Border Patrol Agents Vote: - NO CONFIDENCE

joe_peters

joe_peters

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Re: Border Patrol Agenst Vote NO CONFIDENCE

I was confused. I read that as "Border patrol against vote NO CONFIDENCE"
 
Re: Border Patrol Agents Vote NO CONFIDENCE

nw-xj-scott said:
I was confused. I read that as "Border patrol against vote NO CONFIDENCE"
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LOL! Typing faster than my brain--Border Patrol Agents Vote NO CONFIDENCE.
 
Re: Border Patrol Agenst Vote NO CONFIDENCE

copied to my facebook... this info needs to be further spread
 
The majority of ICE ERO Officers are prohibited from making street arrests or enforcing United States immigration laws outside of the institutional (jail) setting.
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Ah, so that's why the Feds are so steamed at Arizona.
 
People will howl loudly if the Police are able to just walk up and ask for your ID, and detain you if you don't have it. It smacks of Nazism. There were certain freedoms our Fathers, Uncles, Friends and Neighbors fought for, one of them is undue search and seizure, right down to the personal level.

But does that apply to non-citizens? And how do you tell the difference between a citizen and a non-citizen?

Given that, even at the local level, there is a lot of pressure being brought to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration.

A few months ago, the Madison City Council wrote up and signed a recommendation to the Dane County Sheriff to have his department stop sending any info to ICE. He stood by his policy. Milwaukee's Sheriff came under the same scrutiny, and his response was the same.

IMO, if you are here on a visa, or a Green card, or simply here illegally; if you break the law, we don't need you here filling up our jails.

Ron
 
Zuki-Ron said:
People will howl loudly if the Police are able to just walk up and ask for your ID, and detain you if you don't have it. It smacks of Nazism.
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If you would bother to read the law, it clearly states that you have to have been stopped with probable cause for some violation of the law. It states it many times thoughout the legislation. Right now, if you violate the law and can't show identification, they have the right to detain you anyway until they can prove who you are.
 
Zuki-Ron said:
Tom, it would be better if you assume that I have read the law, understand it, and am keeping fairly current on the subject.

Ron
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And what happens when we assume? Makes an A** out of U and ME!

Federal law requires that non-citizens traveling within the borders of the United States of America carry their papers with them at ALL TIMES. That includes legal permanent residents, foreign students, tourists. If you are stopped in AZ for a legal reason, and you can't speak English clearly, or speak English with a foreign accent--including Canadians--then I don't have a problem with the LEO asking about their immigration status.

You can't name one country, other than the U.S., where even the citizens wander all over the place without carrying identification. No, I don't want to HAVE to carry my I.D., even though 90+ percent of the time I do anyway, but LEGAL immigrants living in this country had better get used to it, and ILLEGALS had better get used to the idea of going home.
 
And now we get down to it Joe.

Yes, Aliens are supposed to carry their papers. No one else is required to do so. That is the policy here. And aside from not speaking English well, there is no outward appearance that one person is a citizen and one is not.

The Article was NOT about AZ law or LEOs, it was about ICE Policy, and ICE Officers.

Their policy is NOT to do "Street Arrests". Well what IS a "street arrest" anyway? Isn't that where they look for Visa jumpers and Illegal Immigrants? How do they find them? Mind you. Jumping a Visa or coming to this country undocumented is a "crime" only in that if caught we send you back home.

So how do you find someone who is NOT in the system, and who has not been arrested by local law enforcement?

Well, you can't without going around and asking people for their papers.
People would cry "Civil Liberties" from the tallest buildings/
 
Zuki-Ron said:
And now we get down to it Joe.

Yes, Aliens are supposed to carry their papers. No one else is required to do so. That is the policy here. And aside from not speaking English well, there is no outward appearance that one person is a citizen and one is not.

The Article was NOT about AZ law or LEOs, it was about ICE Policy, and ICE Officers.

Their policy is NOT to do "Street Arrests". Well what IS a "street arrest" anyway? Isn't that where they look for Visa jumpers and Illegal Immigrants? How do they find them? Mind you. Jumping a Visa or coming to this country undocumented is a "crime" only in that if caught we send you back home.

So how do you find someone who is NOT in the system, and who has not been arrested by local law enforcement?

Well, you can't without going around and asking people for their papers.
People would cry "Civil Liberties" from the tallest buildings/
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Agreed 100%
 
Zuki-Ron said:
And now we get down to it Joe.

Yes, Aliens are supposed to carry their papers. No one else is required to do so. That is the policy here. And aside from not speaking English well, there is no outward appearance that one person is a citizen and one is not.

The Article was NOT about AZ law or LEOs, it was about ICE Policy, and ICE Officers.

Their policy is NOT to do "Street Arrests". Well what IS a "street arrest" anyway? Isn't that where they look for Visa jumpers and Illegal Immigrants? How do they find them? Mind you. Jumping a Visa or coming to this country undocumented is a "crime" only in that if caught we send you back home.

So how do you find someone who is NOT in the system, and who has not been arrested by local law enforcement?

Well, you can't without going around and asking people for their papers.
People would cry "Civil Liberties" from the tallest buildings/
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Oh NO! Not the cry of "Civil Liberties"!!!! What's next, the PC Waahmbulence?

Don't trample the sovereignty of my county with your desire for Political Correctness.

Overstaying ones Visa or entering the country illegally is a crime. In spite of Obama's bullcrap statement:

“If you are a Hispanic-American in Arizona, your great-grandparents may have been there before Arizona was even a state. But now suddenly, if you don’t have your papers and you took your kid out to get ice cream, you’re gonna be harassed. That’s something that could potentially happen. That’s not the right way to go.”

Got any facts to back this up?? Incidents of detaining US citizens purely based on color or assumed ethenicity??


Oh, the bitter-sweet irony.......

CENTENNIAL, Colo. — An illegal immigrant was convicted Tuesday in a crash that killed three people, including a 3-year-old boy inside an ice cream shop. Jurors found Francis Hernandez, 25, of Guatemala guilty of vehicular homicide and other charges.”

The case sparked calls for immigration reform after Hernandez avoided deportation despite a dozen prior arrests in Colorado. Authorities said he used 12 aliases and two dates of birth to slip under the radar of immigration officials.

Now, for a step in the right direction.....seems so simple too. http://www.sodahead.com/united-stat...d-or-protecting-our-borders/question-1122477/
 
joe_peters said:
You can't name one country, other than the U.S., where even the citizens wander all over the place without carrying identification. No, I don't want to HAVE to carry my I.D., even though 90+ percent of the time I do anyway, but LEGAL immigrants living in this country had better get used to it, and ILLEGALS had better get used to the idea of going home.
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:worship:
 
Zuki-Ron said:
And now we get down to it Joe.

Yes, Aliens are supposed to carry their papers. No one else is required to do so. That is the policy here. And aside from not speaking English well, there is no outward appearance that one person is a citizen and one is not.

The Article was NOT about AZ law or LEOs, it was about ICE Policy, and ICE Officers.

Their policy is NOT to do "Street Arrests". Well what IS a "street arrest" anyway? Isn't that where they look for Visa jumpers and Illegal Immigrants? How do they find them? Mind you. Jumping a Visa or coming to this country undocumented is a "crime" only in that if caught we send you back home.

So how do you find someone who is NOT in the system, and who has not been arrested by local law enforcement?

Well, you can't without going around and asking people for their papers.
People would cry "Civil Liberties" from the tallest buildings/
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If the person hasn't been arrested, it would appear that ICE has no means of checking them. So be it. No one is trying to let police or ICE start stopping people on the streets asking for ID. The only time the person gets checked is when they either, a) have committed another crime and been locked up, or b) under the new laws being proposed and enacted by states, when the person has already been detained for a different reason. I'm not seeing where there's a problem.
Zuki-Ron said:
Tom, it would be better if you assume that I have read the law, understand it, and am keeping fairly current on the subject.

Oh, and Ron, being in this country illegally is a crime whether or not you get caught...

Ron
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It would be even better if you gave us reason to believe you had read and understood the law and were keeping current on it. Nowhere is the power granted to just stop someone on the street and ask for their papers.
 
Darky said:
... No one is trying to let police or ICE start stopping people on the streets asking for ID...
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If I read the Union's letter correctly, that is exactly what they want to do.
The letter indicates that it's members are upset because the only way they can check an ID is after the suspect has committed a crime and has been arrested. They want to return to doing "Street Arrests" of Illegal Immigrants. How can you do "Street Arrests" of an Illegal Immigrants without checking IDs? I don't think the Union has a leg to stand on there.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not Pro-Illegal Immigration. I am just stating what the policies are as I understand them.

Ron

Edit: Darky, As for you comment that said I should somehow give you an idea that I understand the issue. I guess that would apply to everyone in these discussions, yourself included. Maybe we should have a little disclaimer at the bottom of the post stating that you have followed and understand the material ;)
 
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Zuki-Ron said:
If I read the Union's letter correctly, that is exactly what they want to do.
The letter indicates that it's members are upset because the only way they can check an ID is after the suspect has committed a crime and has been arrested. They want to return to doing "Street Arrests" of Illegal Immigrants. How can you do "Street Arrests" of an Illegal Immigrants without checking IDs? I don't think the Union has a leg to stand on there.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not Pro-Illegal Immigration. I am just stating what the policies are as I understand them.

Ron

Edit: Darky, As for you comment that said I should somehow give you an idea that I understand the issue. I guess that would apply to everyone in these discussions, yourself included. Maybe we should have a little disclaimer at the bottom of the post stating that you have followed and understand the material ;)
Click to expand...

Under FEDERAL LAW, on the books as we discuss this, FEDERAL agents can stop ANYONE THEY WANT TO AND DEMAND TO SEE I.D. AND PROOF OF YOUR IMMIGRATION STATUS, so the Border Agents aren't asking for anything that isn't already there under existing federal law--they just are tired of being prevented from doing their lawful jobs BY ALL THE POLITICIANS THAT WANT AMNESTY AND OPEN BORDERS and have ordered them NOT TO ENFORCE EXISTING LAW.

JOHN MORTON, the famous ICE Director for NON-Enforcement, AG Holder, Obama, and the rest of the Internationale Progressive Socialist Peoples Party comrades, along with way to many RINOs.
 
joe_peters said:
Under FEDERAL LAW, on the books as we discuss this, FEDERAL agents can stop ANYONE THEY WANT TO AND DEMAND TO SEE I.D. AND PROOF OF YOUR IMMIGRATION STATUS, so the Border Agents aren't asking for anything that isn't already there under existing federal law--they just are tired of being prevented from doing their lawful jobs BY ALL THE POLITICIANS THAT WANT AMNESTY AND OPEN BORDERS and have ordered them NOT TO ENFORCE EXISTING LAW.

JOHN MORTON, the famous ICE Director for NON-Enforcement, AG Holder, Obama, and the rest of the Internationale Progressive Socialist Peoples Party comrades, along with way to many RINOs.
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Joe, you are going to have to find that. I don't believe a Federal, State, County, or City Enforcement Officer can just walk up to anyone and ask for an ID without probable cause. You have protections under the 4th Amendment against Search and Seizure, and that extends to the personal level.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'
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Ron
 
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