Ar-15/m16-a2/m4

[Rebeldawg]

As to not jack anyones thread was wondering if anyone could answer this? The AR-15 civillian version of the M16-A2 fires in single burst and three-round burst classifying it as semi-auto? So is it still considered an automatic? I'm talking about before the ban was lifted allowing the sell of lower carriers with full auto.

 

[Yucca-Man]

See http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36415

The AR-15 doesn't fire 3-round burst. If it does, it's not a semi-auto and has been illegally modified

 

[Rebeldawg]

Gotcha, I'm the idiot of the hour!

 

[Eagle]

Jim's correct. The civilian AR-15 fires only in semi-automatic (single round) mode.

Military M-16s come in three flavors. The originals that I had in Vietnam offered either semi-auto or full-auto. Full-auto was a great way to waste a lot of ammo but a poor way to hit what you were shooting at. Later they changed the spec to offer either semi-auto or 3-round burst fire (also called "select fire"). Recently, although I've never seen one up close and personal, I've read that some units get either M-16s or M-4s (not sure which) that offer semi-auto, full-auto, AND select fire modes.

Anything other than single round semi-auto is considered a machine gun and requires a special permit stamp before you can purchase it.

 

[Rebeldawg]

So its not classed as an automatic rifle?

 

[Yucca-Man]

The AR-15 is not an automatic rifle. It looks like one unless you look closely at it. The selector on the M-16A2 (automatic, military rifle) has three positions: Safe, Semi (which acts just like a semi-auto weapon and is the ONLY way I ever learned to fire my M-16A2), and Burst, which produces a 3-round burst. This last characteristic is what makes the M-16A2 an automatic weapon.

AR-15s (do any owners have a close-up they can post of their selector?) have only a Safe and Semi option on the selector lever.

 

[Rebeldawg]

Yucca-man I understand what you are saying I just wanted to clear up what was stated in the modified tech thread that the AR-15 is not an automatic rifle. I have no experience with the AR-15, but used M-16's and M-4's in the army. It was stated that the AR was automatic and I did not think it was. Thanks for the help.

 

[Woody at work]

I don't think there was an M16 variant that had both the 3-rd burst and full auto capability. It was one or the other. When the A2 flavor came out, US Mil got the 3-shot mode, while the Canadians got full-auto. Both have the semi-auto mode.

The M4 is simply a short barrel/telescopic stock M16A2 (used to be called a CAR-15 -or AC556) but with a removable carry handle - the "flat top" upper reciever- that accepts different sight modules like the Trijicon ACOG...

 

[Eagle]

I don't think there was an M16 variant that had both the 3-rd burst and full auto capability. It was one or the other. When the A2 flavor came out, US Mil got the 3-shot mode, while the Canadians got full-auto. Both have the semi-auto mode.

As I said, I haven't seen one up close and personal. I don't remember if I read about the ones with two auto modes in a gun magazine or if it was on the AR-15 web site.

[Edit]Just looked on AR15.com and didn't find it. However, this might be of interest:
http://www.ar15.com/content/articles/history/evolution.html
[/Edit]

 

[Yucca-Man]

I don't think there was an M16 variant that had both the 3-rd burst and full auto capability. It was one or the other.

Woody - because the 3-round burst is not a semi-automatic function, and follows the cycle of operation of an automatic weapon it is classified as such. I think that was what you were referring to in your comment, right?

 

[Eagle]

Woody - because the 3-round burst is not a semi-automatic function, and follows the cycle of operation of an automatic weapon it is classified as such. I think that was what you were referring to in your comment, right?

No, he was referring to my post in which I said I thought I remembered reading about some models that offered BOTH 3-round burst mode AND full-auto mode (in addition to semi-auto and SAFE -- in other words, a 4-position selector switch).

 

[Yucca-Man]

Gotcha. I missed that after several re-reads.

 

[Woody at work]

From the horse's mouth... the M4 and M16 are available with EITHER full auto OR 3 shot burst (not both) and with EITHER fixed carry handle OR flat-top receiver/removable handle. Four distinctly different models of M4 and M16.

http://www.colt.com/mil/M16_2.asp

 

[fizassist]

There are some aftermarket kits that give you all 4 positions - Safe, Semi, Burst, Full. I think Tapco sells them as replacements for parts in a legally registered machine gun. According to federal law, MGs made and legally registered before 1986 may be sold to civilians. State laws vary.

Also, as a slight correction to an earlier post, "select fire" means capable of firing in either "semi-automatic" or "more-than-semi-automatic", where "more-than-semi-automatic" means either full-auto or burst (either way, the gun fires more than once per trigger pull). Either burst or full-auto is considered a machine gun by law. "select fire" is contrasted with either "semi-only", "burst-only", or "auto-only". There are some very simple machine guns that are full-auto-only and have no semi mode of operation.

As an aside, there are some crazy laws on the books. OH defines a semi rifle with a mag holding more than 30 (32?) to be a machine gun, even though it can't do burst or full-auto. Some states allow "full-auto-only" but not "select-fire" (which gives you the choice between semi and full!)

From the horse's mouth... the M4 and M16 are available with EITHER full auto OR 3 shot burst (not both) and with EITHER fixed carry handle OR flat-top receiver/removable handle. Four distinctly different models of M4 and M16.