best self defense 9mm round

[5-90]

Thanks for the input guys.Can anyone say anything bad about the 147gr winchester JHP available at the local walmarts?
I've put a few of these through the barrel of my springfield without a malfunction......

I remember checking out the "regular" Winchester JHP in .45ACP - I just like the Silvertip better because it's a softer alloy. Softer alloy = greater expansion = greater energy transfer = greater probability of one-shot stop (but "Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.") I don't consider the "regular" JHP a "bad" round - I just think the Silvertip is "better." When you're considering self-defense, "better" is better than "good" any day.

 

[hanaxj87]

Best 9 mm 45ACP

My Glock 21 will hold 14 45 cal. 230 Grain

Thank you Austria
Nick

 

[Justpunchit]

124 gr.

Nice choice of weapon, that will be replacing my Glock 22 soon.

 

[JoesXJ]

Winchester Ranger T, 9mm or even better .45......

http://www.winchester.com/lawenforcement/testing/testing_t.aspx

9 mm on left, .45 on right

all 5 are .45

....do any of you remember the evil "BLACK TALON'S" back in the mid to late 90's??? Well these are just about the same thing, just not black.

 

[TJ Rat]

....do any of you remember the evil "BLACK TALON'S" back in the mid to late 90's??? Well these are just about the same thing, just not black.[/QUOTE]

I have a couple boxes of the Black Talon...bought before they were outlawed. It is an awesome looking hollowpoint.

tbburg, the 9mm is proven to not stop a man with 2 shots, let alone your claim of one shot. FBI learned that lesson the hardway. They no longer issue 9mm pistols for good reason. Elmer Keith wrote about the fallacy of the 9mm in the 1950's. Take a look at law enforcment, the military, etc. They all went to 9mm, and are all going back to at least a .40 caliber bullet.

 

[RichP]

Best 9mm or any round is the one you can put first shot between the eyes or in the throat. After that caliber does not matter. I carry a .45 gold cup.

 

[tbburg]

I have a couple boxes of the Black Talon...bought before they were outlawed. It is an awesome looking hollowpoint.

That's the stuff I use in my "house" mags. Still have a couple boxes of the "old" stuff.

tbburg, the 9mm is proven to not stop a man with 2 shots, let alone your claim of one shot. FBI learned that lesson the hardway. They no longer issue 9mm pistols for good reason. Elmer Keith wrote about the fallacy of the 9mm in the 1950's. Take a look at law enforcment, the military, etc. They all went to 9mm, and are all going back to at least a .40 caliber bullet.

please Please PLEASE PLEASEdon't start with me on the "9mm won't stop,... whatever.hasta
I don't care.
1) The "80-90% 1st shot stop" is what the manufacturers say, and they all pretty much say the same thing.
2) I don't own a 9, , never owned a 9, don't plan on buying a 9. I go from .22, to .45, with no stops in between
3) Most important: Let's READ the Original Post:

Lets keep this limited to 9mm please.
I'm looking for the best 9mm personal defense ammo for my springfield xd 9
:eyes:
I've heard speer gold dot mentioned before....any oppinions?
Currently I have 147gr winchester(wally world)hollow points but have been told that a lighter bullet has more velocity.

We can argue about the effectiveness of different caliber bullets, but he wants opinions on 9mm.

Winchester Ranger T, 9mm or even better .45......

....do any of you remember the evil "BLACK TALON'S" back in the mid to late 90's? Well these are just about the same thing, just not black.

Those do look amazingly like the old "talons" 'have to check those out!

 

[TJ Rat]

That's the stuff I use in my "house" mags. Still have a couple boxes of the "old" stuff.
please Please PLEASE PLEASEdon't start with me on the "9mm won't stop,... whatever.hasta
I don't care.
1) The "80-90% 1st shot stop" is what the manufacturers say, and they all pretty much say the same thing.
2) I don't own a 9, , never owned a 9, don't plan on buying a 9. I go from .22, to .45, with no stops in between
3) Most important: Let's READ the Original Post:
We can argue about the effectiveness of different caliber bullets, but he wants opinions on 9mm.
Those do look amazingly like the old "talons" 'have to check those out!

tbburg - False information such as what you have posted is what started the 9mm craze. Fortunately people in high places realized the value of a larger round.
I do agree that it does not matter what round you have or how many rounds you have, if you cannot hit the target all you are doing is wasting time.

This discussion does not belong in a Jeep forum.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

This discussion does not belong in a Jeep forum.

since this is in fact the NON-Tech and OFF-Topic portion of this forum. And a lot of people here enjoy shooting and target sports, I consider this thread very much on topic. But since you have deemed it inappropriate, what would you rather discuss, since of course we cannot talk about anything that is not jeep related? I am a little busy right now, can you send a message to the Mods asking them to delete this section of the forum.


Nominated, but when you send that PM can you ask them to delete the den as well, that section very rarely if ever is talking about jeeps as well.

 

[RichP]

The 380 and 9mm were mainly European rounds, a holdover from the gentile days of warfare where killing was not the goal, wounding was, similar to the scar the Germans used to hold for sabers. 100% of European law enforcement were armed with 7mm and 9mm kurtz [.380]. That was back in the good old days when criminals were not quite so violent and had the 'never take me alive' and 'suicide by cop' mindset they have now and terrorists who want to die and will take as many as possible with them. The main advantage of the 9mm is cost, both of the gun and the ammo.
I have 9's and 45's, I also reload, I find the 9mm and 380 very tedious to reload for but then I have big fingers, the 45 is much easier. Hence I tend to buy my smaller stuff and not reload it unless I am really bored and have nothing else to like pull my fingernails out or something I usually end up crunching my finger a dozen time when doing 380's in that texan turret press.

 

[TJ Rat]

since this is in fact the NON-Tech and OFF-Topic portion of this forum. And a lot of people here enjoy shooting and target sports, I consider this thread very much on topic. But since you have deemed it inappropriate, what would you rather discuss, since of course we cannot talk about anything that is not jeep related? I am a little busy right now, can you send a message to the Mods asking them to delete this section of the forum.


Nominated, but when you send that PM can you ask them to delete the den as well, that section very rarely if ever is talking about jeeps as well.

My bust, you are correct, this is the off topic section.
Lets discuss the service. You fly boys obviously couldn't do the combat flying right so the Marines had to create the Marine Air Wing to fly close combat support.:looser:

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

Bah, over penetration, transfer of energy. If you can put the round on target, I think a new hole (or 2 or 3) in someone will stop or at least slow someone from their original intentions. Personal defense isn’t about Killing your attacker it's about stopping them. I am going to stop for a 9mm in me (or through me) just as much as a .45 in me.

That said, I carry a .380, own a .45 as well and have shot my dad's .22, 9mm auto, .38/357 - 9mm convertible and his .380. I wouldn’t want to be on the other end of any of the rounds personally

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

My bust, you are correct, this is the off topic section.
Lets discuss the service. You fly boys obviously couldn't do the combat flying right so the Marines had to create the Marine Air Wing to fly close combat support. I guess we will have to take the A-10's. F-16's, B-1's, F-15e's and predators back that have been supporting the Marines. Do you want the tanker support, or should we pull that as well? Maybe we should pull the Air Liaisons and let your strike accuracy go back to crap (my boss just did 3 years calling in strikes for the Marines in Afghanistan). :looser:

Actually it comes down to the Marines viewing Air as long range artillery at best. Outside your thought process to use it to do something other than to support infantry or other marines. Effectively using a $30mil jet to do the same thing as a piece of field artillery.

So have they come up with a reason for why the marine aviation unit felt the need to try to land a crippled jet in the middle of a neighborhood instead of punching out over the ocean? Not blaming the pilot, he stayed with the plane until around 400ft or so trying to minimize the crash, but why was a known bad aircraft still flying without repair? So far it is my understanding that he wanted to divert and was told to continue to Mirimar.

Interesting side note: As I am going through a Navy flight program, all te examples of poor decision making, as well as all the random new safety regs come from Marines screwing up.


Or, maybe just maybe, we could keep this thread dedicated to the crappy 9mm cartridge, and start another thread. To the other Marines on this board who are not raging with un-based inter service rivalry, have a nice day.

 

[kujito]

Personal defense isn’t about Killing your attacker it's about stopping them.

I beg to differ. If it comes down to the point of me squeezing the trigger, I'm going to kill you. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general I want every round to be fatal.

A 9 mm. is like a .45 set on stun. Real men don't use stun.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

I beg to differ. If it comes down to the point of me squeezing the trigger, I'm going to kill you. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general I want every round to be fatal.

A 9 mm. is like a .45 set on stun. Real men don't use stun.

Exactly, if you pick up a firearm with the intention of defense, you had better be shooting to kill. Having the mindset of only stopping someone is asking to die. I told my wife that if anyone is ever trying to break in after she has yelled at them to stop (most instances this would be enough) her first shot should hit the doorframe at head height, the second one should hit them in the head.

 

[SeansBlueXJ]

I beg to differ. If it comes down to the point of me squeezing the trigger, I'm going to kill you. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in general I want every round to be fatal.

Well I have read a few first hand accounts of civilians who were in a defensive shoot and baised off of their post event feelings, I would be more then happy with stopping you rather then killing you. Ill kill if that's what it takes to stop you, but I would rather not. just my $.02 on how I see it.

 

[wolfpackjeeper]

Well I have read a few first hand accounts of civilians who were in a defensive shoot and baised off of their post event feelings, I would be more then happy with stopping you rather then killing you. Ill kill if that's what it takes to stop you, but I would rather not. just my $.02 on how I see it.

by all means, no one reasonably wants to kill someone else. It is just a bad mindset to get into that you are stopping them. It can lead to hesitation, which will get you killed.

 

[kujito]

[QUOTE-SeansBlueCJ]Well I have read a few first hand accounts of civilians who were in a defensive shoot and baised off of their post event feelings, I would be more then happy with stopping you rather then killing you. Ill kill if that's what it takes to stop you, but I would rather not. just my $.02 on how I see it.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that I want to, or would feel good for having killed somebody. I would rather suffer the remorse, than be dead or worse. What if I don't kill said intruder and I live, but my wife does not?

Oh, and that post was not from my civilian side.

 

[ChevelleSSLS6]

9mm's are for girls anyways... get yourself a 40 or 45 haha j/k
:gee:

no, go for a SW model 500 :worship:

http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/monster_1103/

muahahahahahahaha!!! no wounded home intruder to sue me for shooting him... 'cause he won't be talkin. He'll be pushin dasies.

 

[outlander]

My girlfriends dad works at the local shooting range and let me shoot that 500 last weekend......beast!!!

The usual calibers were being fired(9mm,40,45) and when I let loose with the mag500 I heard a guy in the stall next to me say "Wow what the hell is he shooting"?
let loose with the second one and he said "damn its a hand cannon"!!!
The palm of my hand was sore for a day......

lmao!!!!