clutch slipping and grinding converting to hyd. in a 59 willys

[blondejoncherokee]

had a goofy hydraulic set up when i got this CJ last year. i recently put in a new clutch disc, and had the flywheel resurfaced, and the pressure checked out. i then made a bracket for a new 1980 slave cylinder and got rid of the old goofy one coming through the floor boards .

t90, dana 18, ford 2.9 v6,and a warn OD recently installed by me, external slave

the old master cylinder is on, and most likely is too short since the old slave had much less linear travel, plus the bore could be off.
so my for that is that i just ordered the matching master for the 1980 CJ5 so i am sure i have the same bore and same linear travel. this should help with pedal travel issues (maybe the master being too short and wrong bore possibly is causing the master to max out before the slave?)

i also made my own pushrod set up using some of the older parts like the POs fork to the lever.

im looking for opinions and input.
issue #1:
grinding when shifting - novak says to match slave to master and check for air. im not getting anymore air, so im hoping the matching master will help with this or fix it. another site said too much pedal travel can cause this.

issue #2:
slippage- when i shove(force it into gear while running- it shifts fine when motor is off) the thing into gear through the grinding itll rev up real high but go nowhere. sounds like slippage. im hoping i can hone in the adjustment better and probably move the slave closer and shorten the pushrod to prevent any binding.

what do you guys think? this is my first time with clutches/ playing with slave cylinders, and trying to dial in a clutch master/slave setup.
anyone have any advice for things to consider?
ill post some pics up to help.

novaks site:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/clutches_etc.htm

 

[FunkRider]

Sounds like the slave does not have enough travel. It's putting pressure on the clutch with your foot off the pedal and not pushing on the pressure plate enough to fully disengage the clutch. Hopefully you have not put hot spots on the pressure plate or flywheel yet from the clutch slippage.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

Sounds like the slave does not have enough travel. It's putting pressure on the clutch with your foot off the pedal and not pushing on the pressure plate enough to fully disengage the clutch. Hopefully you have not put hot spots on the pressure plate or flywheel yet from the clutch slippage.

thats sounds like it could easily be the problem.
i know the pedal now hits the floor before the pushrod from the slave goes all the way out. so my guess is this, the pushrod is too long and the master isnt allowing the slave cylinder to push the slave cylinder all the way.
solution:
shorten pushrod (so its not pushing in on the pressure plate with foot off the pedal) and install the new master( and so the pushrod can go further in without the pedal hitting the floor) that should not bottom out on the floor before the slave cylinder fully disengages the clutch and that should solve both problems hopefully.

is there another way to somehow stop the pressure on the pressure plate with foot off the pedal and also allow the pressure plate to be pressed fully in when shifting ?

 

[FunkRider]

You might need to adjust the clutch master bore size. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/brake1.htm

 

[blondejoncherokee]

i installed the proper master tonight after bench bleeding. then bled the system at the slave
. the thing still wont shift into gears when running. it grinds like crazy and i wont try to force it anymore.

when i put the t case in neutral it shifts just fine though.
i threaded the pushrod more coming out of the slave all the way in. im probably going to try to hack it down and see if getting it shorter helps. but that seems weird since maybe it needs to be longer to get the clutch to fully disengage.

other things:
i added the WARN OD to the back of the tcase right before i did this slave swap anyone think that could be doing anything if it was messed up?

one friend brought up that i might have installed the clutch disc on backwards?
anyone think that would cause these symptoms?


im stumped right now.

ill bleed the system more and try adjusting the pushrod at the slave further out to see if i need the clutch to disengage more.

if that doesnt do it, i wonder if removing the OD from the dana 18 will do it?

 

[blondejoncherokee]

so i did some more research. i know for a fact that i have no clutch pedal free travel, its actually always in about 1/4". so i need about 1" of free travel. the push rod is too long. im going to but down the rod going from the pedal to the master, (its 2 pieces, one part that came with the master, one part is from the old rod.)
they say itll always have the release bearing on the pressure plate, and it will never fully engage the clutch either.

that sounds exactly like my problem.

http://www.42fordgpw.com/freeplay.html


So If the clutch isn’t fully bled and there is air in the system, then it wont fully disengage,
And if there is not enough pedal travel it will never engage since there will always be the release bearing on the pressure plate.

 

[blondejoncherokee]

gravity bled the clutch system tonight, that was actually fine, no air.
took off the overdrive to take that out of the picture and put the dana 18 back to normal.
took off the top of the tranny an checked out the shift forks for fun, all is well there.
shortened the pushrod at the pedal to make sure there was enough free travel an to make sure the throwout bearing isnt always engaged.

the thing still grinds and wont shift.

the pedal feel is crappy. i think the pedal rod setup i have is pretty goofy an might be causing some binding, although the slave goes out when the pedal goes in.

there is no spring on the clutch pedal though. never had one. i wonder if this would cause issues other than maybe wearing out the throwout bearing early?

also reading some of novaks stuff im wondering two things:

clutch disc is on backwards
or
binding somewhere.
or
i screwed up the new master or slave already
or
i have one of the pushrods too long at the pedal or the slave