2000 Cherokee Sport Death Wobble Help

[burntkat]

Tires have to many imperfections and bulging to measure accurately from the side of the tire. Proper way would be to "scribe" the center of the tire!

Point well made. Personally I use a lumber crayon and color in a block on each tire with it on stands. Then rotate the tire as needed to measure.

 

[TDoggs]

I got the new upgraded tie rod today. That thing is a beast compared to the stock one.

Question. Would the pitman arm be pointing straight back when the wheels are straight? I think it’s off a couple of teeth because the passenger side tire turns far enough to rub.

 

[RCP Phx]

The steering arm and shaft are "indexed" so it only goes on one way!

 

[TDoggs]

That’s good to know BEFORE I take it off........I guess there’s no need since I can’t move it a couple of teeth.

 

[TDoggs]

So what is allowing the tire to turn too far to one side? And it’s only on the passenger side.

 

[burntkat]

I got the new upgraded tie rod today. That thing is a beast compared to the stock one.

Question. Would the pitman arm be pointing straight back when the wheels are straight? I think it’s off a couple of teeth because the passenger side tire turns far enough to rub.

Yes it should be. This is where your steering wheel being straight happens. Of course it also affects the other adjustment. If you've raised your Jeep and haven't swapped out the trackbar for an adjustable unit, you will not have this measurement perfect.

The pitman itself isn't able to be clocked just a few teeth (without some minor surgery). There are indexing splines on the arm itself where it engages the box. So you can't just remove it and turn it a tooth or two to get it back in line (nor should you have to, ordinarily). If you wanted to go that route, though, it's not terribly difficult. Yank the pitman and file out the notches (it will become immediately obvious when you have it in hand). On reassembly, put some antiseize on the splines to ease further maintenance.

 

[burntkat]

So what is allowing the tire to turn too far to one side? And it’s only on the passenger side.

You probably have it sussed out already- the alignment is a bit off.

I assume you are running non-stock wheels?

You can address the "too far and rubbing" issue by adding a few washers under the steering stop. Look for a bolt with a nut welded to it, on the front side (IIRC, might be wrong) of the knuckle. That's the bit that makes the positive stop before you get rubbing, in factory config.

Otherwise, and assuming you're lifted- the *proper* way to fix this is to go go an upgraded, adjustable, trackbar.

Depending on lift, one can bandaid it by drilling a new hole in the trackbar axle side mount. I understand money is tight and I've done it myself- but IRO and others make an adjustable trackbar that is BEEF (along the same lines as your old tierod and the new part you just installed) and will allow you to resolve this issue and move to another. Also helps with the DW

Due to PB's holding pics for ransom, can't post my pic of the stering stop - so here's a link to a Google Images search: https://tinyurl.com/y9mv2tga... and it so happens to provide a link to the Kevin's OffRoad article on adjusting steering stops.

Be careful when removing that stop. Turn the nut against the knuckle, NOT the head of the bolt, or you WILL sheer it off. I need to fix my wife's ZJ's stops. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[TDoggs]

You probably have it sussed out already- the alignment is a bit off. I have yet to put it back together. That will happen tonight.

I assume you are running non-stock wheels? Nope. All Stock

You can address the "too far and rubbing" issue by adding a few washers under the steering stop. Look for a bolt with a nut welded to it, on the front side (IIRC, might be wrong) of the knuckle. That's the bit that makes the positive stop before you get rubbing, in factory config.

Thanks! That's what I'll do!

Otherwise, and assuming you're lifted- the *proper* way to fix this is to go go an upgraded, adjustable, trackbar.

Depending on lift, one can bandaid it by drilling a new hole in the trackbar axle side mount. I understand money is tight and I've done it myself- but IRO and others make an adjustable trackbar that is BEEF (along the same lines as your old tierod and the new part you just installed) and will allow you to resolve this issue and move to another. Also helps with the DW

Due to PB's holding pics for ransom, can't post my pic of the stering stop - so here's a link to a Google Images search: https://tinyurl.com/y9mv2tga... and it so happens to provide a link to the Kevin's OffRoad article on adjusting steering stops.

Be careful when removing that stop. Turn the nut against the knuckle, NOT the head of the bolt, or you WILL sheer it off. I need to fix my wife's ZJ's stops. Thanks for reminding me. __________________

 

[TDoggs]

Got her all buttoned up last night and aligned today.

Took her out on the Hwy where I experienced death wobble the most and I couldn't get it to wobble at all!

I hope it lasts.....

1. New shocks

2. All new tie rod ends drag link, upgraded tie rod

3. HD sway bar bushing with larger bolt.

4. New steering stabilizer

Now for the rear.........

 

[burntkat]

Got her all buttoned up last night and aligned today.

Took her out on the Hwy where I experienced death wobble the most and I couldn't get it to wobble at all!

I hope it lasts.....

1. New shocks

2. All new tie rod ends drag link, upgraded tie rod

3. HD sway bar bushing with larger bolt.

4. New steering stabilizer

Now for the rear.........

Outstanding! Glad you got this done.

I'm about ready to deadline my son's Jeep till he makes time to align it. It's close, darn close- but not right. He's been very busy with school, afterschool, and work, and we are entering the rainy season. I may have to pull his coil wire and not give it back to him till he tells me he has time!

Did you do the DIY alignment, or have it done by a shop?

EDIT: I see you upgraded the bolt on the trackbar- (you said swaybar- I think you are confused? Trackbar is one bar, going from left framerail to one point on the axle on right coil bucket vicinity. Swaybar is bolted ahead of the axle on the frame, and has an arm going to each side. Swaybar is much less likely to cause DW). But anyway- I hope you used a Grade 8 bolt?

 

[TDoggs]

Outstanding! Glad you got this done.

Did you do the DIY alignment, or have it done by a shop?

EDIT: I see you upgraded the bolt on the trackbar- (you said swaybar- I think you are confused? Trackbar is one bar, going from left framerail to one point on the axle on right coil bucket vicinity. Swaybar is bolted ahead of the axle on the frame, and has an arm going to each side. Swaybar is much less likely to cause DW). But anyway- I hope you used a Grade 8 bolt?

I had it done by a shop around the corner from my house.

And you are correct. I meant the track bar bushing. I used the "kit" from Clayton Off Road

https://www.claytonoffroad.com/tjljxjzj_hd_track_bar_bolt_kit

 

[TDoggs]

Got springs and shackles coming and I'm bleeding the brakes tonight.

One I get started, there's no stopping me........:gee:

 

[burntkat]

Have fun with the leaf springs.. - Evil chuckle-

 

[Rob Mayercik]

I'm with BurntKat on this - to borrow a phrase, "XJ leaf spring bolts are the ultimate power in the universe". If yours haven't been disturbed in a long time, expect the fight of your life getting those buggers out. (also look in recent threads for one by EcoMike about his experience, where an impact gun that should by all rights have twisted the hangar off the frame just bounced off those bloody things like a Nerf hammer).

I think a lot of the problem is the design of the hangars - there's a bulge out toward the springs from the side that lays against the frame rail, and the nut is welded to that bulge (so it's hidden in between the frame and the hangar). The bottom of that cavity is sealed/welded to the frame; it likely fills up from stuff wicking past the bolt and/or coming in around the top, and can't drain out.

The only real way to access the nuts if they break loose inside there is to cut the bulge open from below and hope there's enough left for a wrench to get on (otherwise, prepare to cut the bolts, and from EcoMike said, that's a truly torturous job in its own right).

When I did my leaves in June, it was with the help of a professional mechanic. They'd been in through 15 years of Rust Belt weather/road salt/wheeling, and it made getting those bolts out an absolute nightmare. He said those bolts put up a fight the likes of which he'd rarely seen.

I certainly hope you have an easier time of it than some of us did, but for this job I highly recommend assuming the worst case and get new bolts/nuts for all points on the springs/shackles before you start the job - more than likely, you're going to need them (I didn't change shackles, but I replaced all four spring bolts)

Best of luck, we're all rooting for you.

 

[burntkat]

Rob nailed it. I broke a 3/8" breaker bar (an actual breaker bar), 3/8 extension, and a few ratchets trying to get mine out. I have a 3/4" impact which didn't even budge them. I spent a couple days trying to get those two bolts out. I have advice posted in my thread.

 

[TDoggs]

Rob nailed it. I broke a 3/8" breaker bar (an actual breaker bar), 3/8 extension, and a few ratchets trying to get mine out. I have a 3/4" impact which didn't even budge them. I spent a couple days trying to get those two bolts out. I have advice posted in my thread.

I'm probably going to jinx myself by telling you this BUT, I put a jack under the end of the breaker bar (saw it on "bleepin Jeep") and the passenger side front spring bolt is loose enough to muscle by hand in 10 minuets......

I sure hope the rest are that easy.......:gee::clap:

 

[Rob Mayercik]

It's sure encouraging that you got one loose, but there's still 5 more.

Think happy thoughts!

 

[burntkat]

I'm probably going to jinx myself by telling you this BUT, I put a jack under the end of the breaker bar (saw it on "bleepin Jeep") and the passenger side front spring bolt is loose enough to muscle by hand in 10 minuets......

I sure hope the rest are that easy.......:gee::clap:

-looks for the "flip the bird" emoticon-

;P

Lucky, lucky bastard.

(I hope it holds out for you. Asshole. )

I kid, of course. I spent something like 60 hours (not exagerating, actually under-estimating) putting the lift on my son's 97. Granted it was a bespoke lift (little of this, little of that-- JKS ACOS, ZJU coils, spring packs, shocks, BPEs, and so on all from half a dozen different manufacturers), but that wasn't the issue. Every fastener involved either sheered or was seized.. Nothing came off easy. Tip for you- if you can get to the nut side of the issue, take a MAPP gas torch (get it at Lowe's, Walmart, etc) and heat the nut till it's glowing a bit. It will come off much easier. Of course, replace that hardware after- you've damaged the temper.

The upper shock mount bolts in the rear are likely to sheer. Use an air hammer (or a 1/4" extension and hammer, but air hammer is best) and zap them out of the top. Then take replacement hardware (I think I used 1/4-20), wind a piece of safety wire around the threads leaving a tail long enough to feed through the reinforcement structure in that area (you'll see when you're there). Poke the tail through the hole and pull till the wire disengages. Easy peasy.

While there, take the rear swaybar brackets (if you have them) and use them as BPEs for the upper shock mounts, and never deal with those bolts again.. Toss the joke of a rear sway bar. While yes it may make some difference in body roll (highly doubt it, as I can bend it by hand!), I can't tell a difference driving my son's XJ at 4" higher than stock.

 

[TDoggs]

-looks for the "flip the bird" emoticon-

;P

Lucky, lucky bastard.

(I hope it holds out for you. Asshole. )

I kid, of course. I spent something like 60 hours (not exagerating, actually under-estimating) putting the lift on my son's 97. Granted it was a bespoke lift (little of this, little of that-- JKS ACOS, ZJU coils, spring packs, shocks, BPEs, and so on all from half a dozen different manufacturers), but that wasn't the issue. Every fastener involved either sheered or was seized.. Nothing came off easy. Tip for you- if you can get to the nut side of the issue, take a MAPP gas torch (get it at Lowe's, Walmart, etc) and heat the nut till it's glowing a bit. It will come off much easier. Of course, replace that hardware after- you've damaged the temper.

The upper shock mount bolts in the rear are likely to sheer. Use an air hammer (or a 1/4" extension and hammer, but air hammer is best) and zap them out of the top. Then take replacement hardware (I think I used 1/4-20), wind a piece of safety wire around the threads leaving a tail long enough to feed through the reinforcement structure in that area (you'll see when you're there). Poke the tail through the hole and pull till the wire disengages. Easy peasy.

While there, take the rear swaybar brackets (if you have them) and use them as BPEs for the upper shock mounts, and never deal with those bolts again.. Toss the joke of a rear sway bar. While yes it may make some difference in body roll (highly doubt it, as I can bend it by hand!), I can't tell a difference driving my son's XJ at 4" higher than stock.

Why, you !@#%^&^&#$#~$!#^&%&^*(%$#%@%

I have 1 side installed and I'm freaking spent......

 

[burntkat]

Why, you !@#%^&^&#$#~$!#^&%&^*(%$#%@%

I have 1 side installed and I'm freaking spent......

-chuckle-
"Welcome to the party, pal!"