Presidential election and land use issues

[karstic]

You people need to take a look at your priorities. If wheeling is your number one priority, then I pity the pathetic life you must lead. Sure, it is a hobby and passion for most of us, but my family, health, job, and personal life come way before wheeling. You need to look at those priorities and weigh where each candidate stand on them and how their decisions will effect you before deciding to elect one or the other.

No, it's not my number one priority but it's one of the freedom's that I enjoy. It's one of those things that makes life enjoyable, put's meaning into my 40-60 hr work week, something I enjoy with my friends and family from nieces and nephews to my in-laws. I don't want the government to spoon feed me. I don't want the government to treat me like a :rattle: I don't want to live in a society where I'm spoon fed everything by the government at the sacrifice of my personal liberties.

Think about it

I suggest you do the same.

 

[SteelblueSteve]

Morals and values? Sorry, I can't stop laughing. Dodge draft, go AWOL last month of duty, have no problem with my V.P. working for a company that did and still does business with the government of Iran, let oil corps. get rich by charging whatever they want regardless of the price of crude, O.K. the execution of a retarded man (mental capacity of a twelve year old) while governor of Texas, run every company he's ever been associated with into the ground...... the morals and values just don't stop. I've got to get off my soap box. I've ****ed all over it from laughing. I love living in a country where we all can have a debate like this, though. It's made possible by both political sides. I may not agree with what you're saying but I'll die for your right to say it, and I'm voting for Kerry. I gotta go work on my Jeep now so I can get all my wheeling before Kerry shuts down all the public land after he's elected. If John McCain were running I'd vote for him. Is there a Democrat you Republicans would vote for? I'm asking because here in Illinois we have been subjected to the fine Mr. Alan Keyes for senate. He's totally off base on so many subjects and not from our state. I know, neither was Hillary from New York. I just think it's sad that either party could parade out a candidate and someone would vote for him/her just because they consider themselves part of that party . Keyes is behind by 50 points but I can't see how anyone could vote for him. Sorry, I'm rambling, taking a break from the garage . Good luck on tuesday and don't kill me if you meet me on a trail.

 

[Willis]

If you will notice, I left names out of my post for the reason that either situation might apply to anyone, be it Bush, Kerry, Nader, Peter, Paul or Mary.

I've thought about it. You'll notice my post is not one sided, like all of yours are.

So many of you are such big raging Bush supporters, that you refuse to see anything is wrong with him. Most of you that are yelling and screaming about this take the stand that if you are a 4 wheeler, then you have to be a republican. Guess what? You can be a republican and vote for a democrat.

Most of us will never see eye to eye on every subject with any presidential candidate. The best thing to do is to pick the lesser of the evils.

My post was not meant to sway votes one way or another like many presidential post you will read on these forums. Instead, it was to help people realize they need to educate themselves on more than this one aspect of the presidential candidate's agenda.

Here's some light reading just for fun: http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html

Oh ya, Bush sold 155 acres in Colorado for $5 per acre a while back. Is it better if our land is taken away by the Democrats or sold off by the Republicans?

Playing devil's advocate now,
Steve

 

[Yucca-Man]

Colorado land at $5 an acre? That must have been quite awhile back. Yes, you can be a Republican and still vote for a Democrat; I've done it before and may even do it again, but there's no friggin' way I'll vote for a bastard like John Kerry...start with his traitorous actions in Vietnam and afterward and come forward from there.

BTW - John Kerry's camp likes to make it out as though George Bush ditched one or several months of obligated Reserve time. John Kerry had several YEARS of obligated time that he never once attended drills for...

 

[Sarge]

Is the BLM in Colorado? I know there are sections of the BLM managed land you can "buy and sell" for $5 an acre. Way out in nowhere land, like middle of the Devils Playground.

Sarge

 

[XJZ]

Land use is only one piece of a huge pie. Anyone who votes for someone based on only one aspect of their agenda is a moron. You should know where all parties stand on every issue before voting.

Maybe a candidate will let you drive anywhere and everywhere you want, but because the price of gas is through the roof, you can't. Or the they screwed heath care up so much, your work could not afford to cover you, and you get injured while 4 wheeling causing you to have a medical bill over $10k and you have to sell the Jeep to pay for it.

Maybe the other candidate will restrict where you wheel, but create more jobs and boost the economy to where you now are getting paid more so you can take more vacations to wheeling destinations like Moab or the Rubicon. Gas prices go down, so driving to your wheeling destination is not so expensive.

To me, it is completely asinine to say "I am voting for so-and-so because of this one reason, I don't care where he stands on anything else". That is basically what many of you are saying (maybe not in this thread, but on the numerous other threads).

What about the right to choose? Your daughter gets slipped roofies and gets date raped and gets pregnant, but "someone" has outlawed abortions.

Why not let the gays get married? They already let them adopt, so it's ok to let them adopt a child and raise it in a family where the parents are not married?

I don't have kids, and I'm not gay, so they don't affect me, but they are still issues (along with many others, those are just the easy ones) that need to be resolved.

I don't think either candidate has a good plan for social security.

Health care sucks, and so do both parties thoughts on it.

You people need to take a look at your priorities. If wheeling is your number one priority, then I pity the pathetic life you must lead. Sure, it is a hobby and passion for most of us, but my family, health, job, and personal life come way before wheeling. You need to look at those priorities and weigh where each candidate stand on them and how their decisions will effect you before deciding to elect one or the other.

Think about it,
Steve

How does someone even respond to that?

Your arguments are based on your fluffy little fairy tales.

Almost Kerry-like.

 

[junkxj]

Land use is only one piece of a huge pie. Anyone who votes for someone based on only one aspect of their agenda is a moron. You should know where all parties stand on every issue before voting.

Maybe a candidate will let you drive anywhere and everywhere you want, but because the price of gas is through the roof, you can't. Or the they screwed heath care up so much, your work could not afford to cover you, and you get injured while 4 wheeling causing you to have a medical bill over $10k and you have to sell the Jeep to pay for it.

Maybe the other candidate will restrict where you wheel, but create more jobs and boost the economy to where you now are getting paid more so you can take more vacations to wheeling destinations like Moab or the Rubicon. Gas prices go down, so driving to your wheeling destination is not so expensive.

To me, it is completely asinine to say "I am voting for so-and-so because of this one reason, I don't care where he stands on anything else". That is basically what many of you are saying (maybe not in this thread, but on the numerous other threads).

What about the right to choose? Your daughter gets slipped roofies and gets date raped and gets pregnant, but "someone" has outlawed abortions.

Why not let the gays get married? They already let them adopt, so it's ok to let them adopt a child and raise it in a family where the parents are not married?

I don't have kids, and I'm not gay, so they don't affect me, but they are still issues (along with many others, those are just the easy ones) that need to be resolved.

I don't think either candidate has a good plan for social security.

Health care sucks, and so do both parties thoughts on it.

You people need to take a look at your priorities. If wheeling is your number one priority, then I pity the pathetic life you must lead. Sure, it is a hobby and passion for most of us, but my family, health, job, and personal life come way before wheeling. You need to look at those priorities and weigh where each candidate stand on them and how their decisions will effect you before deciding to elect one or the other.

Think about it,
Steve

Yes, you are complete right! I am not saying there is one thing in the election that should determine the results. I am just posting the most important thing to me at this time. Every thing you have said is right, it just is not something that affects my desicion at this time. Again, you are completely right, just not what worrys me at this time, is this not the idea what this country what founded on?

 

[Z22_Z33]

Simple as this in my mind
Kerry=more govt'
Bush= more people control

Huh? Wait I thought the republicans were more for corpartions, and the democrats were more for people control.

 

[Z22_Z33]

So its better that our grand childern or their grand childern cant enjoy the enviroment? Becuase instead of taking steps now to stop its slow destruction, and for what? To play?! This artilce it very one sided.


Isnt it odd that we are all driving a Jeep that in the late 70's would have fallen under this catagory "Wants immediate crackdown on car emissions, which can jeopardize the availability of future models of light trucks, SUVs and Jeep-type vehicles."

This point right now is no longer valid. As we are all in the group and the XJ is a jeep that should have never existed according to this claim!

 

[Z22_Z33]

John Kerry’s position on the environment, access, and motorized use:
* Wants immediate crackdown on car emissions, which can jeopardize the availability of future models of light trucks, SUVs and Jeep-type vehicles.

(XJ, Wrangler and Grand shouldnt exist at the moment.)

* He has one of the most pro-environmentalist records in the Senate.

(Whats wrong with that? Keep the enviroment the way it is?)

* He supports the “Clean Power Act” with substantially more stringent limits on emissions for greenhouse gases, despite the fact that the global warming theory has been disproved by credible peer reviewed science.

(What sources? Ok so its disapproved, global warming can not and will not happen. So if I breath this air in I'll be okay, is it healty?)

* Plans a “Restore America’s Waters’” campaign that would, among other things, instruct all federal agencies that net losses of wetlands will not be tolerated, despite other considerations that agencies must legally make.

(Dont know much about this. But its okay to destroy animals homes?)

* Did not vote on Pres. Bush’s Healthy Forests Initiative (Healthy Forest Restoration Act) and later said he would have voted against the initiative had he voted.

(Dont know a thing about this. Is this the one that supports logging of public lands? If so, its alright if we go wheeling only to find the area we go is bare?)

* Supported Clinton’s Roadless Rule and has stated he would “revisit” the rule.

(Why do we need to build roads deep into the woods, where we wouldnt really be able to go anyways.)

* Promises to end the logging of old-growth trees on public lands, despite any considerations to the contrary that the health of the forest may depend on thinning of old-growth trees.

(How is going to make sure that not to much is taken out? How is logging the same as thinnning? What is the line between thinning and takeing everything? How can only a few trees in an area be taken out?? Its public land right? So we all own it, so that means the money that is made from logging goes into my pocket, right? So each week I get a paycheck!)

George Bush’s position on the environment, access, and motorized use:
* Opposes mandatory cuts in carbon dioxide and does not support the Kyoto treaty.

(Can we breath carbon dioxide? What health benefits are there to it? So while everyone else is cutting back we dont need to?)

* Initiated a “clear skies initiative” to replace the “Clean Air Act” with a market-based system to encourage companies to cut emissions voluntarily.

(Market based system? So we are going to leave how much crap goes into the air to the companies? Who holds them responsible if to much is realesed? Arent companies in the market to make money not spend it?)

* Passed the Healthy Forests Initiative to thin forests to reduce the risk of wildfire.

(How is this going to be done? Arent there trees miles upon miles into a forest how is a truck and a crew of people going to get there? What will this do for us wheeling? Will the roads be closed to us?)

*Suspended, then proposed replacing, the Clinton Roadless Rule. The proposed replacement would leave road building and other roadless area management decisions to the states.

(Nothing wrong with that. Dont we already do that? National forests are part of the fedral gov't so that should be left up to us the people.)

* 2005 budget will address his promises to eliminate forest and park maintenance backlog.

(About time somene adresses this. Well will this adress it, or fix it? Better to be fixed then just looked at right?)


On your market, ready set and type. Let the fun begen

 

[red91]

Guess what? You can be a republican and vote for a democrat.

This statement is FALSE in relationship to the Washington State Primaries which clear states by "LAW" that you must vote your party ticket.

Welcome to hell Gentlemen...the show will be starting in 8 minutes...

 

[DrMoab]

issues biggest to me.
1:Land use issues. I can think of at least 50 roads and trails that I have been able to drive on for ever that are now closed...for no other reason then some a$$ hole in Mass. thinks it should be this way. THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!!!
2: The right to keep my guns. I do alot of shooting and hunting. I don't need some bastard like Kerry comming in and taking that right away from me.
3: Taxes. I don't know about the rest of you but I kind of liked having that 600.00 dollar check I got a few years ago.

There are more reasons I would never ever vote for Kerry...much less any democrat but those are the biggies to me.

You can say that things in Iraq would have been different if Kerry was in but how do you know? He has changed his mind so many times its hard to say what he would have done had he been in power.

 

[CW]

Z22_Z33, you do know you can keep typing on your original post and you don't need to make three consecutive posts right?
As for not seeing anything wrong with Bush, I see lots wrong just less about him irritates me. It's like the last episode of South Park, we are choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. There will never be a candidate that I would be completely happy voting for, the people on the balet are not the best people for the job they are the ones with the most money.

Mccain '08 :us:

 

[Willis]

How does someone even respond to that?

Your arguments are based on your fluffy little fairy tales.

Almost Kerry-like.

Did I even put names with what I wrote? No, it was HYPOTHETICAL to show my point that much more matters in this election than land use, which everyone seems to dwell on.

My point was to get educated and vote for the person who represents you best.

 

[Willis]

This statement is FALSE in relationship to the Washington State Primaries which clear states by "LAW" that you must vote your party ticket.

Welcome to hell Gentlemen...the show will be starting in 8 minutes...

That was just the primary, you did not elect anyone into office. You can now vote for which every candidate you like.

 

[Willis]

Colorado land at $5 an acre? That must have been quite awhile back. Yes, you can be a Republican and still vote for a Democrat; I've done it before and may even do it again, but there's no friggin' way I'll vote for a bastard like John Kerry...start with his traitorous actions in Vietnam and afterward and come forward from there.

BTW - John Kerry's camp likes to make it out as though George Bush ditched one or several months of obligated Reserve time. John Kerry had several YEARS of obligated time that he never once attended drills for...

It was in the last 4 years, I know that. It was in Crested Butte where 1/10th of an acre goes for $100,000. It was sold to a mining company. That company can do whatever it wants with the land, build resorts, condos, housing developments, or just subdivide it and sell off each 1/10th acre for $100,000, turning their $775 investment into a $155,000,000 return.

That was the first of 55 sales that were scheduled. I don't know if any others went through or not. There may have been an uproar and the Bush admin may have rethought the sales.

 

[Z22_Z33]

This statement is FALSE in relationship to the Washington State Primaries which clear states by "LAW" that you must vote your party ticket.

Welcome to hell Gentlemen...the show will be starting in 8 minutes...

Thank you very much politcal parties, and the US supreme court.
(Oh yeah for those that think I'm a dumbass, I was being sarcastic.)

 

[red91]

Thank you very much politcal parties, and the US supreme court.
(Oh yeah for those that think I'm a dumbass, I was being sarcastic.)

I could really WREAK HAVOC with this, but I wont...

 

[red91]

That was just the primary, you did not elect anyone into office. You can now vote for which every candidate you like.

NO, but what if their was a candidate that I liked that was not in my party. Why couldn't I have picked them instead of being steered by the government?

I call B.S....Let us pick who we want and leave us the F alone...

 

[Darky]

Morals and values? Sorry, I can't stop laughing. Dodge draft, go AWOL last month of duty, have no problem with my V.P. working for a company that did and still does business with the government of Iran, let oil corps. get rich by charging whatever they want regardless of the price of crude, O.K. the execution of a retarded man (mental capacity of a twelve year old) while governor of Texas, run every company he's ever been associated with into the ground...... the morals and values just don't stop. I've got to get off my soap box. I've ****ed all over it from laughing. I love living in a country where we all can have a debate like this, though. It's made possible by both political sides. I may not agree with what you're saying but I'll die for your right to say it, and I'm voting for Kerry. I gotta go work on my Jeep now so I can get all my wheeling before Kerry shuts down all the public land after he's elected. If John McCain were running I'd vote for him. Is there a Democrat you Republicans would vote for? I'm asking because here in Illinois we have been subjected to the fine Mr. Alan Keyes for senate. He's totally off base on so many subjects and not from our state. I know, neither was Hillary from New York. I just think it's sad that either party could parade out a candidate and someone would vote for him/her just because they consider themselves part of that party . Keyes is behind by 50 points but I can't see how anyone could vote for him. Sorry, I'm rambling, taking a break from the garage . Good luck on tuesday and don't kill me if you meet me on a trail.

Cheney worked for Halliburton, left the company to pursue his political career, and has no ties to them now except that they still owe him some of his pay check. You can't either responsible for what a company does while looking to make money. This goes back to capitalism, free trade, all that.
Bush can't stop the oil companies from charging what they want, that's called capitalism. He never dodged the draft, he enlisted in the Air National Guard, yes he probably did that to avoid being drafted but he still went into the service.