Wonky turning radius

[Junkhead]

6.5" RC lift, 33x12.5 tires, and D30.

Noticed when I was wheeling yesterday that I could turn left nearly as tight as the TJs I was with but I had to make 3 point turns to the right. Terribly annoying. Today I got an alignment done and they lengthened the drag link to even it out but now Its opposite, just not as dramatic. I figure if I shorten the d-link a hair I'll get it even, but I want that amazing radius both ways. How would I go about getting more travel lock to lock? I have 4" backspace wheels and spacers so rubbing isn't an issue.

 

[NCCherokee]

TJs have a shorter wheelbase.

Also I'm surprised you don't have rubbing at least on the arms. I have 3.75" back spacing with 33x12.50 tires and my limiting factor is the tires hitting the LCAs. Are you hitting the steering stops? Have you extended them? Did you install the lift or buy the jeep built? PO may have extended the steering stops.

 

[sidriptide]

steering stops may be set incorrectly, but most people dont touch them. more likely needs a trackbar adjustment to center the axle better, and more tweaking on the steering afterward.

 

[Junkhead]

I purchased the Jeep pre-built but worn out and horribly put together, but for a low price point. I've spent the last month rebuilding and replacing parts and its just about finished.

The alignment shop lengthened the drag link 1/2 to 3/4 inch and its close to even both ways now. The short drag link gave me more angle to the left but couldn't push the tie rod far enough to the right. I'm assuming I need to find a longer pitman arm with the same drop to get a little more travel out of the tie rod.

The RC long arm lift I have installed has high clearance lower arms to prevent rubbing. Not sure if the wheel spacers are 1" or 1.5" but that drops my backspacing to roughly 3" which gives me plenty of clearance.

How would I go about checking the stops, and what are they set at stock?

 

[Junkhead]

TJ's do have a shorter wheelbase but only about 8 inches difference. The increase in steering angle to the left almost made up for that, but at the expense of turning to the right.

 

[Junkhead]

Checked the stops and they haven't been lengthened, and they are covered in dry mud and haven't been touched so they aren't the limiting component. No rubbing anywhere either (again, dry mud) so that means it has to be the stops inside the steering box, and a longer pitman arm is my solution.

I'm headed to the junkyard tomorrow and I'm going to try and hunt down a longer arm to get that last little bit of angle at full lock and it looks like WJ/ZJ arms are about perfect but there are others. My only concern now is clearance between the steering damper and track bar since the IRO double sheer is so damn beefy and its fairly tight quarters already. Does anyone know if there is an alternative way to mount the damper or is a more compact/lower profile unit available somewhere?


Edit: My damper is mounted to the drag link, but I've seen pictures with it mounted to the tie rod. Is there any difference between the two or is it a preference thing?

 

[scottmcneal]

Sounds like you need to center your axle. Measure the center of tire to inner fender next to coil and them do same on other side. Just make sure when you do this that you measure it behind the coil on both, towards the rear axle.

Then let us know how far it is off.

HTH

 

[Junkhead]

Just measured and its shifted to the passenger side by 1/8 inch, I wouldn't be surprised if it shifted the 1/16 I need with me in the drivers seat. So again its back to the pitman arm or I have a faulty steering box. Who knows, I may have a perfectly normal turning radius right now but there is definitely room for improvement. Headed to the junk yard today for other parts and I'll grab an arm or two and take before and after pictures when I get it swapped over.

 

[zachandandy]

A wagoneer pitman arm will help you get a little more steering angle. Just remember to be light on the throttle at full lock, as that is when your u-joints are most vulnerable.

 

[rockclimber]

Is your steering wheel centered with the tires pointed straight ahead?

That is the only thing that the drag link adjustment affects.

What you need to do is turn to full lock and get out and see what is binding.

My bet is that your pitman arm is off by a spline, causing the box to run out of travel.

 

[Junkhead]

If you shorten the drag link one full rotation of the steering wheel the tires can still be straight ahead, and the wheel centered. Problem is you will end up with one full rotation more to the left and one less to the right. Thats about where I was before the alignment shop adjusted it and that extra rotation to the left is why I had a tighter turning radius. Now that everything is centered up I'm looking to get that extra travel back both ways and thats why I'm looking for a longer arm. Its certainly possible that the drop pitman thats installed is actually shorter than stock, but with the clearance issue I don't think so.

 

[rockclimber]

If you shorten the drag link one full rotation of the steering wheel the tires can still be straight ahead, and the wheel centered. Problem is you will end up with one full rotation more to the left and one less to the right. Thats about where I was before the alignment shop adjusted it and that extra rotation to the left is why I had a tighter turning radius. Now that everything is centered up I'm looking to get that extra travel back both ways and thats why I'm looking for a longer arm. Its certainly possible that the drop pitman thats installed is actually shorter than stock, but with the clearance issue I don't think so.

If you are running a stock axle, you want a stock pitman arm.

Running a longer pitman will give you even wierder Steering.

Center your steering wheel with the tires straight ahead. You don't need an alignment shop for that.

Then turn to full lock and see what is binding. If the linkage is hitting something, you will see it, if you are running out of steering and nothing is hitting, your pitman is on wrong.

Pics would help.

 

[Junkhead]

Here are a few pictures so you guys can see what I'm talking about. All were taken at full lock each way.

As you can see I still have plenty of clearance to the control arms, almost 1/2" to the steering stops on both sides, pitman arm isn't hitting the sway bar, and the last picture shows the clearance between the steering damper and the track bar. I don't think anything is wrong with my steering, its just obvious that I'm leaving some steering angle on the table. That 1/2" at the knuckle translates to a lot more angle at the tread.

 

[rockclimber]

Disconnect the drag link from the pitman arm, and turn the wheel. See if you can get the pitman arm to run into the sway bar.

 

[zachandandy]

The longer pitman arm is the route I would go. I'm not sure what was meant by the "weirder steering" comment, but it's a lever arm so the only effect would be a slightly lower steering speed, so slight I doubt you'd notice it. In theory the distance from center of ball joint to the steering attachment at the knuckle should be equal to the pitman arm length, but I believe that is just to keep the amount of travel equal. Aside from trying to modify the stops inside the steering box, I don't see any other way of increasing throw.

 

[Demonoid369]

.

My bet is that your pitman arm is off by a spline, causing the box to run out of travel.

X2 that's what I'm thinking, the fact that you stated that one direction you can get full steering but not the other means the pitman arm is on wrong, maybe a spline or two. Don't get a longer pitman arm till you have at least attempted this and tried.

 

[Junkhead]

First and fourth post state that the drag link was set too short, and lengthening it evened out the steering and I have the same throw each way now. It does need to be adjusted slightly to center the wheel perfectly but I'm waiting until I finish monkeying around with everything since its about 1/8 turn off and doesn't bother me.

I did more searching and found a lot of info on Pirate4x4 and I'll be ordering a new WJ drop arm from Rusty's after I get a few measurements from them. I'll have to ream out the d-link taper to fit my full size ends but It should get me what I want.

 

[rockclimber]

Did you check the throw of the box without the drag link? I'm confident that your pitman is off by a whole splined section

Do that before you waste your money on a WJ arm

Having a pitman arm that is longer than the distance from the center of the balljoints to the steering arm on the knuckle, aka longer than stock, will change your turning radius, as well as the way it turns, basically, you will be turning the tires further than the steering wheel.

Going slow it may not make a difference, but at speed, aka the freeway you will feel like you are over correcting every time you touch the steering wheel.

 

[zachandandy]

Is nobody reading what the guy posts, HE HAS EQUAL STEERING IN EACH DIRECTION. He stated he's a half inch short of the steering stops in each direction. There is no way it's a spline issue at the box. Could be someone swapped a Durango box into the xj with the internal stops? The longer pitman arm will slightly change the ratio on the steering, but it won't be all that dramatic.