ.
Partially a hobby, but for me I also need to know the condition of the vehicles I drive. I finally got tired of having to replace bunged-up wheel studs after the "professionals" messed them up while rotating tires, the dealer service department stripping the oil drain plug hole (they're the only ones who had ever touched it) and then wanting full price for replacing the pan (my wife's car -- if they had tried that on me they wouldn't have gotten very far), and so on. Oh yeah, the brake light in the rear window of my wife's car went out, she took it to the dealer and the guy started to remove the trim strip in the window molding so he could remove the rear window!


100% agree. For a beginner guy, even a "small" job, it can take 10-20 hours of reading, ordering parts, and 5-10 hours to do a 1-2 hour job. 40 hours at $10/hr is $400. Cheaper to have a mechanic do it. At $50/hr, that's $2000 in lost wages. At $100/hr, that's $4000 in lost wages. If one wants to save money, he is better off working and never picking up a wrench. For me, this is a hobby with a massive time opportunity cost component. A total luxury because I have time and money to spare. Like golfing or piano. It may appear to save money, but when you factor in the massive time suck (even just being on these forums), it's an expensive hobby, at least while you're learning.
Yes, sometimes a lot of time is spent in research just getting up to speed. But then you know, and even if you decide not to do it yourself, you know how it should be done. I had a favorite mechanic until I had him replace the power steering high pressure line. He used good line, did a pretty job, but he dressed it incorrectly so that it would rub on the fender well every time the engine moved a bit. Fortunately I saw that when I picked up the car and had him re-route the line to it's proper position before I even turned on the engine.

As for the cost vs working and paying out of your wages, I have three comments. One is that you pay with after-tax money -- if you are earning $100/hr, that means your income is $200,000/year, and you are probably paying a marginal income tax rate of over 25%. So you have to earn over $125 to pay a $100 bill. The second is that I often can do the work in less time than it takes me to take the car to the shop, come home, then go pick it up and come home again. The third is I work during work hours, and wrench at other times when I'm not making $100+/hr.

Finally, it's not as if the Jeep needs working on all the time -- I usually schedule my work so it happens when I change the oil every 3 months.
 
$441 to swap out a window regulator... That takes maybe half an hour. That's insane.

$300 to change a valve cover gasket. Holy crap. Again, half an hour.

Maybe I'm just cheap.

This is why I do all my own work...
 
Having owned old cars all my life, you quickly learn to have a back-up vehicle available. Since I was seventeen, I had a daily driver, and usually was working on the 'next' driver. Yeah, I would have saved time having something newer and more reliable, but not having payments, or hitting the savings meant that there were other places to use the funds that would have gone to transportation. We didn't get a new car, or have a real car payment, until 1998, when we bought a new Grand Cherokee. By the time it was paid off, I couldn't wait to see it go! We took a beating on it, and it was all stupid stuff going wrong with it. Traded it on a new Outback, which has had only one deal-breaker problem, but we still have it nine years later, and is still the 'go-to' good car. My two XJs have each had deal-breaker problems, but with the time, equipment, and facilities to deal with them, it's not such a hassle. I expect that a twenty-one and seventeen year-old car are going to have issues-lately mostly rust-repair problems, but every month that they behave is another $350-400 that I get to keep. It's nice having a back-up vehicle, and I realize that it can't work for everyone, but it works for us, and we don't have the kind of down-time that someone with only one newer vehicle will have from time to time. The Subie was down for a week getting new head gaskets (the learning curve is steep on an all aluminum engine!), so my wife took my '92 to work. And all the customers at the bank wanted to know who had the beautiful new Jeep in the parking lot!

It's a mixed bag doing repairs on your own, but I'm grateful that we can do these sorts of things. I've probably spent a kings ransom on tools and equipment, but now other than time, it's all good, and I'm not paying someone to over-torque my lug nuts. It happened last week, getting new tires...Now I'm starting to ramble.
 
Last summer I had to replace the rocker panels on both sides of my '96-inners and outers. Whole front clip had to come off, to remove the fenders, all four doors, and most of the interior, to get to the salvageable floors. About a month of puttering around on it, and probably about $600 between parts and paint. But, I look at it as about two monthly payments worth of cash. Probably the hardest part to swallow was about $60 for the half-pint of Sandstone Pearlcoat, to maintain the Country theme.
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$120/hr. The quoted price is everything (parts, labor, and tax). I included labor hours for discussion's sake.

For those of you who have not run a repair shop, you cannot imagine the costs and headaches associated with rents, utilities, insurance, book keeping, the various services and all the rules and regulations that pertain to repair shops, not to mention labor and personnel handling costs.
Be glad you have the skills to do your own work and remember you do not have the overhead costs that a professional shop has. All of your time is considered to be 'free', including the time spent researching, ordering, chasing, returning and redoing the screw ups. Many (most?) repairs and modifications end up using several times more the estimated time (and money).
Also keep in mind that few auto mechanics or private shop owners get rich doing this stuff.
 
Also keep in mind that few auto mechanics or private shop owners get rich doing this stuff.

I see what an electrical contractor gets paid when I do a job, and I also see what I get paid. Most of us are happy just to tread water! Although, I enjoy having a rather presentable (if old) vehicle that didn't cost a king's ransom. Certainly the time will come, when I'm too old and cranky to hang yet another muffler, and when that time comes, I just hope all the money I think I've saved through the years will ease the transition to letting someone do what I choose not to. I've enjoyed the challenge through the years, but the third and fourth time doing a task gets old.
 
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