garr
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Nassau County NY
Did the problems begin after the shop serviced your transmission?
AW4 shifting hard
- Thread starter Felipe Tiago
- Start date
Did the problems begin after the shop serviced your transmission?
Felipe Tiago
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul
Wallmart here doesn't sell things like this, just motor oil in the best case scenario, most cars here have manual transmission. However, Dex III is usually available in parts stores in 1 liter bottles (about a quart) for the price you pay for a gallon in the USA, lol (still cheaper trying this than rebuilding the transmission!)
I looked for Trans-X on the auto parts websites here and couldn't find it, I also don't know nothing similar... maybe I could ask in a transmission shop.
No, I bought the jeep with this prolem (thought it was easy to solve
) and then I took it to the shop to change the fluid and clean the valve body... the old fluid was dark brown (the best one I've seen in the XJs I looked before buying this... I think people are affraid of changing the tranny fluid)
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Felipe Tiago
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul
I checked the fluid level once again: cold (engine off, overnight) and warm (engine running in neutral), the level is the same in both situations, half an inch above "max" level...
That has happened in the past but I was told it is difficult to get a good reading so I took it to the shop and ask them if it was necessary to drain some fluid, they said the level was OK and that I was getting a false level reading, arguing that the hard shifts weren't related to this. In the fluid change (flush) they charged me for about 8 quarts which I thought was the right amount.
that's why I didn't mention this before when I said "fluid level is ok".
Any chance I'm really getting a false reading?
Since I'm gonna do the drain and refill process (as you guys suggested), I think I will know if it's really overfilled when I drain it the first time... I confess I was affraid of draining fluid and ending up screwing things up because the shop said it was in the right level.
I've read this in other thread (so I didn't bother about my "same level" readings):
"That crosshatched zone on the 'stick is the "nominal full HOT" range - as long as you're in there, you'll be fine. "Full HOT" is a bit higher than "full COLD" due to fluid expansion - but "full COLD" is usually right around the bottom of the crosshatched area on the dipstick in most cases. So, it's entirely possible that HOT check and COLD check will both be in the crosshatched area - and they could, in fact, be the same level (even though HOT fluid will expand, you're still checking it with the transmission running and fluid circulating - so the volume you gain from fluid expansion may be made up for by the pump running and suchlike.)"
That has happened in the past but I was told it is difficult to get a good reading so I took it to the shop and ask them if it was necessary to drain some fluid, they said the level was OK and that I was getting a false level reading, arguing that the hard shifts weren't related to this. In the fluid change (flush) they charged me for about 8 quarts which I thought was the right amount.
that's why I didn't mention this before when I said "fluid level is ok".
Any chance I'm really getting a false reading?
Since I'm gonna do the drain and refill process (as you guys suggested), I think I will know if it's really overfilled when I drain it the first time... I confess I was affraid of draining fluid and ending up screwing things up because the shop said it was in the right level.
I've read this in other thread (so I didn't bother about my "same level" readings):
"That crosshatched zone on the 'stick is the "nominal full HOT" range - as long as you're in there, you'll be fine. "Full HOT" is a bit higher than "full COLD" due to fluid expansion - but "full COLD" is usually right around the bottom of the crosshatched area on the dipstick in most cases. So, it's entirely possible that HOT check and COLD check will both be in the crosshatched area - and they could, in fact, be the same level (even though HOT fluid will expand, you're still checking it with the transmission running and fluid circulating - so the volume you gain from fluid expansion may be made up for by the pump running and suchlike.)"
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Ecomike
NAXJA# 2091
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
See if they sell it online only for delivery in Brazil. These guys list shipping to Brazil and have the Trans-x.
http://www.amazon.com/Trans-X-Automatic-Transmission-Power-Steering/dp/B0002KKSBO
http://www.amazon.com/Trans-X-Automatic-Transmission-Power-Steering/dp/B0002KKSBO
Wallmart here doesn't sell things like this, just motor oil in the best case scenario, most cars here have manual transmission. However, Dex III is usually available in parts stores in 1 liter bottles (about a quart) for the price you pay for a gallon in the USA, lol (still cheaper trying this than rebuilding the transmission!)
I looked for Trans-X on the auto parts websites here and couldn't find it, I also don't know nothing similar... maybe I could ask in a transmission shop.
No, I bought the jeep with this prolem (thought it was easy to solve
Felipe Tiago
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul
Amazon and Wallmart websites say "this item can't be shipped to Brazil".
Found this one on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-W-402015-...:g:SMYAAOSwD0lUb5Jh&item=272226921822&vxp=mtr
Is this the same?
It's gonna cost me U$90 (stupid international shipping prices and taxes!)
Ecomike
NAXJA# 2091
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
Yes, but it is just a pint, not a quart. The Amazon link I listed goes to these guys who say they ship to Brazil on their website/amazon shipping details.
http://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=...rderID=&seller=ADG953YR6NRBF&tab=&vasStoreID=
https://www.google.com/search?q=Mid...a:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs
I suggest calling your local parts stores to see what they stock for cleaning transmissions that is like Trans-X. Before Trans-x old timers used solvent additives, maybe a little kerosene or lacquer thinner. Before Marvel mystery oil they used transmission fluid as an additive to engine oil to clean up used oil carbon and varnish in abused engines.
But if Dex 3 is so expensive not sure what to suggest.
Might be smarter to pull and soak, clean the valve body (by a service kit with gaskets or buy a ready to install rebuilt valve body) then put in known Dex-III. But they may have the same high costs there?
Sidewinder CC
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Canton, Michigan
Just FYI, the solenoids in your transmission are grounded thru the transmission body, which is grounded thru the engine, which is grounded to the battery at the coil attach studs (G101). There is no external ground 'near the transmission'.
The TCM is grounded at the coil attach studs.
Sidewinder CC
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Canton, Michigan
Some AW4 diagnostics. Delayed Upshift or Harsh Engagement?
Felipe Tiago
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul
Since a rebuilt valve body is virtually impossible to find here, I'm gonna try the drain and refill process with Dex III first. After that, if the problem persists, I'm gonna look for a transmission cleaner in the local parts stores..
As a last resource I'm gonna buy a valve body service kit... (I'm going to California in July and can bring one without paying import fees)
Is it always possible to rebuilt the valve body or sometimes it's so beaten that I will need to find another one?
Harsh in all gears (sometimes) and 1st to 2nd delayed in the first shift of the day...
This makes me believe the valve body is the culprit since it is listed as a cause for both of the problems in the chart you posted. I've been using this AW4 service manual to troubleshoot my problem.
garr
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Nassau County NY
Drain & add fill, drive a few hundred miles, Repeat, after 3-4 Drain/Fill cycles & I suspect your AW4 will start to shift smoothly again.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
Felipe Tiago
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul
I really hope so!
Ecomike
NAXJA# 2091
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
Sounds to me like gum and varnish sticking the valves/pistons in the valve body, and possibly old worn O'rings in those parts. I do not think the accumulator pistons can be reached with out taking the AW4 apart.
Since the transmission fluid was already changed, assuming it was Dex-III, I would try a transmission cleaning additive next. Drive it, let it run in all gears with the parking brake on for 30 minutes ( to avoid rough shifts that might do damage under driving load conditions), to dissolve the varnish/gum and then drain the fluid and replace it.
Also, draining it at the drain pan only gets about 1/4 of the fluid out. Using the transmission line that runs to the radiator or cooler, to drain it with the engine on, running in park (or neutral) will use the transmission pump to pump out as much fluid as possible so you get mostly new fluid in there. Otherwise it must be done 3-4 times, 2.5-3 quarts at a time to get most of the old/prior fluid out and diluted.
Since the transmission fluid was already changed, assuming it was Dex-III, I would try a transmission cleaning additive next. Drive it, let it run in all gears with the parking brake on for 30 minutes ( to avoid rough shifts that might do damage under driving load conditions), to dissolve the varnish/gum and then drain the fluid and replace it.
Also, draining it at the drain pan only gets about 1/4 of the fluid out. Using the transmission line that runs to the radiator or cooler, to drain it with the engine on, running in park (or neutral) will use the transmission pump to pump out as much fluid as possible so you get mostly new fluid in there. Otherwise it must be done 3-4 times, 2.5-3 quarts at a time to get most of the old/prior fluid out and diluted.
Ecomike
NAXJA# 2091
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
I have had good luck with that, but when it failed I had about 75% success using the Trans-X, and then doing it again on Fords, dodges, Jeep AW4s and Saturns the last 40 years.
Ecomike
NAXJA# 2091
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
Keep in mind Dex-III, while it is what our AW4s love, is not synthetic and under normal use is only good for 25,000 miles and most of our AW4s have been abused on that front and that causes varnish and gum to precipitate out and gum up the close tolerances on the valves in the valve body and makes them stick. Then add in hotter running engines and climates and 25,000 miles is too much. As I recall DEX-III was partly made from peanut oil, natural oil that does break down and polymerize (turns into varnish).
If they put synthetic in there it was more costly to the shop I would think. And it is a better solvent/cleaner than DEX-III I would think. I know the synthetic engine oils are better solvent/cleaners.
Any way, cost and availability will prevail in your decision I am sure, but that is the rest of the story as I know it.
If they put synthetic in there it was more costly to the shop I would think. And it is a better solvent/cleaner than DEX-III I would think. I know the synthetic engine oils are better solvent/cleaners.
Any way, cost and availability will prevail in your decision I am sure, but that is the rest of the story as I know it.
Felipe Tiago
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul
Ecomike, considering your last posts, I think it's a good idea to use a trasmission cleaner in the first place and change the fluid after that. That means to invert the order of steps to try to solve the problem:
- transmission cleaner
- fluid change a few times (Dex III for sure.. this will also be important to guarantee I know what fluid is in there)
- and if every previous attempt has failed, to take the trasmission apart and use a valve body service kit.
Tomorrow I'm gonna see what kind of transmisison cleaner I can find and to buy a few gallons of Dex III.
As soon I have news I report here.
For the time being, thanks for all your help guys!
- transmission cleaner
- fluid change a few times (Dex III for sure.. this will also be important to guarantee I know what fluid is in there)
- and if every previous attempt has failed, to take the trasmission apart and use a valve body service kit.
Tomorrow I'm gonna see what kind of transmisison cleaner I can find and to buy a few gallons of Dex III.
As soon I have news I report here.
For the time being, thanks for all your help guys!
Felipe Tiago
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul
I haven't done the trasmission cleaning and fluid change yet but it got worse!
Now I have a loud whining noise in gear or in neutral, the noise is RPM related and the transmission shifts hard or delayed only in the times the noise is present...
After it's warmed the noise comes away as well as the late shifts, and then the hard shifts only happen once in a while.
It sounds like a power drill and I think it comes from the torque converter area (or something in the front of the trasmission).
Now I have a loud whining noise in gear or in neutral, the noise is RPM related and the transmission shifts hard or delayed only in the times the noise is present...
After it's warmed the noise comes away as well as the late shifts, and then the hard shifts only happen once in a while.
It sounds like a power drill and I think it comes from the torque converter area (or something in the front of the trasmission).
garr
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Nassau County NY
Are you sure it's not the transfer case?
Any visible leaks? I would check its fluid level & condition, if the transmission fluid was dark I doubt the TC was ever taken care of.
Any visible leaks? I would check its fluid level & condition, if the transmission fluid was dark I doubt the TC was ever taken care of.
Felipe Tiago
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul
TC fluid is new, changed it last week... besides, the noise is present even with the transmission in neutral.
I was checking under the jeep earlier and I think that maybe the noise is comming from loosen bolts in the flex plate. At idle it is more like a tipical knocking crom those bolts and when I rev the engine above 3000 rpm they must be knocking faster sounding high pitched. I will tight the bolst when I get home to see it gets better.
Ecomike
NAXJA# 2091
- Location
- MilkyWay Galaxy
That sure sounds like a strong possibility.
"I was checking under the jeep earlier and I think that maybe the noise is comming from loosen bolts in the flex plate."
Also check the transmission fluid level, it may be low and will certainly cause the whine noise and rough shifts. The flex plate bolts would sounds like a tick or knock, chatter...
Sounds like 2 problems from your descriptions.
Check the harmonic balancer, on the front of the drive shaft, too while your at it. The rubber guts in it may be going bad causing a variety of weird noises.
"I was checking under the jeep earlier and I think that maybe the noise is comming from loosen bolts in the flex plate."
Also check the transmission fluid level, it may be low and will certainly cause the whine noise and rough shifts. The flex plate bolts would sounds like a tick or knock, chatter...
Sounds like 2 problems from your descriptions.
Check the harmonic balancer, on the front of the drive shaft, too while your at it. The rubber guts in it may be going bad causing a variety of weird noises.
Felipe Tiago
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Brazil, Rio Grande do Sul
"Sounds like 2 problems from your descriptions"
That's what I think too, but the whining can't be due to low fluid level since the fluid is kinda over the full mark.
Does the flex plate noise changes with RPM (due to more vibration)?
The whining noise is horroble and loud but only happens when cold, I can't describe it pretty well but it is like a "weeeeeeeEEEEEE!!!" followed by the clunk of the hard shift. Maybe I will make a video.
That's what I think too, but the whining can't be due to low fluid level since the fluid is kinda over the full mark.
Does the flex plate noise changes with RPM (due to more vibration)?
The whining noise is horroble and loud but only happens when cold, I can't describe it pretty well but it is like a "weeeeeeeEEEEEE!!!" followed by the clunk of the hard shift. Maybe I will make a video.
