A wall on the 49th parallel...

Beej

Beej

NAXJA Forum User
Location
The Wet Coast of BC
So the House of Representatives just amended a bill that includes an initiative to study the construction of a physical security wall along the US - Canada border.

So, what do y'all think of this? Pros and cons, considerations, yadda yadda yadda...

To start, I'm aware that there are some concerns about potential terrorist threats using Canada as a back door to gain entry into the US, but I have no idea how well founded they are.

My first question aside from feasibility is what's it gonna cost and who's gonna pay?

Next, what's it really going to accomplish?
 
You guys should be happy.

I think it's good against the terrorism, but bad for already fairly good relations in general.
 
Funny, but I guess I'm not too happy. I'm pretty proud of the world's longest undefended border. Its fun to joke about it, but I like being next to the States. You guys are by far our most alike neighbor or country for that matter. I don't know, there's just got to be a better way to fight terrorism...
 
Sure there is - empower the individual in his own defense.

As far as I'm concerned, the law ought to be "Carry what you want, when you want, and where you want - we're only going to bother you when you use it to make sure you used it right!"

Got a link for this "wall" thing?

5-90
 
Is this because terrorists find it easier to sneak across from Canada than from Mexico?

The level of genius at the legislative level is baffling...

Can't they just fess up to not liking canucks?

On the upside...

Maybe this will prevent another Celine Dion export
 
You really have to wonder whether it is to keep other people out, or the USA Americans in.
It really doesn't take much of a memory, to see the parallels to the old Soviet Union and what the US seems to be heading for.
For years, many of the politicians where deriding the godless Soviets.
For years the politicians were deriding the Soviet state, raising the next generation of youngsters, instead of the parents.
For years the politicians were deriding the Soviet union for locking there people in. The Soviets always said they were locking the decadent west out.
The list goes on and on.
What's the old saying, when you point a finger, there are three fingers pointing back at you.
The middle easterners also struck me as a little weird. They build 8-9 foot walls around there houses. I always wondered why. Maybe they have a tradition of petty thieves, they have to fence out. Spending your life looking at the inside of a wall, seems more than a little silly to me.
It really doesn't bring any security, it just blocks the fields of fire.
I do some fence and lock work. I always marvel at peoples preconceptions. Some people who live a really organized/sheltered lives, actually look at a four foot fence as protection and a barrier.
I once took down about a hundred yards of a 12 foot fence in half a day, so they could put up a 15 foot fence. In somebodies mind, 15 feet was more protection that 12 feet.. And it never dawned on them, I took down a 15 foot section every ten minutes or so. With hand tools, a pick up truck and a chain. I didn't destroy the fence either, I rolled it in sections, rather neatly. And resold it to someone, who thought it would offer protection.
I seriously think, whomever makes these decisions, should be required to prove they took, understood and passed a history course. Even recent history seems to escape them.
Terminal arrogance, is just as deadly, as terminal ignorance.
I once built a high security room, to a customers specifications. He was rather adamant about me following the plans exactly, made it pretty clear he wasn't interested in my input. He had specifications and directives to follow.
Typically when the room was finished, nobody could find the keys. I was inside in minutes and didn't destroy or disassemble anything that couldn't be fixed in minutes. Somebody designed the reinforced walls, so they only went as high as the drop ceiling.
What's next, mine fields between Mexico, Canada and the US? Silly people.
Just for point of reality, every night two or three hundred people make it throught the English channel tunnel. Or into the Spanish/moroccan enclaves over a double 15 foot fence, with razor wire on top. Covered by cameras and patroled by dogs.
Sure they are gonna secure a 2000 mile (or whatever) border. I think silly is a bit to mild of an adjective.
 
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I say 54'40 or fight.
 
old_man said:
I say 54'40 or fight.
Click to expand...
Hey! The 1846 Oregon Treaty still stands today...
ARTICLE I. From the point of the forty-ninth parallel of north latitude, where the boundary laid down in existing treaties and conventions between the United States and Great Britain terminates, the line of boundary between the territories of the United States and those of her Britannic Majesty shall be continued westward along the said forty-ninth parallel of north latitude to the middle of the channel which separates the continent from Vancouver's Island, and thence southerly through the middle of the said channel, and of Fuca's Straits, to the Pacific Ocean: Provided, however, That the navigation of the whole of the said channel and straits, south of the forty-ninth parallel of north latitude, remain free and open to both parties.

ARTICLE II. From the point at which the forty-ninth parallel of north latitude shall be found to intersect the great northern branch of the Columbia River, the navigation of the said branch shall be free and open to the Hudson's Bay Company, and to all British subjects trading with the same, to the point where the said branch meets the main stream of the Columbia, and thence down the said main stream to the ocean, with free access into and through the said river or rivers, it being understood that all the usual portages along the line thus described shall, in like manner, be free and open. In navigating the said river or rivers, British subjects, with their goods and produce, shall be treated on the same footing as citizens of the United States; it being, however, always understood that nothing in this article shall be construed as preventing, or intended to prevent, the government of the United States from making any regulations respecting the navigation of the said river or rivers not inconsistent with the present treaty.

ARTICLE III. In the future appropriation of the territory south of the forty-ninth parallel of north latitude, as provided in the first article of this treaty, the possessory rights of the Hudson's Bay Company, and of all British subjects who may be already in the occupation of land or other property lawfully acquired within the said territory, shall be respected...



You guys can deny me all you want, the fact is, a few generations ago, my family called the States home. Face it, I'm one of yours...
:D
 
Beej said:
My first question aside from feasibility is what's it gonna cost and who's gonna pay?
Click to expand...
I guess we will have to open up our southern border and hire a lot of fairly inexpensive labour :D
Anyways, I'd rather have the House of Representatives ponder building a wall rather then prohibition :cheers:
 
good, keep ya limey transplants out...





:D
In all seriousness though, I think its both a good and a bad idea. Good if it slows any terrorists, wasn't it said that the 9/11 hijackers came through Canada? Bad because its sure to cost a lot of money, we have good relations with Canada overall, even if they do follow our president around to protest him when he visits...;)

Mud, the difference between us and the Soviets is that even with the fences and such between us and Mexico, we can still leave whenever we want. There is nothing keeping us in.
 
Okie Terry said:
That reads like a liberal brainwashing.
Click to expand...
Really? Jeez, and I always thought the Star was pretty conservative...
:D
blacksport96 said:
Mud, the difference between us and the Soviets is that even with the fences and such between us and Mexico, we can still leave whenever we want. There is nothing keeping us in.
Click to expand...
YET!
 
BlackSport96 said:
good, keep ya limey transplants out...





:D
In all seriousness though, I think its both a good and a bad idea. Good if it slows any terrorists, wasn't it said that the 9/11 hijackers came through Canada? Bad because its sure to cost a lot of money, we have good relations with Canada overall, even if they do follow our president around to protest him when he visits...;)

Mud, the difference between us and the Soviets is that even with the fences and such between us and Mexico, we can still leave whenever we want. There is nothing keeping us in.
Click to expand...

The Soviets, always told there people the fences and mine fields, were there to keep the west out.
Who knows what the real agenda is. As soon as I hear a statement from a politician, I let my mind run wild. And the most far out thought, that pops into my mind, usually turns out to be closer to the truth, than what I was told.
I was back and forth across the iron curtain on numerous occasions. Sometimes I didn't even know, which side of the border I was on. Believe what you will, the truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.
I have a lot (I mean a bunch) of relatives in the border patrol. Sit around a Bar-B-Que sometime with them and listen.
Politicians making noise and directing attention in another direction. Usually to mask, something else, much more ominous.
They are gonna put up a fence to keep the terrorists out. But not stop or even slow down tourism.
There are something like 12,000,000 Muslims living in Germany. 1% (probable serious nut cases) is 120,000, that the last time I checked, didn't even need a visa to get in the states. Even if they weren't Muslim, the standard psychological bell curve, says 360,000 are psychopathic.
OK lets build a fence. Good idea, the little old ladies will sleep better at night.
 
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I've been across the border quite a few times, north and south...If you're crossing somewhere other than the middle of the desert (down here in the south) or whatever it is you have vast empty spaces of up north (I forgot, its been a while since living up there), its pretty easy to cross. Its that whole sneaking across thru the desert and dying halfway across thing that they don't like too much here
 
The US goverment doesn't want us to know about the REAL beer they have in Canada.

I really don't see the need. They have night vision and thermo camera every 1/4 mile. Ground listening devices, nuclear sencing equipment. Numerous airplanes that fly 24 hrs a day. You can't even drive on a border road without seeing a Border Patrol. They have a high tech wall, do they really need a physical wall? For it to do any good it would need to be 12 ft tall made of cement with razor wire on top. But then people would just tunnel, they already do.

If a terrorist wants across they are probably going to go through a border crossing. They stand a better chance there then trying to sneak pass all the cameras. That is how most of the drugs come in. If they can smuggle in 1000 lbs of pot they can get a 160lb terrorist through the border crossings. Or buy off a BP officer, they live in middle class, I am sure that a million dollars would get anything you wanted across.

Plus it would block my view of Grouse Mountain.

By the way Beej do you live below the 49th parallel(Victoria) Oh and stop dumping your sewage in my ocean :)
 
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